What Series of Sherlock is Your Favourite?

[Shadow Dweller]

Oh yes, bring Irene back, she's fun. ^^ Dark tone is no problem but pleasepleaseplease don't make it a 'abandon all ye logic here' like season 4. Also, no dumbing down characters for the sake of 'being human'. For heaven's sake, they are supposed to have brain and can use it!

[gerry]

Did you Iike Irene character Shadow?

[bedelia1984]

What I mean is, hope for episodes similar to S1 - S2, but with the new more empathetic Sherlock.

 

I would really like to see that.

 

Maybe a few years gap isn't such a bad thing. It probably gets over the aftermath of Mary's death and hopefully leaves everybody in a better place, where the focus can return to the cases.

 

I just hope that the progression from Mangussen to Eurus doesn't mean a season 5 would see an even worse villain. I don't think they have ever managed to top Moriarty, and I don't really want them to try any more. I wish they would focus on some other kind of mystery or a more sympathetic villain (granted, maybe they think they did so with Eurus).

[Shadow Dweller]

Did you Iike Irene character Shadow?

More like she have potential to be developed into someone who keep toeing between the shades of grey as a well-rounded character. We already see way too much insane villains the theme becomes over-used. Time to focus on cleverness instead of mental problems.

[gerry]

If that's what Moffat could keep Irene to, cleverness, I wouldn't mind but he seems more keen on it being some kind of love story and then he loses me.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I agree, would like to the villains to be more -- what, normal? Well, more relatable, I guess. That, or less involved in the story -- they just commit the crime and then go hide in the shadows till Sherlock reveals them.

 

Most of Conan Doyle's villains were like that, weren't they? A bit clever but not really psychopathic. And/or not such a prominent character.

[Shadow Dweller]

If that's what Moffat could keep Irene to, cleverness, I wouldn't mind but he seems more keen on it being some kind of love story and then he loses me.

Feminine wiles is a perfectly acceptable weapon and Irene wielded it nicely. ^^

[T.o.b.y]

Funny, I thought series 4 was similar in tone to series 3. At least more than series 3 was to series 1 and 2. At least, for me, series 3 was a much bigger shock than 4 and took more getting used to. When S4 began, I initially had a very positive response; I remember sitting there giggling along and saying "oh, goody, they've found their stride again". This lasted until A.J. appeared, then my mood soured and hit rock bottom with Mary's death scene.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that in all, I don't hate series 4. There are some scenes that I wish had been done differently and some elements that I am not happy with, but having gotten so used to 3 that I actually like it now, liking 4 wasn't so difficult.

 

I do not want another series and am not sure about a special. For me, it is better to have a finished product with beginning, middle and end that my mind can turn around and around until it's found a way to read the story that feels right. And in spite of all its faults, the last episode of Sherlock left me feeling very contented and relieved because I felt that all the really important aspects had been handled well and so many other potential mistakes that I had been dreading were avoided.

 

For me, the show is most satisfying if I focus on Sherlock the character and look at everything else in relation to him. I am happy to do that. He's still my number 1 fictional crush.

[Arcadia]

Too much something always lowered its value on the market. In plain speaking, too much unbelievable moments and ridiculous executions made the supposedly profound moments becomes cheap and tacky. Season 2's small moments, right sentences-gestures-dose made the 'emotional moments' shone like polished precious stones under the light of the audience's watchful eyes. Season 4 is the worst of the series so far, full with unbelievable plotholes that a train can easily drive through. If this is the final season then SHERLOCK had went out with a whimper. It used to have a good sense of pace and blend of genres but after watching season 4 for the first time the strongest impression that left is it is like watching a romcom made with small budget and noob staffing from all levels. FYI, a good sense of pace and ability to choose the correct words-sentences to use is not always can be taught so in light of the unpalatable mess that is most of season 4 I am questioning the competence of those in charge of the making of SHERLOCK. Unless what they really aimed is for the fans to demand at least another season to show that they still have it to create something that would be praised for a long time after its end.

This takes me right back to my first reaction to ep. 1 ... I thought it looked ... well, amateurish and cheap, compared to everything they'd done before, and that's what irks me about it, not the plot or the characters etc etc. It still mystifies me why they let that happen, because they were right back to true form in the next episode. The third slipped again. Weird, weird, weird.

 

There was a poll around here somewhere that I took, on rating the seasons from best to worst, and not surprisingly, at least at the time I saw it, Season 2 was rated best/favorite. What was surprising though was the remaining order; S3, S4 and S1. I would not have guessed that result.

[Shadow Dweller]

Switch the third and fourth rank, you'll get my vote.

[Arcadia]

I think I put S3 first, and S4 last. I think TRF best captures the essence of this show, and Scandal is their best episode ... but neither is my favorite, for reasons. I'm fondest of S3, for some reason. Maybe because it was the first one I saw in "real time," not as a rerun? Or maybe it's just the feels; I like the more vulnerable Sherlock better.

[gerry]

I've never liked every episode in a season since there's always a weaker episode that I don't watch again. The only episodes that I like start to finish without any qualms is TRF, TGG and ASIP. I will never understand why ASIB was considered such a masterpiece since there's parts of it that ring really false for me and the only episode of season 3 that I have re-watched is TEH.

 

I guess my rankings are TRF, season 1, TFP (except the end)/TLD and season 3.

[J.P.]

I'm in a funny position internally: There are things that I love and things that I hate, and nothing in between.

 

As I was in the high school, my Polish teacher often gave me two notes for my class works: the best and the second worst. She told me she couldn't just give a middle one, because the content was too good, and the spelling too bad.

 

That's how it feels like.

[Arcadia]

Funny, I thought series 4 was similar in tone to series 3. At least more than series 3 was to series 1 and 2. At least, for me, series 3 was a much bigger shock than 4 and took more getting used to. When S4 began, I initially had a very positive response; I remember sitting there giggling along and saying "oh, goody, they've found their stride again". This lasted until A.J. appeared, then my mood soured and hit rock bottom with Mary's death scene.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that in all, I don't hate series 4. There are some scenes that I wish had been done differently and some elements that I am not happy with, but having gotten so used to 3 that I actually like it now, liking 4 wasn't so difficult.

 

I do not want another series and am not sure about a special. For me, it is better to have a finished product with beginning, middle and end that my mind can turn around and around until it's found a way to read the story that feels right. And in spite of all its faults, the last episode of Sherlock left me feeling very contented and relieved because I felt that all the really important aspects had been handled well and so many other potential mistakes that I had been dreading were avoided.

 

For me, the show is most satisfying if I focus on Sherlock the character and look at everything else in relation to him. I am happy to do that. He's still my number 1 fictional crush.

Sorry, Toby, I missed seeing this before. I think this largely describes what I feel about it too, except that I absolutely loathed T6T the first time I saw it. I'm gonna watch it again when I have some free time, though, and I'll bet my reaction won't be that strong. But I never hated the entire season, because I thought TLD was brilliant ... and I think there's a lot to chew on in TFP, even though it has it's weaknesses, as do many other episodes. But I love the ending too, I don't mind if they leave the story there.

 

I think if they did do another season or a special, though, it wouldn't necessarily mess up the ending. I can easily see them picking up where they left off and acting as if S1-S4 never occurred; just run with the characters exactly where they left them, and go have an adventure. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

[Doe]

I am watching detective film for the first time. My son said "Good series. You must watch." We watched and I liked it.

 

Detective films are actually boring for me but the series are not. I don't like detective novels. I hope the series's novels are good.

 

The best episode is absolutely The Final Problem.

[Arcadia]

Can you tell us why it is your favorite, Doe?

 

I still don't know which one is my favorite, but sometimes I think it might be The Sign of Three, because I love that kind of non-linear story telling. And I think Sherlock is just so Sherlocky in that one. And because it's really funny.

 

But then other times I think it might be His Last Vow, because it stirs my emotions the most. And sometimes I like Study in Pink best, because Sherlock's so young and happy and energetic. I do like to watch him bounce around.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Putting the series in sequence, I would say S1, S2, TAB, S4, and S3.  Or something like that.  I put S1 ahead of S2 for the same reasons Gerry mentioned -- it had two unequivocally good episodes, whereas I'm pretty equivocal about Scandal.  I'm a little surprised to see that I put S4 ahead of S3, but of course that's still in flux.  My placement of TAB is somewhat arbitrary, since it's an episode rather than an entire series.

 

As for Series 4, my reaction to T6T was exactly the same as T.o.b.y's, except that I liked it all the way through.  Not that I liked them killing Mary, but I was a bit tired of waiting for that shoe to drop, so at least that's over with (more or less!).  And she died for a good cause, so I'm satisfied on that count.  I still don't understand why everyone likes TLD so much, 'cause I cannot stand Culverton Smith.  I have a real problem with watching any of his scenes, comparable to watching CAM licking Lady Smallwood's face.  And about all I  really like about TFP is the epilog, which I like well enough to upgrade the entire episode a bit.  Oh, and the early scene at Mycroft's house was also good.  Everything in between was just too "let's be mean to people and see what happens."  So I guess T6T would be my favorite episode by default, if it weren't for TAB being in the same voting category.

 

Regarding Series 3, I agree with Arcadia on TSo3, love the structure, and I can't think of anything I strongly dislike about it.  Not sure how to rank TEH vs. oh good grief, what did they call the one with CAM? -- I am not yet ready to rate too silly vs. too yucky.  Sorry.

 

Obviously not yet ready to rate all the episodes against each other, but getting there.

 

[Arcadia]

I can't speak for anyone else, but what I loved about TLD was Sherlock being Sherlock. Even high, he was still brilliant; always a step ahead. And he looked right in that episode. The whole episode looked right; cinematic instead of typical adventure TV. The deduction in the street was amazing to look at. And I'm a sucker for a story about someone who will sacrifice anything to save his friend. And oh gawd, Mrs. Hudson, she was fantastic in that episode, I adored what they did with her. And the revelation of Eurus was a fantastic surprise, I had no idea.  Ummmm ... what else ... I don't know, it just struck all the right chords for me. But especially the way it looked.

[bedelia1984]

I think I would place the seasons in order of 3,2, TAB,1,4 (with 3 being my best). For me the episodes I would mark as weakest are the ones that actually make me cringe a bit- in season 1, The Blind Banker has a weak villain, season 2 had the mid-life-crisis version of a domina8trix, season 3's HLV has the not-very-clever execution of Magnussen, and then season 4's TST had Mary's Death, very poorly executed.

 

If I included TAB with season 4 I'd have to mark it up, but as it stands season 4 is just too inconsistent. TST is the damp squib, TLD is the firework display, and then TFP is a bomb. 

 

I loved TLD, it had breakneck speed in the storytelling, the acting was wonderful- it was really Sherlock, as a person, stripped down and raw- and there was space for us to actually appreciate the acting, Mrs. Hudson, a villain who was entertaining, a moving moment between John and Sherlock... It had absolutely everything. The only downside is that it tempts me to compare the other two unfavourably. Though, TFP has more redeeming features. I think my main beef with season 4 is that it won't be as re-watchable as some of the others- I don't want to watch Mary's death again, and now I know Eurus it affects how I'll see the other two, though I think I will still enjoy TLD on re-watch, but TFP- probably not, it is just too stressful, and tricks like the girl on the plane will seem a bit boring now we know it is just a manifestation of Eurus again.

 

 

[J.P.]

What I don't like about the deduction scene in TLD was it's redundancy. Because Sherlock deduced all that in his flat already, so story-wise it was just the makers showing off IMO. On the plus side - it's a deduction we can follow, and I cannot say it about the final one in TFP, where you need to rewatch and still don't get it. Especially the thing with the gravestones. What sick person build a fake graveyard around a house? 

 

Again, they would do better if they just toned down. Also at the beginning of TFP, where they should stop at the song and someone running around the house. The bleeding portraits were cheesy and an act of vandalism.

 

Uh. We are in Ben's thread actually…

So - where's the baby? -_-

[Arcadia]

TST is the damp squib, TLD is the firework display, and then TFP is a bomb. 

:rofl:

 

Alas, I can't disagree.

 

I loved TLD, it had breakneck speed in the storytelling, the acting was wonderful- it was really Sherlock, as a person, stripped down and raw- and there was space for us to actually appreciate the acting, Mrs. Hudson, a villain who was entertaining, a moving moment between John and Sherlock... It had absolutely everything. The only downside is that it tempts me to compare the other two unfavourably. Though, TFP has more redeeming features. I think my main beef with season 4 is that it won't be as re-watchable as some of the others- I don't want to watch Mary's death again, and now I know Eurus it affects how I'll see the other two, though I think I will still enjoy TLD on re-watch, but TFP- probably not, it is just too stressful, and tricks like the girl on the plane will seem a bit boring now we know it is just a manifestation of Eurus again.

 

Again, I can't disagree. But happily, this time. This was the real show, for me.

[Surelock]

I can't speak for anyone else, but what I loved about TLD was Sherlock being Sherlock. Even high, he was still brilliant; always a step ahead. And he looked right in that episode. The whole episode looked right; cinematic instead of typical adventure TV. The deduction in the street was amazing to look at. And I'm a sucker for a story about someone who will sacrifice anything to save his friend. And oh gawd, Mrs. Hudson, she was fantastic in that episode, I adored what they did with her. And the revelation of Eurus was a fantastic surprise, I had no idea.  Ummmm ... what else ... I don't know, it just struck all the right chords for me. But especially the way it looked.

 

I was recently checking the credits for Sherlock episodes and I think I discovered why The Lying Detective has the same aesthetic as in the previous seasons, unlike the other two episodes in Season 4.

 

To put it simply, I think it's because of the director. The director has a large role to play in the aesthetic of the film.

 

In The Lying Detective, Moffatiss used Nick Hurran as the director. Hurran was one of the directors that had previously directed a Sherlock episode:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sherlock_episodes

 

Nick Hurran had previously directed His Last Vow so he already had a good idea of the aesthetic for Sherlock. That's why he was able to maintain this aesthetic in The Lying Detective.

 

However The Six Thatchers and The Final Problem were directed by Rachel Talalay and Benjamin Caron respectively. These two were newcomers to the Sherlock crew that had never previously directed any Sherlock episodes.

 

Talalay and Caron probably weren't sure of the kind of vision that Sherlock was supposed to have. Maybe they asked Moffatiss about it and Moffatiss didn't communicate effectively with them? I think it's possible that Moffatiss may have said something like, 'We want this season to be darker and edgier' (That 'darkness' of Season 4 is what Moffatiss kept going on about in their pre-release interviews). Talalay and Caron may have taken those words as a cue to change the aesthetic of the show.

[Arcadia]

Oh, I agree absolutely ... except that somebody at Hartswood should have noticed that it didn't "look right" and taken steps to correct that. Or they really wanted it to look that different, in which case they made a very poor decision, imo. The visual style of this show is one of it's hallmarks, replacing that is like replacing the lead actors ... too jarring to be overlooked.

 

But it is what it is. I hope after a few re-watches it will stop bothering me so much, and I can focus more on the story and the performances. Right now, in T6T particularly, it's a big ol' thumb in my eye. :(

[Carol the Dabbler]

Odd -- I've never noticed a stylistic difference, other than in the writing.  Could you guys give me some examples?

[Arcadia]

Odd -- I've never noticed a stylistic difference, other than in the writing.  Could you guys give me some examples?

 

Happy to, but right now I have to do this that and the other thing, another FULLLLLL day tomorrow, not sure what I can do but yeah, you just challenged the art teacher in me, how can I refuse? :d

 

I didn't notice any big visual difference either. Just don't have an eye for that kind of thing, I guess. Neither did The Six Thatchers look "cheap" to me. I mostly liked it, just the final third or so of the episode got on my nerves.

 

Back to Sherlock?

 

I like how they found a modern explanation for his (in this series late) strong disapproval of suicide. In the original, I think this was mostly due to Doyle's religious beliefs and Victorian values. Modern Sherlock has a more personal reason: Seeing John after Mary took the bullet in addition to his own feeling of loss after she was dead (double loss, because not only was Mary gone but John cut off all contact as well). I also take his statement about how when you take your own life, it won't be you who will miss it to be, finally, a full realization of how bad an idea it really was to fake killing himself before John in The Reichenbach Fall, even though that's never explicitly stated. And that is important to me because I still get a lot more upset about that choice of Sherlock's than over his shooting Magnussen, for example.

 

That last part especially, was what I thought ... the full import of his faked suicide didn't really hit him until Mary's death, and it hit him hard. Another moment when I just wanted to hug him...