Holiday-Special News ("Abominable Bride")

[besleybean]

Yes, they do it all the time...but sometimes they are entirely original.

In The Empty hearse, John in the bonfire is entirely original...altho Mark discovered after that as a boy the director actually had to be rescued from a bonfire, that he had crawled into. 

[joanneta1]

Yes, Mr Gatiss mentioned it in the commentary to TEH.

Aerosol dispersal can be found in both The Satan Bug and in Goldfinger, and we know they are Bond fans.

[J.P.]

Inge, I just imagined your text delivered in Sherlock's deduction mode. 

 

This. Is. Amazing. 

 

Is every episode like that? Talk about creative recycling.  :P

[besleybean]

Yes, they seem alarmingly knowledgeable about Bond films...I hate those films.

But of course I will have to watch the next one.

 

Sorry, JP, I missed your post.

What I was trying to say is this: yes obviously BBC Sherlock is an update of Conan Doyle.

We know Mark and Steven are huge ACD fan boys.

They have also said they enjoy putting in canonical references, because they know they will be appreciated by fans and each other.

They have a very specific vision of what they want to do with Sherlock.

But they are also both writers in their own right.

You know they're not just people who only write fan fic.

They have also stated that yes they will bow to the original material, but they do also want to put their own stuff in, too,

[Inge l-w]

 

Inge, I just imagined your text delivered in Sherlock's deduction mode.

 

This. Is. Amazing.

 

Is every episode like that? Talk about creative recycling. :P

Dear J. P.,

Pretty much everything on the show is creative recycling, however, since I dislike Dr Who, I cannot tell which bits have been purloined from their take on that concept. If you really want to play their game, it is fascinating, but I am repeating myself when I say I find what they do with the recycled material artistic, beautiful to watch and enjoy, as long as you do not take anything seriously and thoroughly enjoy yourself!

[besleybean]

I have no shame about enjoying both good literature and entertaining TV!

[J.P.]

I love this kind of things and I'm absolutely enjoying it. Smart recycling is fun. On both authors and viewer's sides.

[besleybean]

I mean if one wanted to be really...well, I'm not sure what the adjective is, but...

There are several pieces around about how there are only a certain, limited number of plot options and also how characters are often stereotypes...

Sherlock Holmes, to me, is almost unique in being unique...and I know he is based on other detectives and he is in fact based on a real man.  But I'm glad ACD gave him to the world.

BBC Sherlock, for me, is so much the best adaptation of Sherlock Holmes that there is or has ever been so far.

[Inge l-w]

It's highly original -- and possibly a good example of "be careful what you wish for, Inge!"

Dear Carol,

By this point of having to wait nearly two years between seasons, and then getting TEH, SoT and HLV above all, (there is an actual thread you started about how we would like to have that last one fixed!) in a row, the only thing I wish is that I were already twelve when the Granada series started, so my mother would have given permission to watch them as they aired, instead of getting the DVDs much later on.

[besleybean]

We always sat as a family and watched everything Sherlock Holmes...as we do now.

Well I know I'm in the minority with S3(of BBC Sherlock) being my fave so far.

[Inge l-w]

Dear besleybean, the adjective would most likely be "nitpicking" in the kindest context; you can, of course, substitute harsher ones in your mind. You are talking about Freytag's pyramid of plot possibilities, so we come back to Sherlock's line in Scandal, "nothing new under the sun" or his previous quip about Coventry, " nothing ever changes".

[besleybean]

Indeed.

Though in case of love stories, genders/sexuality may vary...and plots may become more extreme, depending on the circumstances... 

I don't like to be too harsh.

Obviously much is down to individual choice.

Bit I personally think that some art and literature is better than other art and literature...and I think it is possible to demonstrate why.

Having said that, I can sometimes appreciate that something  is good...but I don't particularly like it!

[joanneta1]

Dear Carol,  besleybean, Inge, J.P. et al,

While we have been arguing about their lack of originality or their inventiveness, they have actually let through a whopper of a blooper! In TEH, Mary talks about a May wedding, in the commentary Mr Gatiss says that it is the bride's prerogative to change her mind and have it later in the year, BUT in SoT, the invitation clearly says 18th of May, at 12 o'clock!

We also know that Sherlock deduces she is already pregnant, so except for her marriage not being legal, she can't even be human, perhaps she has the gestation period of the giant Galapagos turtle, as Rumpo le grumbles when it comes to legal aid fees actually entering his bank account, for her to be still pregnant over Christmas and well into January of next year, when Sherlock has to leave on his apparent one-way trip to a lonely death far away from his beloved London, his friends and even his annoying older brother!

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Well, Mary didn't know she was pregnant yet. It is possible that she was just barely (time frame) pregnant when her body gave it away with stuff that usually happens later in the first trimester. Which means she was near ready to pop at the airport.

[besleybean]

I cut them a bit of slack.

[joanneta1]

Well, he talks about the statistics of the first trimester, so how much slack can they be given? Let's hypothesise she had not yet missed her period, a pretty regular 27.5 day cycle, except in cases of hormonal trouble, so she would have got pregnant around the 25th of April, by SherlckedCamper's hypothesis, give or take a few days. She could not be still pregnant at Christmas, much less at the airport.

[besleybean]

Some people have really give this a lot of thought!

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I'd have her getting pregnant closer to her wedding day. My body told me at 2 weeks and I know someone whose body told her at 1. So maybe Mary was at the 1-2 week window and depending when in January she could still be pregnant even if baby came a little late.

[joanneta1]

Yes, that's the point! She does not know yet, Sherlock has to spell it all out, including symptoms not normally associated with first or second or even nearly a month-long pregnancy.

Suspension of belief is perfectly all right for romantic films and science fiction. It cannot be carried over to what purports to be a Sherlock Holmes concept, the epitome of rational thought and clear inductive and deductive logic. This is not The Game of Thrones, The Vikings, The Avengers or Star Trek.

[besleybean]

It's a TV show!

[joanneta1]

Exactly, one in which every one of us has invested a part of themselves, on an intellectual, emotional and sensory level. A show which makes its loyal followers wait at least eighteen months between series, ostensibly because it is such hard work to produce something visually, aurally and intellectually pleasing should aim for the best possible result. Otherwise, it would be ordinary, not such an event.

[besleybean]

Possibly it's about what we consider to be the best...

For me it's enough that Mary is married and pregnant, I'm not really interested in mistakes on the timeline for these points.

What particularly makes it a great show for me are the cliffhangers and I've not been disappointed yet.

[Arcadia]

Re: The wedding date and Mary's pregnancy -- from the TEH commentary:

 

Steven: “Inconsistency coming up, with the dates of the wedding.”
Mark: “They changed their mind. Bride’s prerogative.”
Sue: “In fact, they saw the sample of the printing of the invite and then they actually changed it after.”

 

I take this to mean that they realized there was a problem with the wedding date, and changed it. For some reason, however, they didn't/couldn't change the date on the invitations seen in TSo3. Therefore, the date on John's blog is the correct one, and the wedding actually took place in August.

[joanneta1]

Dear Arcadia, thanks for confirming my darkest suspicions! So, they can and  DO re-film the whole horrendous ending of the Fall, which I heard explained on the commentary of TEH, with which I started my argument, but apparently cannot fix a piece of cardboard in a later episode. Sorry, besleybean, it IS just a show, but sloppiness will not cut them any slack ever!

[besleybean]

Well, whatever.

For me it's the best TV ever and I watch it because I love it...

Each to their own, I guess.