Who are Your Favorite Villains / Antagonists (Series 4)?

[Carol the Dabbler]

I can't offhand think that *any* of their episodes have been unmitigated comedies (though Empty Hearse comes close, in my opinion).

 

TSoT is fun.

 

Mostly, yes.  It has a light tone, and there are no actual murders -- but there are two attempted murders that come very close to succeeding.  Plus the baddie is truly vicious (and willing to kill a random soldier in the process of avenging his brother's death in combat).  All that takes it out of the "unmitigated comedy" category, in my opinion.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I think I read somewhere that they had Savile in mind when they created the Culverton character.

No wonder he very much had the vibe.

That means they had been wanting to get that character since TGG, since there is a reference to that as well with Moriarty?

 

 

Mostly, yes.  It has a light tone, and there are no actual murders -- but there are two attempted murders that come very close to succeeding.  Plus the baddie is truly vicious (and willing to kill a random soldier in the process of avenging his brother's death in combat).  All that takes it out of the "unmitigated comedy" category, in my opinion.

That's true.

TEH, the bonfire scene is quite depressing.

SIB is pretty fun. Wait, there is a plane full of dead people.. inept boomerang operator... a guy who knows his grandmother's ash.

Okay, you are right. There is no true unmitigated comedy. :D

[Arcadia]

 

I think I read somewhere that they had Savile in mind when they created the Culverton character.

No wonder he very much had the vibe.

That means they had been wanting to get that character since TGG, since there is a reference to that as well with Moriarty?

 

 

Which reference are you, er, referring to? I'm drawing a blank.

[Van Buren Supernova]

In the pool scene, when Sherlock found out Moriarty is the consulting criminal, he said “Dear Jim. Please will you fix it for me to get rid of my lover’s nasty sister?” “Dear Jim. Please will you fix it for me to disappear to South America?”

 

I suppose that is the nature of the show. Correct me if I'm wrong though. I didn't watch the show, only read about it because of the scandal.

[Arcadia]

Is this what you're referring to? (First time I've heard of it.) Jim'll Fix It

[Carol the Dabbler]

Right.  I'd never heard of it either, till somebody mentioned it here on the forum a while back.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Yes, I believe that is the one.

But I'm not really sure what is the actual format, as I knew about it because of the scandal and thought Sherlock refers to it as early as TGG.

I hope I'm not imagining things.

 

Wait..

 

Ariane to the rescue!

 

JIM: I’ve given you a glimpse, Sherlock, just a teensy glimpse of what I’ve got going on out there in the big bad world. I’m a specialist, you see ... 

(He looks surprised, as if he has only just realised the connection.)

JIM: ... like you! 

SHERLOCK: “Dear Jim. Please will you fix it for me to get rid of my lover’s nasty sister?” 

(Starting to walk forward again, Jim grins as he recognises the TV show and catchphrase that Sherlock is quoting.) [see footnotes]

SHERLOCK: “Dear Jim. Please will you fix it for me to disappear to South America?” 

JIM : Just so.

 

 

Footnote: “Dear Jim”: Sherlock is mock-quoting a standard format from a very well-known TV show called “Jim’ll Fix It” which ran on the BBC from 1975 to 1994 and was hosted by Jimmy Savile. Viewers – mostly children – would write to the show and would always begin their letter, “Dear Jim, please can you fix it for me to ...” and would ask for their wildest dream to be met, e.g. to be a train driver for a day, or to meet their favourite athlete, or to work in a chocolate factory for a few hours. Nowadays we would all be writing in and saying, “Dear Jim, please can you fix it for me to meet Benedict Cumberbatch/Martin Freeman,” or “... to be the make-up girl on the next season of ‘Sherlock’,” or “... to be Steve Thompson’s beta reader and point out all his plot inconsistencies to him,” etc. What? Don’t look at me like that third request is from me..

 

In a rather unfortunate piece of timing, within the last couple of weeks (in mid-October 2012 when this transcript was published) the reputation of the late Jimmy Savile has plummeted after terrible allegations have recently surfaced about his behaviour during his years at the BBC. If you haven’t heard of this show before, now is not the time to be googling it.

[Arcadia]

So they wouldn't have been alluding to his criminal activities at any rate, since he hadn't been found out at the time S1 was filmed.

[Van Buren Supernova]

That's true.

I guess the reference was more innocent in TGG and sinister in TLD.

I saw both as sinister, since I only started watching in 2015.

[T.o.b.y]

 

I loved his little scene at Sherrinford. The music! The swagger! I laughed so hard. At that point at the latest people should have gotten the message that The Final Problem was meant to be fun.

 

Umm, well, that part of it, anyhow.  But for some reason, I do not share Eurus's idea of fun.

 

I can't offhand think that *any* of their episodes have been unmitigated comedies (though Empty Hearse comes close, in my opinion).

 

 

True. There's always a blend of comedy, drama, mystery and tragedy that I really love.

 

I meant fun on a more meta level. Not fun for any of the characters of course. Just the whole vibe, it was so... fannish, gleeful, over the top. I could just see them writing the script, getting increasingly drunk and saying to each other: "This is may well be our last chance - quick, what else can we think of that we've always wanted to do on Sherlock?"

 

Eurus is a severely damaged individual of course and commits one absolutely appalling crime after the other but I didn't find her believable enough and the situation at Sherrinford was way too staged and artificial for me to take any of it seriously. I think I would have hated the episode if it hadn't been so satisfying on a fangirl level.

[Boton]

 

SIB is pretty fun. Wait, there is a plane full of dead people.. inept boomerang operator... a guy who knows his grandmother's ash.

Okay, you are right. There is no true unmitigated comedy. :D

 

 

What makes SiB fun for me is that no one actually dies within the episode to make it more serious.  Yes, there's a plane full of dead people, and that has to be -- creepy, to say the least.  But they all died somewhere else, and because of natural causes (presumably). 

 

Death by boomerang is so stupid that it has to be funny.  I kind of want to die by boomerang strike so at least I know everyone at my funeral will have trouble keeping a straight face.   :P

 

And knowing the grandmother's ash?  The irony there is lovely - Sherlock had gotten mad that John's blog was attracting the attention when he had a blog that detailed 243 kinds of tobacco ash, but then he deemed a knowledge of human ash to be boring. Tobacco ash is boring, Sherlock; identifying human ash is interesting (and funny, and creepy).

 

 

 

I meant fun on a more meta level. Not fun for any of the characters of course. Just the whole vibe, it was so... fannish, gleeful, over the top. I could just see them writing the script, getting increasingly drunk and saying to each other: "This is may well be our last chance - quick, what else can we think of that we've always wanted to do on Sherlock?"

 

 

 

 

This. 

 

From the moment Mycroft whipped a pistol out of a sword out of his brolly, I knew that they were about to fulfill every little dream they've ever had so that they could say they'd done it.  So yes, I think TFP counts as funny in the Sherlock universe.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Eurus is a severely damaged individual of course and commits one absolutely appalling crime after the other but I didn't find her believable enough and the situation at Sherrinford was way too staged and artificial for me to take any of it seriously. I think I would have hated the episode if it hadn't been so satisfying on a fangirl level.

From the moment Mycroft whipped a pistol out of a sword out of his brolly, I knew that they were about to fulfill every little dream they've ever had so that they could say they'd done it.  So yes, I think TFP counts as funny in the Sherlock universe.

 

I believe I understand what you mean, because I'm thinking of a particular scene in the first season of Fargo where I was roaring with laughter even though the happenings would have been utterly appalling in real life.  But I don't find Sherlock to be sufficiently over-the-top for that attitude to kick in -- and I don't think I'd love the show if I did.

 

One reason I love Sherlock is that the characters (with precious few exceptions) are so relatable.  So even though I can take some scenes with a grain of salt and have a chuckle, I can't just totally let loose and not give a damn what happens.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Yes, there's a plane full of dead people, and that has to be -- creepy, to say the least.

I find the creepiness actually outshone(?) by always thinking about how the place would smell. Ugh.

 

Death by boomerang is so stupid that it has to be funny.  I kind of want to die by boomerang strike so at least I know everyone at my funeral will have trouble keeping a straight face.   :P

:D

Too bad that is quite unlikely though. You have to be inept yet at the same time knowledgeable enough to let it fly successfully outside your view in order not to see it coming from behind. :D

 

And knowing the grandmother's ash?  The irony there is lovely - Sherlock had gotten mad that John's blog was attracting the attention when he had a blog that detailed 243 kinds of tobacco ash, but then he deemed a knowledge of human ash to be boring. Tobacco ash is boring, Sherlock; identifying human ash is interesting (and funny, and creepy).

Good point. :D

I also think Sherl is jealous.

He only has contact from the morgue, not crematorium. I wonder why he was not interested with the case while he took the comic book one. They sound similarly weird.

 

[Artemis]

And knowing the grandmother's ash?  The irony there is lovely - Sherlock had gotten mad that John's blog was attracting the attention when he had a blog that detailed 243 kinds of tobacco ash, but then he deemed a knowledge of human ash to be boring. Tobacco ash is boring, Sherlock; identifying human ash is interesting (and funny, and creepy).

 

I thought Sherlock told him to leave because he was creepy.  Even Sherlock has standards, lol.

 

I could just see them writing the script, getting increasingly drunk and saying to each other: "This is may well be our last chance - quick, what else can we think of that we've always wanted to do on Sherlock?"

 

Eurus is a severely damaged individual of course and commits one absolutely appalling crime after the other but I didn't find her believable enough and the situation at Sherrinford was way too staged and artificial for me to take any of it seriously.

 

I agree, I thought that was exactly how it seemed.  I didn't find it very fun or funny though, personally.  Ridiculous, definitely, and laughable at parts (flying out of the Baker Street windows in slow motion, oy), but not in a positive way.

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Death by boomerang is so stupid that it has to be funny.  I kind of want to die by boomerang strike so at least I know everyone at my funeral will have trouble keeping a straight face.   :P

:D

Too bad that is quite unlikely though. You have to be inept yet at the same time knowledgeable enough to let it fly successfully outside your view in order not to see it coming from behind. :D

 

In the gentleman's defense, he was distracted by a car backfiring -- presumably not a common occurrence in that remote location.  In fact, that's presumably why he chose that spot to practice and also why boomerangs originated the the Australian outback -- not much chance of sudden distractions in either place.