The Language (and travel) Thread

[Van Buren Supernova]

British and American spelling drive me nuts sometimes (most times) because as a non speaker, I'm not familiar about which and which. Is it using double L or single L, S or Z, OU or O again?

They say the key is consistency, but that's what we don't have because the spelling changes with my reading source's origin. 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

12 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

British and American spelling drive me nuts sometimes (most times) because as a non speaker, I'm not familiar about which and which. Is it using double L or single L, S or Z, OU or O again?

Even native speakers can sometimes have that sort of problem.  Is it EI or IE?  Is it ANCE or ENCE?  Sometimes it just looks right one way or the other, but other times (if I'm not online) I need to check a dictionary.

Then there's this sort of thing:

On 10/14/2019 at 11:16 PM, Carol the Dabbler said:

On 10/14/2019 at 1:55 PM, Artemis said:

I was taught a very old style of grammar which included rules from the 1800’s, and British spellings in some cases.  I still spell ‘cancelled’, ‘travelled’, and ‘counsellor’ with two L’s instead of one.

Those spellings look better to me as well.  Shouldn't "canceled" be pronounced "can-sealed"?

I usually choose to write such words in the British style, simply because I think they look more like they sound.  I've even entered those spellings into my spellchecker (as alternatives), just so I don't need to argue with it.

All in all, though, I'm sure glad to have grown up using English!  Spanish is my "second language" (though not nearly as good as your English), and its spelling is *so* easy by comparison.  You have my sympathy!

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

It's a fascinating language actually, and I like it.

Preposition drives me nuts as well. A kind hearted beta reader sketched for me the difference between perch on and perch in a tree.

I used perch on, before my character is sitting of a branch, like a bird perching on, and it's 'right' when I checked around.  Perch in is more like J.P an owl inside a hollow of a tree imho. However, according to her, perch on indicates my character is situated on the very top of the tree, while perch in is more suitable for my intention. She gave me a very cute sketch to explain that. It makes a lot of sense!

[Carol the Dabbler]

19 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

Preposition drives me nuts

Prepositions drive everyone nuts!  English prepositions can be tricky even for native speakers (and other Indo-European languages seem to be just as tricky) due to nuances like you mentioned.  In English I generally go with whatever "sounds right" to me -- which is presumably not much help to you.

 

19 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

However, according to her, perch on indicates my character is situated on the very top of the tree, while perch in is more suitable for my intention.

Right.  I would say that your character is perching ON a branch, but perching IN a tree.

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

On 9/11/2025 at 11:01 AM, Carol the Dabbler said:

In English I generally go with whatever "sounds right" to me -- which is presumably not much help to you.

Yes, while I have improved (I think) I don't have the radar to spot mistake naturally. There is one I have made peace with, 'in' my direction, while I thought it made more sense to use 'to' my direction.

Most of the time,  I just decided to rephrase a confusing sentence or not post at all to save my sanity. 

But not here, I was shameless and just went with it, subjecting you all to my horrible grammar that drove a certain individual to the wall back then.

On 9/11/2025 at 11:01 AM, Carol the Dabbler said:

Right.  I would say that your character is perching ON a branch, but perching IN a tree.

Yes, I kept the cute sketch but unfortunately I'm not sure if she is okay for me to share it anywhere. 

[J.P.]

On 9/11/2025 at 5:01 AM, Carol the Dabbler said:

In English I generally go with whatever "sounds right" to me -- which is presumably not much help to you.

No, it isn't. There is nothing more deceptive than saying: "You write it the way you speak".

[Carol the Dabbler]

On 9/12/2025 at 6:11 AM, Van Buren Supernova said:

while I have improved (I think) I don't have the radar to spot mistake naturally.

I was looking through some older posts the other day, and YES, you have definitely improved!  That's presumably due to your using English more often -- when I don't use Spanish for a while, I get REALLY bad at it!

On 9/12/2025 at 6:11 AM, Van Buren Supernova said:

... subjecting you all to my horrible grammar that drove a certain individual to the wall back then

Mentioning no names, I can confidently state that many people who criticize other people's grammar (especially those who do it without being asked) tend to made some language mistakes themselves!

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

Another thing that confuses me is plural vs singular.

For example, surroundings in normal term (environment around you) is always in plural, while information is never informations. 

I remember asking about die and dice. There are many more examples but I can't think of them right now. There is barely any method to its madness! (yes, I know there is, but sometimes I think they are pushing it, you know )

[Carol the Dabbler]

6 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

There is barely any method to its madness! (yes, I know there is....)

Are you sure about that?      Please tell me what it is!

English plurals are pretty much like the rest of the language -- a hodge-podge of old forms vs. newer forms, borrowings from other languages, misunderstandings, and wishful thinking.

 

[J.P.]

Found on FB:

English is what happens
when Vikings learn Latin
and use it to shout at Germans,
and then the French shout back

[besleybean]

Brilliant!

[Carol the Dabbler]

7 hours ago, J.P. said:

English is what happens
when Vikings learn Latin
and use it to shout at Germans,
and then the French shout back

That's funny, and actually pretty accurate.

Though I think the Vikings mostly interacted with people in Scotland and northern England, who presumably spoke Celtic and Anglo-Saxon (a branch of German), respectively.  The Latin influence apparently came in two waves, the first being the Roman occupation of parts of Great Britain (ca. 43 to 410 A.D.), followed almost a thousand years later by the Norman-French occupation (1066 to roughly whenever).

Some years back, it occurred to me that I'd been taught when the Norman-French occupation began -- but when did it end?  According to various internet sites, it didn't exactly end, it sort of fizzled out, due to two reasons:

1.  The Norman-French set themselves up as the nobility, and demanded the best of everything for themselves: lots of meat (the best cuts, well marbled with fat), nice white bread, some fruit, and whatever sugar was available -- while the peasants (who had of course produced most of the above) had to content themselves with the left-overs: minimal (lean and organ) meat , whole-grain bread, vegetables, and some fruit -- basically a 20th century health-food diet.  Also the nobility tended to lounge around a good bit, while the peasants got (more than enough!) exercise.  So when the plagues came through, the nobility were more likely to die and the peasants were more likely to survive.

2.  There was gradually more and more intermarriage between the nobility and the commoners.

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

On 9/16/2025 at 12:21 AM, J.P. said:

English is what happens
when Vikings learn Latin
and use it to shout at Germans,
and then the French shout back

I have no idea about all this.

What I can say is it’s fun to read Brit cursing, if that makes sense. I saw a rant post with ‘oi’ innit’ and I can imagine someone sophisticated trying to curse.

On 9/15/2025 at 12:21 AM, Carol the Dabbler said:

Are you sure about that?      Please tell me what it is!

I don’t know, that is supposed to be your language. I add that disclaimer just in case there is any. I guess there is, I think I have read some, but it’s not fun to analyze and some of them sound like made-ups.

On 9/16/2025 at 8:29 AM, Carol the Dabbler said:

Though I think the Vikings mostly interacted with people in Scotland and northern England, who presumably spoke Celtic and Anglo-Saxon (a branch of German), respectively.  The Latin influence apparently came in two waves, the first being the Roman occupation of parts of Great Britain (ca. 43 to 410 A.D.), followed almost a thousand years later by the Norman-French occupation (1066 to roughly whenever).

Some years back, it occurred to me that I'd been taught when the Norman-French occupation began -- but when did it end?  According to various internet sites, it didn't exactly end, it sort of fizzled out, due to two reasons:

1.  The Norman-French set themselves up as the nobility, and demanded the best of everything for themselves: lots of meat (the best cuts, well marbled with fat), nice white bread, some fruit, and whatever sugar was available -- while the peasants (who had of course produced most of the above) had to content themselves with the left-overs: minimal (lean and organ) meat , whole-grain bread, vegetables, and some fruit -- basically a 20th century health-food diet.  Also the nobility tended to lounge around a good bit, while the peasants got (more than enough!) exercise.  So when the plagues came through, the nobility were more likely to die and the peasants were more likely to survive.

2.  There was gradually more and more intermarriage between the nobility and the commoners.

My history lessons come from Asterix and Obelix. I think I have a faint memory of those!

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

Whatever it is, I always watch what I eat, I am too old to do this.

[J.P.]

Maybe in some languages, "pregnancy" and "flatulence" are described by the same word, like "a big belly" or something.🤪

[Carol the Dabbler]

18 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

My history lessons come from Asterix and Obelix.

Me too -- and other enjoyable sources.

I think I've mentioned this before, but most of what I know about Shakespeare's plays come from Richard Armour's Twisted Tales from Shakespeare (which is actually quite accurate in between the jokes).

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

I have to admit I tried to read Shakespeare and didn't survive. It's too flowery and sophisticated for me. 

 

I am trying to eat healthier.

Let me see what they have in the vegetable aisle.

 

It has a point.

Use contraceptive, people.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Trying to figure out what those two signs were *supposed* to say.    

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

Well, as you know, I’m not a language expert. However, I believe the first one is saying, “Kindly copulate with various types of greens, legumes, herbs here.” It’s not that polite, obviously, I’m inserting my own manner here.

The second one read, “There are 90% scumbags who don’t know how to differentiate proper driving from a bunch of fresh toes so please use contraceptive for your horizontal exercise at all times.”

Something like that, I don’t know.

[Carol the Dabbler]

My main question about the first one ("copulate with vegetables") would be: was that actually a sign in the vegetable department of a grocery store (as you slyly led us to believe) or was it a "clever saying" from somewhere else?  And if it was a real grocery sign, then what the copulation was it supposed to say?

Now I'm trying to decide whether the second one was actually an ad for contraceptives or if perhaps it was an inversion of a common traffic-department reminder -- and if the latter, whether it was inverted by accident or on purpose.  If I saw just that part of the sign posted in some random place (say, on a bumper sticker) I would assume it was an intentional inversion meant as a joke (albeit with a point, though I seriously doubt the actual figure is that high).  But here it's on what I take to be an official government sign, presumably posted by the traffic department, and apparently in a country where English is not the first language.

As you might be guessing by now, I am easily confused!    

 

[J.P.]

Google says: Dry Vegetables.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I believe that is an actual sign, but I didn’t see it personally, of course. I have seen weird translations but nothing was as hilarious as the ones that can be found in the internet.

What J.P said. After your post I tried to google translate it and yes I think it means dried vegetables. Not sure how it leads to sexy/unsexy times but I wouldn’t role out trolls as well in translating it, or laziness, or wrong interpretation.

As for the second one, if you really have to take it seriously, I think it only says that 90% of accidents are cause by humans. Yes, the walking, obnoxious, annoying, two-legged creatures. While it's probably confusing, there are accidents caused by animals or technical errors. I used to commute 40 minutes (one way) daily to my work place and there was a very long stretch of straight road. Almost every day I would see road kills, ranging from dogs to cats, goats, rats, frogs, and chickens, with the biggest percentage (more than half) was dogs. Saw some ‘technical errors’ in this deadly road as well. For example, they built a new lane meant for slower vehicle (this is also the route for commodity trucks).

The bright mind of the people who were responsible for this project decided a high curb would be an ideal divider, WITHOUT making sure it would be visible at night.

A bit of background, the same bright-minded government loved to save money by turning off street lights. I am not joking. I worked late before and had to ride in a long stretch of darkness because their rusty mind thought it’s better to turn off the whole lane instead of alternating the lights. It was a complete darkness except the light from my motorcycle. Besides roadkill risk and the possibility of bats and bugs hitting you, there were unpredictable obstacles on the road, for example, THE NEW CURB.

I saw two cars (different time) stuck on the curb because they went right into it, hitting their chassis and potentially ruining the vehicles. There was no sign or glow in the dark material, it was a simple high curb in the middle of multiple road lane. The last time I went that route they had put up some signages.

Well, this has become a full rant so I might as well as write about a terrifying thing I witnessed on one of my journeys to work. I saw someone dead on the road because she hit a parked vehicle. It was a government vehicle meant for landscaping. It was parked on the right side of the road next to the landscape island that separated the two-way road. We drive on the left, right lane is fast lane. There was no safety triangle or anything, and of course, it was pitch dark. She must have hit it hard with the motorcycle and was dead on the spot, helmet was still on, bike was a wreck, behind this vehicle. I still remember every detail.

Gah!

Here are a few more lost in translation but don’t think too much of them! I didn’t see them personally, I don’t really know what they meant but I’m sure the chicken is just an introvert.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

6 hours ago, J.P. said:

Google says: Dry Vegetables.

Google!   

Thanks, J.P. -- and according to Reddit's r/Engrish [sic]:
"As Chinese, 干菜类 translates to 'Dry Vegetables Section (Shop)'"
=== and ===
"'dried' and 'f***' are the same character (written the same) in Chinese. However, this is not how you would write 'f*** vegetables' if you wanted to say that."

 

[J.P.]

Sometimes little things influence you for the rest of your life. I still remember a funny story mentioning a written order from China or Japan, where ball bearings turned into round sofas.
And if you thought about it, it even made sense, in German more than in English, though. 

Ball bearing in German is Kugellager
Kugel > ball > round
Lager > many things, the word derives from "to lie", in this case, the least used meaning: "something to lie on" > sofa

It always makes me remember to "think around ten corners" (Um zehn Ecken denken) every time I see a funny translation.

In English, it might become "a spherical posture" or so… 

The problem is that the Venn diagrams of meanings (including colors!) might be very different for different languages; picking the right one isn't always easy.

[J.P.]

3 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

Oh, my! 
Imagine your Sichuan Spicy Chicken becoming rude and unreasonable on your plate.