Episode 2.2 ,"The Hounds Of Baskerville"

[besleybean]

'She' has a name.  Tee Hee.

I mean the hand on the shoulder and the earnest 'John'.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

*g* I know you have a name. But I think what is being asked, does Sherlock put his hand on John's shoulder right after John gets out of the cage?

[Carol the Dabbler]

Resorting once more to Ariane DeVere's wonderful transcript, is this the part you're talking about, besleybean?

 

JOHN: It’s here.
(The shadow moves closer ... and then the sheeting is tugged upwards as the lights come on in the lab and Sherlock’s face appears on the other side of the cage, looking anxiously down at him as he pulls the door open and goes inside.)
SHERLOCK (worriedly): Are you all right?
(John’s eyes widen in utter bewilderment as Sherlock bends down to him and puts a hand onto his shoulder.)
SHERLOCK: John ...
JOHN: Jesus Christ ...
(He grabs the bars and pulls himself to his feet, hurrying out of the cage and stuffing his phone away as he turns back to his friend.)

 

.

[besleybean]

Exactly so.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Thanks!  I was wanting to rewatch this episode anyhow (paying special attention to Frankland's first appearance), so while I'm at it, I can see what I think of Sherlock's reaction.

 

Perhaps he's thinking, "Oops!  Should have made allowance for the fragility of John's ordinary little mind!" 

 

[besleybean]

I don't think he's necessarily thinking that, but I do think he cares.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I was being facetious -- I think.  (Went back and put a wink-face on it.)

 

But it does seem that Sherlock might have accidentally pushed John further than he meant to.  After all, he still thinks the drug is in the sugar (and he had carefully measured the "dose" that he gave John).  He had never seen the leaky pipes till he was watching John on the CCTV, and still doesn't realize that they are the actual source of the drug.  So perhaps he's a bit frightened by the intensity of John's reaction -- he'd just meant to make him hallucinate a little, not scare the living daylights out of him!

 

[besleybean]

I think you're right.

[T.o.b.y]

But it does seem that Sherlock might have accidentally pushed John further than he meant to.  After all, he still thinks the drug is in the sugar (and he had carefully measured the "dose" that he gave John).  He had never seen the leaky pipes till he was watching John on the CCTV, and still doesn't realize that they are the actual source of the drug.  So perhaps he's a bit frightened by the intensity of John's reaction -- he'd just meant to make him hallucinate a little, not scare the living daylights out of him!

 

Now that is a very smart idea. It makes perfect sense when you put it that way, but it's not at all what I see on screen. I see Sherlock having fun at his friend's expense with his feet on the table and I see him rushing to the "rescue" with the true Holmesian flare for drama, but I do not see much real concern. That was in the pool scene, but not here, I don't think so.

 

Do let us know what impression you get when you see it the next time, Carol!

 

[iammoriarty]

The curse of episode 2.

 

All the episode 2's have not been upto the mark. Didn't like it much. Some scenes were good as you all have pointed but the toal connect was not upto the mark. I have read the book so it was good twist given to the story by the writers.

 

The places were also potrayed nicely. The G.G Mire as the G.G Minefield. The Baskerville Hall as the Baskerville Base.

Major Barrymore was the best character, he was potrayed similiar to the book.

 

The story was not that well drawn. It could have been more connected.

 

5/10.

[besleybean]

I disagree.

Though I love the Canon version.

Mark is one of my favourite writers.

His Great Game is my 2nd fave episode to date and HOUND is my 3rd.

I do agree with you about the awkward middle episode and certainly think Steve Thompson was handed a bit of a poisoned chalice there in series 1.

But I think Mark tackles  a big story well in series 2 and the final link to Moriarty and The Fall is excellent.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... All the episode 2's have not been upto the mark. Didn't like it much. Some scenes were good as you all have pointed but the toal connect was not upto the mark. I have read the book so it was good twist given to the story by the writers. ... The story was not that well drawn. It could have been more connected....

 

I agree with you (and I think with most fans) that the middle episodes so far have been the weakest.  In defense of "Hounds," I will say that at least the plot finally makes sense to me (since Earendil pointed out this detail), whereas every time I watch "Blind Banker" I notice even more holes in the plot.  But yeah, "Hounds" doesn't have the nice flow that the four best episodes do.

 

Reading the original book should give one a better perspective on the episode, but I got bogged down partway through it -- maybe I'll take heart from your success and give it another go!

 

[T.o.b.y]

Funny, am I the only person out there who likes both middle episodes? I love The Hounds of Baskerville even though the book means a lot to me (usually, when an adaptation is done of something I really liked to read, I hate it out of principle for not being like I saw things in my mind). What they did with the original mystery is really clever, in my opinion. You recognize the original plot, get to smile at a rich assortment of references, and yet have the full benefit of trying to figure things out. Also, Sherlock's nervous breakdown is one of my favorite bits of acting on the show.

 

The only problem I have with the episode is that it is too scary for me to watch alone at night, but I don't see that as a weakness, exactly...

[besleybean]

I confess it doesn't really scare me that much.

Which is just as well, cos I'm no really into scary stuff!

Funny.

When I 1st joined the Sherlock fandom and certainly in my my first few forums, BANK was universally disliked.But I am finding younger, more recent Sherlockians really like it.

Apparently, this is because it is rich with Johnlock.

A concept i find strange, considering it is the 1st episode we see John with a girlfriend.

[T.o.b.y]

The first episode with a girlfriend? Are we talking about the same one? He had a girlfriend in The Blind Banker and The Great Game and he does not have one in The Hounds of Baskerville, he only tries to get into Luise Mortimer's good graces with questionable success.

 

The dynamic between the two main characters is great in Hounds (as always), but I can't say it's the reason I like the episode (and I don't give a hoot for anythinglock). For me, it's got more to do with what I consider a brilliant modern interpretation of the original text, superb acting, lots of humor and the overall atmosphere. Oh, and it has the mind palace idea in it as well! Did anybody actually dislike getting a glimpse at what goes on inside Sherlock's mind?

[besleybean]

Indeed, the 1st(of I hope many) references to the Mind Palace. 

And also the first look at The Diogenes.

Oh and the best opening ever.

[T.o.b.y]

The opening? Oh, that is certainly scary. I fast-forward it when I'm by myself, to be honest... I think the light in that scene is weird, sort of surreal. Perhaps they did that because it represents Henry Knight's distorted memory.

[besleybean]

Oh I beg your pardon.

Yes, I was referring to Sherlock's arrival at Baker Street!

On the actual opening scene:  I always warn people it's loud!

I should also point out, I did jump the 1st time I saw the ' hound' hit the window!

[T.o.b.y]

Oh, you mean the harpoon! Good thing that's a canon reference, because otherwise I would have ranted about it for being overdone to no end. I still don't like it - but then, I dislike so many of Conan Doyle's ideas. Maybe the main reason why I love "Sherlock" so much is that my attitude towards the original runs somewhere along the lines of "now, there is a great idea - too bad it wasn't handled by somebody with better powers of execution". And finally, after so many years, somebody comes along who takes just exactly the parts I liked about the original, improves on them, gets together a great cast and makes the whole thing come alive.

 

And also, finally somebody realized the main character's potential for being something of a heart-throb! The way girls fawn over Sherlock now makes me feel a lot less weird for having sighed over Mr Holmes years ago.

[besleybean]

Brilliant!

[T.o.b.y]

Brilliant!

 

Yes, the adaptation is brilliant, no question about it. The only element I miss are the drugs and at least they hinted at that.

 

One major element of the original story was missing on The Hounds of Baskerville, and that is Holmes hiding out on the moor and scaring the already strained wits out of Dr Watson and the reader as "the mysterious stranger out there". The book is about fear and superstition and what it takes to overcome those. Watson finally ventures out to the hiding place of the stranger to face him (with the aid of a gun) and is rewarded for his bravery by the menace turning out to be his old friend who had been watching over the case from afar. The moment Holmes appears, the spell of horror is broken. There's this huge sense of relief.

 

On Hounds, they let Sherlock himself get drawn in and confront him with his own fears while John gets to be the reasonable one who calms things down (at least until he's made to take part in a certain experiment).

 

I liked that twist, even though it meant my favorite moment from Doyle's work had to be left out. And who knows, maybe they'll do a variation on that in a later episode with a different background.

 

[besleybean]

Mark said they had to have Sherlock there from the start ,as no way would the fans accept him not to be.

This, of course, was also the  twist with Henry coming to Baker St and with Frankland etc.

[T.o.b.y]

they had to have Sherlock there from the start ,as no way would the fans accept him not to be.

 

 

Oh, I am sure I would have been one of the people who wouldn't have accepted that! I wondered when I first saw the episode "now, how are they going to do this without Sherlock?" I sort of expected they would alternate between showing John on his own in the village and Sherlock on the moor and / or at Baskerville. When Sherlock first pretended to send John and stay home and then laughed at everybody for actually believing he would do that, I jumped with joy.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

When I 1st joined the Sherlock fandom and certainly in my my first few forums, BANK was universally disliked.But I am finding younger, more recent Sherlockians really like it.

Apparently, this is because it is rich with Johnlock.

A concept i find strange, considering it is the 1st episode we see John with a girlfriend.

 

The first episode with a girlfriend? Are we talking about the same one? He had a girlfriend in The Blind Banker and The Great Game and he does not have one in The Hounds of Baskerville, he only tries to get into Luise Mortimer's good graces with questionable success.

 

Correct -- you're not talking about the same one.  As my editing job points up, besleybean was indeed making a comparison to "Blind Banker."

 

I love The Hounds of Baskerville even though the book means a lot to me (usually, when an adaptation is done of something I really liked to read, I hate it out of principle for not being like I saw things in my mind). What they did with the original mystery is really clever, in my opinion. You recognize the original plot, get to smile at a rich assortment of references, and yet have the full benefit of trying to figure things out.

 

T.o.b.y, you and Iammoriarty are inspiring me to slog my way through the rest of the original, in hopes that it will give me a better perspective.

 

I do agree with you about the awkward middle episode and certainly think Steve Thompson was handed a bit of a poisoned chalice there in series 1.

 

Oops, sorry, besleybean, didn't see your post up there.

 

Thank you for pointing that out!  I assume that all three writers (or perhaps just Moffat and Gatiss) get together to hash out the basic plots and then each of the three does one of the scripts.  So Thompson drew the short straw that time.

 

Oh, you mean the harpoon! Good thing that's a canon reference, because otherwise I would have ranted about it for being overdone to no end. I still don't like it

 

Oh, good, somebody else who doesn't care for that scene!  I thought it worked much better in "Black Peter," where it at least fit into the story.  And after reading the original, the episode's version bothers me even more -- I had originally taken John's remark about a "dead pig" as pure sarcasm, but now it sounds like he's suddenly become psychic!

 

One major element of the original story was missing on The Hounds of Baskerville, and that is Holmes hiding out on the moor and scaring the already strained wits out of Dr Watson and the reader as "the mysterious stranger out there". The book is about fear and superstition and what it takes to overcome those. Watson finally ventures out to the hiding place of the stranger to face him (with the aid of a gun) and is rewarded for his bravery by the menace turning out to be his old friend who had been watching over the case from afar.

 

Oh, good point!  That may be the main reason why I found the Jeremy Brett adaptation so much more satisfying.  But as you go on to point out, that wouldn't have really worked with "our" Sherlock and John.  Too bad!

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

I had originally taken John's remark about a "dead pig" as pure sarcasm, but now it sounds like he's suddenly become psychic!

 

 

I assumed when I saw it that John had known what Sherlock had planned on doing when he left the flat with a harpoon. I very much doubt that his powers of deduction are up to going from "Sherlock full of blood with a weapon in his hand" to "he must have been slashing dead pigs".

 

Sorry, Carol, I haven't figured out multiquote yet, so the rest of my reply will have to be as it is:

 

Thank you for clearing up the episode confusion. I remember having tried to defend the merits of The Blind Banker elsewhere - with little success, so I won't repeat myself.

 

I still have hopes that my favorite scene in The Hound of The Baskervilles will be used yet on the show, only in a different context. If I were on the writing team (and again, we can all be glad I'm not), I would probably use it for "The Reunion" (which I am looking forward to as much as anybody else - I do care most for the two guys and their friendship, I just don't want to see them ending up in bed because that would be boring and put an end to all this lovely analyzing and speculating and trying to figure them out. And besides, Sherlock Holmes in bed with anybody is just wrong, somehow - with the possible exception of Irene, maybe).