Episode 2.2 ,"The Hounds Of Baskerville"

[T.o.b.y]

 

 

This thread has got weird!

 

Why? Because someone dared to dislike a fictional character?

 

 

No, I think she means because we were talking about Henry and a certain other person as if they were dating material...

 

I don't think the writers necessarily meant Henry to be liked and I do think he was supposed to come across as weird or "off". If he didn't, the scenes where he almost kills his therapist and later himself would not have been as believable.

 

Maybe he appeals to me because I have a liking for damaged characters. Besides, I think the actor did a very good job and I just love good acting. (On the other hand, Gatiss does a superb job as Mycroft and I still don't like him - Mycroft, I mean, of course!)

 

[besleybean]

You don't like Mycroft?

An outraage

Tee Hee.

[T.o.b.y]

No, I don't. Let me see, the reason why really has nothing to do with The Hounds of Baskerville and I think I've been tedious enough about it elsewhere. So I'll not launch into a long post on that topic (again...)

 

I'll just say this much: Mycroft on "Sherlock" is a huge step forward from Mycroft in Doyle's stories, he's really well written and played and he is also often indispensable for the plot. So I am glad he's around, even if I don't find him appealing.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I don't think the writers necessarily meant Henry to be liked and I do think he was supposed to come across as weird or "off". If he didn't, the scenes where he almost kills his therapist and later himself would not have been as believable.

 

I have to agree with you there.

 

Maybe he appeals to me because I have a liking for damaged characters. Besides, I think the actor did a very good job and I just love good acting. (On the other hand, Gatiss does a superb job as Mycroft and I still don't like him - Mycroft, I mean, of course!)

 

Whereas I love Mycroft but Henry gives me the creeps.      Now I'm wondering whether we could set up a system of personality types (analogous to the Myers-Briggs types) based on which Sherlock characters each of us likes or doesn't like.

 

[T.o.b.y]

I am not too sure I want to find out too much about myself... I was forced to take an IQ test once and it told me I was too dumb to go to university. Luckily, I already was at uni when (and where) I took it.

 

I am surprised (rather pleasantly) that not everybody who likes the show also adores the main character. It's so much fun to read all your different impressions and interpretations.

 

The same goes for liking certain episodes. I see why people weren't too fond of The Blind Banker, but I had never expected a similar level of criticism on The Hounds of Baskerville.

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I am not too sure I want to find out too much about myself... I was forced to take an IQ test once and it told me I was too dumb to go to university. Luckily, I already was at uni when (and where) I took it

 

I think the danger is not so much knowing too much about yourself, but rather placing too much confidence in test results.  Standardized tests can give you some hints about your strengths and weaknesses, and can therefore be useful as a very general guideline, but as you already know, it can be a mistake to let them dictate your decisions.  Humans have far too much individual variation for tests to be infallible.

 

[besleybean]

We're still weird!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Good for us! 

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Weird can be good.....at least we are not mundane and boring.

[besleybean]

Quite so.

[Pamela]

What a great discussion!  Here's my contribution:

 

I really liked the harpoon entrance.  Loved it, in fact.  But that's probably because I'm one of those old-time Sherlockians who just loved the reference -- the little "treat" as Moffat likes to call them.

 

Based on my first couple viewings, I would agree (with some of you) about the middle episode phenomenon, rating this a notch or two above The Blind Banker.  I viewed it again today and liked it better for some reason.  I guess it's that way they have of loading these films so that you can always pick up something new.

 

But I still could't bring myself to rate it Excellent!  Something was just wrong and I could't put my finger on it.  Until I read this thread.  Aha!  I can't remember which of you did it, but thank you!  It was the first shot of Frankland coming out the door where the "leaky pipes" are (which is where John goes in later, etc., etc.).  My thoughts before that about John's lab-rat experience were that it was the power of suggestion that made him believe a hound was out there.  (Not exactly a good enough explanation.)  Now I'm going to have to go back and watch the episode again -- at least from that point on!  How did so many of us miss that?

 

As for Henry -- what was his name?  Russell Tovey?  I've never seen Being Human.  Anyway, I thought he was fine.  Agreed, in his present condition, I wouldn't choose him for a friend, but, he got across the trauma he'd been through and was going through so very well.  When those security lights were going on and off and his nerves were just shot, I could have cried for him.  And then later when he hadn't slept and didn't dare sleep because as soon as he closed his eyes he saw the hound, well ...

[Carol the Dabbler]

Something was just wrong ...  It was the first shot of Frankland coming out the door where the "leaky pipes" are (which is where John goes in later, etc., etc.).  My thoughts before that about John's lab-rat experience were that it was the power of suggestion that made him believe a hound was out there.  (Not exactly a good enough explanation.)  Now I'm going to have to go back and watch the episode again -- at least from that point on!  How did so many of us miss that?

 

I haven't watched the episode again since that point was cleared up, but judging by the screen caps, we saw that shot of the door for maybe one second -- barely better than subliminal.  And the identifying sign was behind Frankland in the background.

 

So I'm not at all surprised that most of us missed it -- I'm still amazed that Earendil put 2 and 2 together!

 

[Pamela]

Another thing about the episode that I liked and forgot to mention:  I loved the  concluding scene in the Hollow, where the "hound" is confronted.  I've never before or since seen Sherlock more human.  When the dog was shot, his first concern was getting Henry to look at the dog, to realize that it was just a dog.  Even before that his concern was beautiful in trying to prevent Henry from taking his life.  After that immediate crisis was past, of course he reverted to himself, but seeing this part of him was great.

[T.o.b.y]

Funny, when I think "Sherlock being exceptionally human", this scene doesn't come to mind at all... His concern for Henry is in any case very true to the original. Holmes is usually very protective of his clients. And when he thinks the hound has gotten Henry Knight in the novel, he is very upset.

[Karie]

I liked Henry. More than anything, I felt incredibly sad for him. He lost so much of his life to psychosis, only to discover it was deliberately inflicted on him by someone he trusted and considered family. I often wonder, upon watching and re-watching HoB, if he will ever be able to have a normal life after that. Did he regain his sanity and find peace, allowing him to move on after the truth came to light? Or was he forever plagued by nightmares and fear? 

 

Didn't he comment on John's blog once? Saying something like how Sherlock had done so much for him? Or did I dream that? 

 

ETA: Yes, here it is. Posted on one of the blogs John wrote after Sherlock's death: 

 

 

You two were brilliant. I'll never believe what they said on the news. You saved my life and if there's anything I can do then let me know.

Henry Knight 27 April

 

So maybe he was able to move on and have some kind of a normal life. 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I think in Canon, he got away from Dartmoor to recuperate from his ordeal. In the episode John asks Henry if he is rich and Henry says that he is, so maybe he was able to get away and get some real help. Maybe he took Louise Mortimer with him.

[besleybean]

Who'd want to leave that gorgeous house?!

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Some one who's nerves were shattered and needed to get away from all the bad memories for awhile?

[Carol the Dabbler]

We just watched this episode (again) tonight, and I caught something I'd never noticed before -- Henry's father died when his head hit a rock.  That's not to say that Bob Frankland wasn't to blame -- but Frankland may not have actually intended to kill him.

 

My estimate of how long the "Stay Out" sign is visible in (the background of) the first lab scene was a good one -- right about one second.  And that same second is the only time we see Frankland actually wearing the gas mask, as well -- for the rest of that scene, he's carrying it in his hand, but unobtrusively, and it'd be difficult to tell just what it was.  This episode makes no sense unless you notice that Frankland is coming out of that particular door wearing a gas mask -- and even Sherlock didn't notice that, or he'd have mentioned it to John at the end -- so it seems to me that we're given kinda short notice.  Considering that Mark Gatiss has said "you can't possibly build a solution on something that can only be glimpsed when you blow up the image 65 times," it's just as well that he isn't the author of -- oh, wait a minute....

 

And back to that room with the "Stay Out" sign -- why do the pipes leak?  Surely in a high-priority facility like that, a leaky pipe could be repaired, but even if funds were not available, Frankland could presumably have patched it himself with a piece of duct tape.  This leads me to believe that he wants the pipe to leak.  Why?  Is he experimenting on his fellow scientists?  ("Hey, come in here a minute and give me a hand with moving this table.")  John was in there for only about thirty seconds, so it presumably wouldn't take long to affect them.

 

I also noticed that there's an "air lock" on that room, the outer door (with the sign on it) and an inner door to the actual leaky-pipe room.  I guess that explains why everyone in the lab isn't affected on an ongoing basis.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

  Very good insights, Carol. But if Frankland didn't intend to kill Henry's father, why attack him at all? And he didn't show any concern for him after he hit his head....just nudges him a few times, like he was making sure. Nor did he do anything to stop Henry from going to the Hollow afterwards.

[T.o.b.y]

- why do the pipes leak?  Surely in a high-priority facility like that, a leaky pipe could be repaired, but even if funds were not available, Frankland could presumably have patched it himself with a piece of duct tape.  This leads me to believe that he wants the pipe to leak.  Why?  Is he experimenting on his fellow scientists?  ("Hey, come in here a minute and give me a hand with moving this table.")  John was in there for only about thirty seconds, so it presumably wouldn't take long to affect them.

I'm not sure whether the writers thought these things through, but your idea makes a lot of sense. If Frankland wanted to continue the experiments, of course he'd need test subjects, and that would be a good way of getting them, wouldn't it. You could study long-term effects on people you see every day and knew before they were affected at all. Of course, they could become a bit difficult to work with over time...

[Earendil]

 But if Frankland didn't intend to kill Henry's father, why attack him at all?

It could be that it was Henry's father who 'attacked' Frankland when he found him in the middle of an experiment. Why else did he go there? The verbal combat has lead to a physical attack and Henry's father hit his head and died. I don't think either that Frankland wanted to kill him. If so why didn't he kill Henry too, the eye wittness? He could have prevent lots of troubles...

 

By the way, how do we know that Frankland wasn't under the influence of that substance? He was wearing a mask during the attack, but as many researchers do, he could have experimenting with himself too...

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Good points, absolutely, but if Henry's father knew what Frankland was doing and had gone to the Hollow to confront Frankland, why take Henry along at all. Henry shouts at Frankland in front of Sherlock, John, and Lestrade that Frankland had killed his father because he had caught Frankland in the middle of an experiment but it couldn't have been that night. The Hollow was a trap set for Henry's father by Frankland but Henry's father didn't know it until it was to late.

 

  Frankland didn't kill Henry because he had a mask on how was Henry, a small boy, going to be able to identify him? And for twenty years he didn't know that it was Frankland.

 

  And Sherlock trying to talk Henry down from his suicide attempt, tells Henry that Frankland was trying to keep him as a child so that he wouldn't never be able to remember that night properly. So Frankland experiments on a large dog, making it vicious and uncontrollable and then starts to condition Henry as well because the last thing he can allow Henry to do is to remember.

[Earendil]

Good points, absolutely, but if Henry's father knew what Frankland was doing and had gone to the Hollow to confront Frankland, why take Henry along at all.

 

This is the weakest point of my theory. But if it was indeed a trap, how could he possible know it? I think Henry's mother already died, so he couldn't leave Henry at home all alone.

 

 

Frankland didn't kill Henry because he had a mask on how was Henry, a small boy, going to be able to identify him?

 

 

He could have tell the police that he has seen a man with a mask on. They could have caught Frankland. That's why Frankland should have killed Henry on the spot too. Much easier than waiting for 20 years and trying to drive him crazy.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Henry tells Sherlock that after his mother died, he and his dad started taking walks on the moor.  So how about this:

 

Knight Senior didn't go to the Hollow intending to confront Frankland.  He and Henry were just out for one of their walks, say at twilight, and happened to see Frankland in the Hollow -- as Henry says later, "right in the middle of an experiment."  Knight Senior realizes what's going on and confronts Frankland, perhaps a bit physically, and things escalate till Knight Senior lands with his head on a rock.  Frankland may have tried to help him when we weren't looking (but even if not, just about anyone who falls down on television is assumed to be dead).  And if killing Dad was an accident, then Frankland presumably isn't actually the murderous type, which is why he merely does his best to misdirect Henry.

 

So Frankland experiments on a large dog, making it vicious and uncontrollable

 

Wow, I can't believe I never put that 2+2 together!  I'm sure you're right, though -- the innkeepers even commented on how they couldn't control the dog.  So in a sense, it really was "The Hound."