Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[jesskayding]

Sure we would! CAM croaks, Sherlock turns to John and says "Merry Christmas!" I would've loved it.

Hey -- why did he say that anyway? Are we all on the wrong track? He didn't shoot CAM to save Mary, he did it as a Christmas present for Mycroft???? Eeep.

 

 

It was a Christmas present to the entire Western world.

[Slithytove]

Sorry Slithytove. The Lestrade comparison holds no water.. Per like Arcadia just responded & per a previous post I made, Sherlock didn't shoot CAM to keep people out of jail, but he did it to save @ least 3 lives from possible death.

 

There was also an unattended Bonus for CAM's death is that entire nations governmental decisions would be made by elected officials versus a blackmailing journalist.

I disagree regarding Lestrade. We don't know that Mary's life, or anyone else's, is in danger. Even if the people who want revenge actually exist, and even if CAM truly intends to contact them (and, remember, he only says he will do so if John doesn't allow himself to be humiliated - which makes it seem more like another power play), there would be other ways to protect her. Take her into custody, for a start. There are grounds for putting her in prison, and she'd be pretty safe there from outside attacks.

 

If there is any danger that John will be targeted as a way of hurting Mary, Mycroft could do a deal to ensure CAM's silence.....or, for God's sake, the consulting detective and self-proclaimed genius could work out the identity of these avengers and a strategy for stopping them! If, of course, the threat is a real one and not one of CAM's unpleasant little games, which seems more than likely.

 

But the information which CAM knows that could put Mary in prison for life....It isn't inconceivable that Lestrade could discover that same information. Though Sherlock regularly insults his intelligence, he didn't get to be a DI in the Met without being bright and good at his job. As a policeman, he would have no choice but to arrest Mary. What would Sherlock do to prevent that happening, to fulfill his vow? Put a bullet through Lestrade's head?

 

Also, Carol may have a point about Eastern Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be Mary's point of origin, as we've had several nods in that direction. (Serbia and the Czech Republic, not to mention the East Wind....). I agree that the UK doesn't demand strict adherence to our own laws, where extradition is involved. However, I still think Mary must have done something considered a criminal offence here, even if it is not a life sentence in a UK prison which she fears. I don't think we would extradite her to face a life sentence for something which we would not consider a serious crime, or a crime at all. I doubt that our courts would consider that compatible with human rights. So, even if Mary is a foreign national, I think her crimes must be sufficiently serious to warrant a life sentence under UK law, and murder seems the most probable cause.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Also, Carol may have a point about Eastern Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be Mary's point of origin, as we've had several nods in that direction. (Serbia and the Czech Republic, not to mention the East Wind....). I agree that the UK doesn't demand strict adherence to our own laws, where extradition is involved. However, I still think Mary must have done something considered a criminal offence here, even if it is not a life sentence in a UK prison which she fears. I don't think we would extradite her to face a life sentence for something which we would not consider a serious crime, or a crime at all....

I didn't know either, so I went Googling, and found some potentially worrisome information. First, here's Mary's statement, for reference:

 

The stuff Magnussen has on me, I would go to prison for the rest of my life.

 

She doesn't say what country's prison she fears, so extradition could be involved.

 

According to Wikipedia, the UK currently has extradition treaties with most of the countries in Europe, including Eastern Europe and Russia, and with some countries in the Middle East.  The UK's own extradition policies have been modified over the past few years, both to bring them in line with European policies, and to streamline them.  The latter category is of special concern to the people involved in a campaign called Extradition Watch, who say that British residents can now be fast-track extradited without a British court first determining whether there's even a case against them.  They also say that "the duty on a Home Secretary to block extraditions that would breach human rights has now been repealed."

 

[jesskayding]

Ok it seems that eberyone is just referencing what Mary said. We're leaving out what CAM said. It goes way beyond a prison sentence for Mary & Mary wouldn't be the only one affected.

 

 

MAGNUSSEN: It works like this, John. I know who Mary hurt and killed.

(He flicks his cheek again. Sherlock has now lifted his gaze and is looking at him, his expression grim.)

 

MAGNUSSEN (to John): I know where to find people who hate her.

(He flicks him again, then again. The soldier stares back at him, tolerating it only because he has no choice.)

 

MAGNUSSEN: I know where they live; I know their phone numbers.

(He flicks him twice more.)

 

MAGNUSSEN: All in my Mind Palace – all of it.

(Sherlock’s gaze towards him becomes more intense.)

 

MAGNUSSEN (to John): I could phone them right now and tear your whole life down – and I will ...

(Sherlock’s lips are slightly lifted from his teeth.)

 

MAGNUSSEN (to John): ... unless you let me flick your face.

(He flicks him three times. Sherlock continues to glare at him with his teeth bared.)

 

MAGNUSSEN (to John): This is what I do to people. This is what I do to whole countries ...

(He flicks him again, then straightens up.)

 

MAGNUSSEN: ... just because I know.

(He bends back down to John.)

 

 

He promised John- " And I WILL." wasn't a maybe, was a gaurentee. It what he does to whole countries he said. Why does this man deserve to live? I don't get the disparity everyone has for this mans life.

[sfmpco]

One way to "kill off" Mary's character might be to NOT kill her but put her into one of Sherlock's personal witness protection programs like he did for Irene.  If for whatever reason John couldn't go with her, the separation would be devastating.  Still, I expect her to die in one way or another.  

[Slithytove]

Carol - I know about Liberty's "Extradition Watch" and I agree that our extradition laws are far from perfect. Our current government doesn't have a wonderful attitude to human rights, although the Home Secretary did step in to prevent the extradition of Gary McKinnon, the hacker diagnosed with autism, to the US where he faced 70 years in prison. (Most people were surprised when she refused to allow this, as she is very right- wing.). The point I am trying to make is that I think Mary would have to be accused of a serious crime, by our standards, to fear life imprisonment here or extradition to a country which would impose that sentence. For instance, if she thought she would be imprisoned for adultery - bearing in mind it is a capital offence in some countries - I don't think she would need to worry that she would be extradited. I should also point out that, as far as I know, most countries in Eastern Europe have similar definitions of serious crimes as our own.

 

Jess - if you look back at my answer about Lestrade, you'll see I was talking about the part you've quoted, and making the point that Mary ( and John, if necessary) could have been protected in various ways, if CAM's threat was genuine. However, we don't know if he really knows people who want to hurt her, or if he would really contact them. Above all, he only says he will contact them if John doesn't allow himself to be humiliated, i.e. the face-flicking. Which suggests it's just another one of his nasty little power plays, like licking Lady Smallwood's face or pee-ing in Sherlock's fireplace.

[T.o.b.y]

Why does this man deserve to live? I don't get the disparity everyone has for this mans life.

 

I don't think it's his life, Jess, so much as life in general. There seem to be quite a few people around who think the fact that he was a living, breathing, sentient human being should count for something, no matter how vile his personality or how evil his plans. And while I myself am perfectly happy with Sherlock shooting him (very happy...), I cannot but honor that attitude, which I certainly share where real life is concerned.

 

Everybody deserves to live. Even in the Sherlock universe, the death of Magnussen was wrong and even Mycroft calls it murder. Nobody in the series claimed it was a good deed. Not even Sherlock himself did! It was a terribly necessity.

 

 

[Slithytove]

I hesitate to quote "the Lord of the Rings", as I'm a fan but I know a lot of people aren't, but Gandalf's remark in "The Fellowship of the Ring" seems appropriate. When Frodo says that it was a pity that Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance, the wizard replies:

 

"Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."

 

I'm not saying that CAM should be pitied but I do agree that we can't give life to many who deserve it and shouldn't be too keen to sentence people to death. It applies to Sherlock, and perhaps even more to Mary who appears to feel no remorse for anything.

 

Sorry if I'm babbling. Family flew out to the USA this morning. Want to crawl into a small hole and die.

[Zain]

Sure we would!  CAM croaks, Sherlock turns to John and says "Merry Christmas!" I would've loved it.

Hey -- why did he say that anyway? Are we all on the wrong track? He didn't shoot CAM to save Mary, he did it as a Christmas present for Mycroft???? Eeep.

 

I always thought it was an intertextual reference to Cabin Pressure. In the last episode of the fourth series Martin (Benedict Cumberbatch) shouts "Merry Christmas!" at another pilot during a job interview when he is asked about his reaction to an imaginative scenario. Just like there has been an intertextual reference to his role as Sherlock Holmes in Cabin Pressure itself (one episode in which he plays detective and misquotes from Doyle's books).

 

 

"Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."

 

I'm not saying that CAM should be pitied but I do agree that we can't give life to many who deserve it and shouldn't be too keen to sentence people to death. It applies to Sherlock, and perhaps even more to Mary who appears to feel no remorse for anything.

 

 

That sure is a strong quote. Thank you for sharing it. It fits perfectly with what I tried to express, but I lacked the ability to put it in such great words.

[Arcadia]

 

Sure we would!  CAM croaks, Sherlock turns to John and says "Merry Christmas!" I would've loved it.

Hey -- why did he say that anyway? Are we all on the wrong track? He didn't shoot CAM to save Mary, he did it as a Christmas present for Mycroft???? Eeep.

 I always thought it was an intertextual reference to Cabin Pressure. In the last episode of the fourth series Martin (Benedict Cumberbatch) shouts "Merry Christmas!" at another pilot during a job interview when he is asked about his reaction to an imaginative scenario.

 

Oooooooh, that's kinda dark, associating a laugh line from Cabin Pressure with -- whatever emotion we're supposed to be feeling when Sherlock pulls the trigger... (hopefully not amusement). Altho I suppose Moftiss might find it funny.

 

Just like there has been an intertextual reference to his role as Sherlock Holmes in Cabin Pressure itself (one episode in which he plays detective and misquotes from Doyle's books).

I love that bit!!!!!!!!!!! I'm thinking of buying the Cabin Pressure CD's, they'd be great for long trips.

[Arcadia]

 

Why does this man deserve to live? I don't get the disparity everyone has for this mans life.

I don't think it's his life, Jess, so much as life in general. There seem to be quite a few people around who think the fact that he was a living, breathing, sentient human being should count for something, no matter how vile his personality or how evil his plans.

 

Actually, for me, it's a little different than that (although I do have a very high regard for the "sanctity of life", at least in the abstract). I don't think CAM deserved to live; I don't mind that he's dead. But I do mind, very much, the cost to Sherlock's humanity, and by extension, the cost to our collective humanity, as a result of the manner of his death. And by humanity, I mean humane-ness, not human-ness. I deeply feel that every time we as a species "justify" a death, even a fictional death, we retreat a little farther into the dark.

 

As I said somewhere else once before, this is a hell of a load to put on a piece of pop-culture fluff like Sherlock. But that's one of many reasons I love this show, it prompts me to think about things like that. Not many things do.

 

Now that I've had time to process it, I'm starting to feel that Sherlock's action was more or less morally neutral. To put it simplistically; the murder itself was "bad", the lives it saved was "good." Although it seems to me Mary needs to prove now that saving her life was worth the cost. Instant karma's gonna get her, otherwise. And if it doesn't, I will.

 

I hesitate to quote "the Lord of the Rings", as I'm a fan but I know a lot of people aren't, but Gandalf's remark in "The Fellowship of the Ring" seems appropriate. When Frodo says that it was a pity that Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance, the wizard replies:

 

"Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."

 

I'm not saying that CAM should be pitied but I do agree that we can't give life to many who deserve it and shouldn't be too keen to sentence people to death. It applies to Sherlock, and perhaps even more to Mary who appears to feel no remorse for anything.

 

Sorry if I'm babbling. Family flew out to the USA this morning. Want to crawl into a small hole and die.

Please, quote LOTR any time you like, the whole thing is brilliant. I've spent my whole life trying to find something that moves me the way LOTR does, but to no avail; it's quite literally unique. And that is possibly my favorite quote. I was so happy when they included it in the movie.

 

Sorry you're hurting, wish I knew something to say that would help. Hope you made them promise to contact you often!

[T.o.b.y]

I hesitate to quote "the Lord of the Rings", as I'm a fan but I know a lot of people aren't, but Gandalf's remark in "The Fellowship of the Ring" seems appropriate. When Frodo says that it was a pity that Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance, the wizard replies:

 

"Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."

 

I'm not saying that CAM should be pitied but I do agree that we can't give life to many who deserve it and shouldn't be too keen to sentence people to death. It applies to Sherlock, and perhaps even more to Mary who appears to feel no remorse for anything.

 

Sorry if I'm babbling. Family flew out to the USA this morning. Want to crawl into a small hole and die.

 

Oh no you don't, you want to stay right here and write more of those lovely posts that always make me want to respond, even if I need to be on my way to work five minutes ago... Sorry. That was probably not the right thing to say. I do sympathize, really. And you have a perfect right to feel sad. Just don't, you know... do anything unwise.

 

Quote Lord of the Rings all you like! Especially Gandalf. I love Gandalf.

 

But speaking of Lord of the Rings, are there any objections to the heroes there mass-slaughtering ork? 'Cause that's a bit how I feel about Magnussen - more monster than person.

 

This all reminds me of one thing I strongly objected to in the otherwise wonderful movies. When Denethor dies, in the book, Gandalf is outside the door, tries to stop him, and mourns his death when it is done. In the film, they made Gandalf as good as kill him. I hated that. I guess the way I hated that is the way a lot of you hate Sherlock shooting Magnussen!

 

As I said somewhere else once before, this is a hell of a load to put on a piece of pop-culture fluff like Sherlock.

 

I know... we're a mean set, aren't we. But thankfully, the writers don't seem to care two straws for our fussing, so I think we can go happily on as long as we please... I love overthinking stuff. It's fun. For some reason, though, if a book or a film or a series goes and does the overthinking on its own, I often turn away in disgust. I hate it when something is self-consciously intellectual. Or even worse, preachy. I don't look to entertainment to be my moral compass, thank you very much.

[Caya]

Sorry if I'm babbling. Family flew out to the USA this morning. Want to crawl into a small hole and die.

 

 

Is there anything we can do? Chat room? Digging up new Sherlock rumors? Cumberbatch gifs?

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

Sorry if I'm babbling. Family flew out to the USA this morning. Want to crawl into a small hole and die.

 

 

 

Now there's a proper way to say good bye to your best friend! You see that, John? This is how these things are done... No, no, no, the airfield scene was fine (for me). But now I really, really want to get Lord of the Rings out, somehow...

 

And yeah, Slithytove, let us know if there is anything we can do. I am terrible at these things unprompted.

 

 

[Arcadia]

But speaking of Lord of the Rings, are there any objections to the heroes there mass-slaughtering ork? 'Cause that's a bit how I feel about Magnussen - more monster than person.

Not from me, because (a) it takes place in a world that doesn't resemble ours and (b ) I accept the logic of self-defense. I'm pretty sure if you don't kill an orc it will kill (or enslave) you ... a bit not good.

This all reminds me of one thing I strongly objected to in the otherwise wonderful movies. When Denethor dies, in the book, Gandalf is outside the door, tries to stop him, and mourns his death when it is done. In the film, they made Gandalf as good as kill him. I hated that. I guess the way I hated that is the way a lot of you hate Sherlock shooting Magnussen!

Oh my yes, I hated that too. And in the extended version, when they have Aragorn kill the Mouth of Sauron.... wrong, wrong, wrong! The good guys don't kill the emissary! Ak!

For some reason, though, if a book or a film or a series goes and does the overthinking on its own, I often turn away in disgust. I hate it when something is self-consciously intellectual. Or even worse, preachy. I don't look to entertainment to be my moral compass, thank you very much.

Hear, hear. Let us think for ourselves!

[Arcadia]

 

Sorry if I'm babbling. Family flew out to the USA this morning. Want to crawl into a small hole and die.

 

Is there anything we can do? Chat room? Digging up new Sherlock rumors? Cumberbatch gifs?

 

Yeah, Slithytove, go check out the Cumberbatch gif that Bendydoodle posted today. That might give you a bit of cheer!

[Slithytove]

Thank you, all of you, for your kindness. Today has been a really hideous day, even worse than we expected. It's not as bad as someone dying, of course, but it still feels like grief. Family should be landing in Wisconsin about now. Hope they are all okay.

 

Thanks also for the link - wow, he is such a stunningly handsome man. And can anyone come up with a really complicated new Sherlock theory for us to argue about? Trying to work out a logical argument is quite distracting. Turns out that Sherlock was right about the benefits of pure, cold logic.

 

The examples from L.O.T.R. show, I think, how annoyed we feel when we think a beloved character has done something which we think he basically wouldn't do. Hence the feeling that some of us have about John in HLV - that, in some ways, he wasn't quite the man we knew and loved.

[T.o.b.y]

And can anyone come up with a really complicated new Sherlock theory for us to argue about? Trying to work out a logical argument is quite distracting. Turns out that Sherlock was right about the benefits of pure, cold logic.

 

"Work is the best antidote to sorrow, my dear Watson"... 'Course he was right.

 

Hmmm... I suck at theories. But, okay, I will try. Hmmm... not a theory, but a question to break one's head over for a while: Can you come up with an alternative solution to the Magnussen problem that does not involve Sherlock killing him? At the time he did just that, I mean. I've read a lot along the lines of "I wish Sherlock had outsmarted him instead." Okay, but how?

[Caya]

Er, one really complicated new Sherlock theory coming right up ... *thinking hard* ... *damn the time, I'm half asleep* ...

 

We haven't been talking a lot about Harry and why she's never been shown yet in the series, have we? So how about that:

 

Harry kept herself away from Sherlock and John because, in one of her alcoholic relapses, she did something bad (what, exactly, is up to debate - bonus points if a theory involves Mary's past) and, knowing Sherlock's reputation (she's an avid reader of John's blog, after all) fears that he will be able to tell by the way she hunches her left shoulder or something. However, the fourth series will force them to meet up and, true to form, Sherlock will deduce her dark secret in two seconds flat. So what will he do? He doesn't want to cause John pain but Mary has taught him that keeping those little nagging doubts to himself is not always the best strategy. Will he reveal her misdeed(s), and if not, will it come to bite him in the arse? Will John even believe him? How will Harry react?

[Caya]

Hmmm... I suck at theories. But, okay, I will try. Hmmm... not a theory, but a question to break one's head over for a while: Can you come up with an alternative solution to the Magnussen problem that does not involve Sherlock killing him? At the time he did just that, I mean. I've read a lot along the lines of "I wish Sherlock had outsmarted him instead." Okay, but how?

 

Law Like Love. Nuff said .

 

[Zain]

 

Can you come up with an alternative solution to the Magnussen problem that does not involve Sherlock killing him? At the time he did just that, I mean. I've read a lot along the lines of "I wish Sherlock had outsmarted him instead." Okay, but how?

 

 

How could I resist such a challenge?

 

1. Using Mycroft's extensive network to collect dirt on Magnussen. Beat him at his own game. 

 

2. Or, what I favor much more, because it would be the courageous and moral thing to do, Mary could have stepped forward herself. Asked Sherlock to contact Mycroft and work out a deal which would allow her to repent for what she did, and he'd ensure she'd be protected.

 

It's not like there was no other solution to "protect" Mary from those ominous, unnamed and faceless people which are allegedly after her for some unspecified crimes of hers, and which Magnussen allegedly has on speed-dial, and which allegedly would be keen enough on revenge to go on a manhunt after her, and which are allegedly desperate enough to believe Magnussen's allegedly non-existant evidence.

 

There's a definite lack of details for such a definite and irrevocable choice of solution. Just too much "if" in there for my taste. If Magnussen isn't lying about those people being after her, and if he is not lying about knowing how to contact them, and if they in fact will be going after Mary after all those years since her intitial disappearance, and if they do believe Magnussen, then they may kill her. That sounds like a dire situation, what to do.... I know,  let's kill Magnussen.

 

Funny, just noticed another contradiction while typing this. Not that it supports what I say above, but I think it is a noteworthy discrepancy: Mary certainly was much more worried about going to prison than about being killed by those faceless persons. Magnussen however threatens to have her killed. Their conclusions about what would happen without intervention do not add up. One of them is withholding information from Sherlock and John, or there's a mistake in the script, maybe due to late editing. It's possible they added Magnussen's threat rather late to give Sherlock's decision to kill him more credibility.

 

Another post you may tear into to your heart's content

[Carol the Dabbler]

Actually, for me, it's a little different than that (although I do have a very high regard for the "sanctity of life", at least in the abstract). I don't think CAM deserved to live; I don't mind that he's dead. But I do mind, very much, the cost to Sherlock's humanity, and by extension, the cost to our collective humanity, as a result of the manner of his death. And by humanity, I mean humane-ness, not human-ness. I deeply feel that every time we as a species "justify" a death, even a fictional death, we retreat a little farther into the dark.

I believe I know what you mean, because I've often said that being kind to "animals" is at least as important to us as it is to them. If we can't show empathy for members of other species right here on our home planet, what does that say about us? And what chance do we have of any rapport with species from other planets?

 

But speaking of Lord of the Rings, are there any objections to the heroes there mass-slaughtering ork? 'Cause that's a bit how I feel about Magnussen - more monster than person.

That's a whole 'nother can of worms, isn't it? Who gets to decide who's a monster? I guess that matches up with what I said about fictional morality -- the authors get to cherry-pick their examples.

 

Family should be landing in Wisconsin about now. Hope they are all okay.

I hope (and assume) so too, Slithytove. Please let us know when you've heard from them. 

 

Funny, just noticed another contradiction while typing this. Not that it supports what I say above, but I think it is a noteworthy discrepancy: Mary certainly was much more worried about going to prison than about being killed by those faceless persons. Magnussen however threatens to have her killed. Their conclusions about what would happen without intervention do not add up.

Oh, goody -- I love contradictions! You're right, it does seem odd. Hmm, I can think of several possible in-universe explanations:

 

1. Mary is unaware of Magnussen's threat. She wasn't at Appledore, and we don't know exactly what threats he has made to her personally.

 

2. She knows about the threat, but either doesn't believe Magnussen or else knows that she has an out (e.g., perhaps the people he believes to be her enemies are actually not).

 

3. She is simply more afraid of life in prison than she is of death. That might make sense if she believes death means "poof and it's over."

[Arcadia]

-

Can you come up with an alternative solution to the Magnussen problem that does not involve Sherlock killing him? At the time he did just that, I mean. I've read a lot along the lines of "I wish Sherlock had outsmarted him instead." Okay, but how?

Okay, I finally found it again; this, this, this is why the shooting bothers me. From an interview with Stephen Moffat, the writer of HLV:

 

Interviewer: I liked, but was surprised that Sherlock kills Magnussen. Is it going to affect him next season?

 

Moffat: (Laughs.) People are worried so much about that! Have we forgotten that John shot someone in the back in episode one? And then had a giggle about it? Do you know what? I would have shot Magnussen.

 

Interviewer: It was the right thing to do, but ...

 

Moffat: I think people who behave like that should get shot. (Emphasis mine.) I don’t have a problem with it. If someone treated my family like that I would kill them and I’d spend absolutely no time worrying about it beyond thinking, It was really messy, wasn’t it? It’s a bit icky when he was bleeding all over there. But f*** it, if you behave that way, what do you think is gonna happen to you? I don’t think that will change Sherlock. He certainly won’t be haunted by guilt. He’s way in control of his emotions enough to say, “It’s time to switch that man off.” And again, he’s friends with John, who was laughing after he shot a guy minutes after he did it. C’mon! These are dangerous boys.

(The whole interview is here.)

 

I kind of see HLV as Sherlock's "Kobayashi Maru" moment, the consequences of "caring;" how does he react in a lose/lose situation? And that's fine, that's a story worth telling.

 

What I don't like, however, is apparently we are supposed to be all "yippee-ki-yay, Sherlock's a bamf, boo-yah!!!" when he shoots CAM. I don't like that interpretation of John shooting the cabbie, either.

 

So, yeah, if that's how we're supposed to feel about it, I'd rather see a different story, one in which Sherlock uses his intellect, not his brutishness, to triumph. Or if he does resort to brutishness, I would like it acknowledged that it is not something to celebrate, but something to grieve. And even better for me; something to atone for.

 

To use his intellect to win requires a different plot than HLV, one which I'm not clever enough to come up with. But I think the two boys who planned the Reichenbach hoax ("Everything was anticipated, every eventuality allowed for. It worked perfectly.") should be clever enough to think up at least 13 non-lethal ways to defeat a blackmailer.

 

The irony is, the image of Sherlock as a crying child at the end implies that Moffat is fully aware that murder, for any reason, is a bit not good. Maybe the BBC has a code of behavior that forced him to put that in? Or the actors and director chose to interpret the script that way? Or Moffat's blowing a lot of smoke in the interview?

 

Sorry, this isn't really the discussion you were looking for, but it bothers me and for some reason I can't let go of it. I kind of wish I hadn't found the article again, now, because I was finally coming to terms with HLV. And now I'm ticked off all over again. I really need to not read/hear anything Moffat says except for acceptance speeches; now that was lovely. Almost humble, even!

[Carol the Dabbler]

What I don't like, however, is apparently we are supposed to be all "yippee-ki-yay, Sherlock's a bamf, boo-yah!!!" when he shoots CAM. I don't like that interpretation of John shooting the cabbie, either.

Amen!

 

A few months ago, you called Sherlock "a juvenile male fantasy," and the two of us agreed that Moffat is, so to speak, the juvenile male doing the fantasizing.

 

I don't know whether his interviews are sheer bravado, or whether we manage to find something in his writing that he didn't intentionally put there -- but I really don't find it necessary to accept his stated interpretation of "Last Vow" (or "Study in Pink").  I'd rather let the characters speak for themselves.

 

[jesskayding]

Ok I'm note gonna quote like 50 posts.

 

 

1. Slithytove, I hope and pray your family is safe & that you have lots of Skype time & plenty of lucky cheap airline tickets to see them as often as possible.

 

2. Mary & Sherlock do feel remorse, just not for CAM. And I feel Sherlock didn't loose humanity in that scene, but gained it in spades.

 

3. I'm sorry but this is one of those scenes where my mind HaS not been changed. Arcadia, I LOVE Die Hard, so yippi kye yay @#%#@*#@%*%#. Or in Sherlocks words, Merry Christmas! I am very grateful & appreciatibe of the gift thst he gave us all.