What about Sherlock's feelings for Molly?

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

I should also add that I have read a LOT of Sherlolly fanfic, and most of it has the characters so out of character that you don't even recognize them.

 

Unfortunately so. In fact, this is why I get extremely paranoid when I post a fanfic I've written even after a beta's combed through it and I've edited.

[T.o.b.y]

  

Poor Molly, I love her, and I think she'd be good for him, but I think he'd destroy her. Unless she changes dramatically. Which I can see Moftiss doing, actually .... Molly the BAMF Amazon!

 

Oh god, no. Please, no. NO! The slapping scene was a step in completely the wrong direction, if you ask me. Like so much in series 3, it seemed as if taken straight from a fan fic, and, unlike so much in series 3, not in a good way ( - "just my personal opinion" disclaimer! - ). Thank goodness Louise Brealey is such a good actress that she managed to pull it off, but only barely, if you ask me (yes, I am aware nobody actually did).

 

I probably glorify Molly, but I think she had been shown to be plenty strong before and a scene like that was totally unnecessary. Molly might be shy, and she definitely has foot-in-mouth disease, and her dating choices suck, but I think it was clear long ago that she is made of pretty solid metal beneath all that. Molly understands Sherlock exceedingly well, considering that she has (had?) a large crush on him. Love is definitely not blind in her case. I think with Molly, there is that crush, that makes her awkward and shy and let Sherlock walk all over her sometimes, but there is also more, there's true, disinterested love and honest admiration, and that lets her see some things more clearly than anyone else, including John, for example. Molly was the one who noticed Sherlock was "not okay" in The Reichenbach Fall, and she got him to admit it and to accept, no, actively seek her out and ask for her help. Molly also understood very well what was behind Sherlock asking her to work with him in "The Empty Hearse". "You're not being John", ha ha. Of course she was. She did not look very surprised when Sherlock called her "John" on the way out of the room with the skeleton, more like "theory confirmed". And it's not until after that that she tells him about Tom, by the way. When she comes to Baker St, she says "have dinner?", quite hopefully (crush talking), and I think if he'd said yes, she might very well have just slipped the ring off and kept her mouth shut. But once she realizes she's just filling in because Sherlock has been told to f... off by his colleague of choice, she takes a step back and puts him in his place in her own soft, quiet manner, even though by then it is evident that she and Sherlock could work out very well, solving crimes together (which, lets face it, is Sherlock's version of dating. Seriously, he's married to his work, and Irene Adler or an occasional fling with the likes of Janine aside, the closest to a love life he's ever going to have in my opinion is let somebody share that marriage). But Molly is not needy enough to be willing to play second-best for anybody, and that is, in my experience with my fellow-women, quite an achievement.

 

Molly also seems to be the only person who notices when Sherlock leaves the wedding. She doesn't go after him or anything, but she follows him with her eyes for a moment and looks concerned, at that is more than anybody else did.

 

I think like Mary, Molly sees through Sherlock and realizes how human he really is, but unlike Mary and like John, she sees the great man and the hero in him as well. I also think she already is a friend of Sherlock's, a very good one, and I don't expect (much less hope) that their friendship will ever become romantic.

 

Yes, I love Molly. I know.

 

 

... he wasn't jealous, he was sad per he was hoping to have Molly as his PA, per he was convinced John was done with him.

 

You can tell from the whole mind palace scene in HLV. The Mind Palace Molly sometimes says "we" where people normally say you - "We need to focus", "On your back, gravity's working for us", etc. So in Sherlock's mind, he and Molly are a team.

 

 

Hmmm... I think "we" in this context means the collective of all the voices that make up Sherlock's inner self. (Maybe that is just because I refer to myself as "we" when talking to myself...)

 

 

I should also add that I have read a LOT of Sherlolly fanfic, and most of it has the characters so out of character that you don't even recognize them.

 

Unfortunately so. In fact, this is why I get extremely paranoid when I post a fanfic I've written even after a beta's combed through it and I've edited.

 

 

If this is any consolation for you, some of the fics I enjoyed the most were very out of character. I guess fanfic writing is like painting, in that your picture is not automatically bad if it doesn't look like a photograph.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I also think Sherlock has always thought of Molly as an equal in the forensic science department. She is very bright though socially awkward....very much like Sherlock only Sherlock covers it with bluster and blow but he told her that he had always seen her....always trusted her and for him that would be a huge thing.  Especially the trust. Yes, he held her at arms length....like she asked him about coffee...and the scene in the cafeteria when he is complimenting her hair and it's all to get his own way. 

 

 But deep down he does like her, that's why he looks so stunned and hurt when she tells him that he doesn't see her...that she doesn't count. Why he is so contrite and ashamed when he goes on and on about the Christmas present only to learn it's for him. 

 

 I don't think he really meant to be mean to her, just didn't know how to handle it without being snarky. He may understand human motivations....but as been said so many times in these threads....with emotions he is totally at sea and clueless. Or at least, tries very hard not to understand them or let them get under his skin where they do so much damage.

[Truthhunter]

Sherlock is attracted to intelligence, both by men and women, for example Adler and Moriarty, but as for anything sexual, well, I don't think he is interested in that side of things at all.

 

Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory is like a younger version of himself....though funnier !

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

And Sheldon and Sherlock have been linked in fandom on many levels.  Sherlock knows what sex is and I'm certain Irene Adler, Molly and Janine found out just what it did or didn't mean to him.

 

 Which makes me think, if he and Janine could bundle in his bedroom and play slap and tickle in the bathroom then maybe Molly wouldn't have had to sleep on her sofa while he was using her bedroom as a bolt hole.

[sfmpco]

Well, BC sees him as hetero, and has said in an interview when asked what he thought happened between Sherlock and Irene after he rescued her that it was "very loving."  That's in his mind about the character.  

 

Asexuality is often a defense mechanism.  Sherlock has a disconnect with that part of himself.  He says he solves crimes as an alternative to getting high, but there was a time when he got high as an alternative to... dealing with whatever his life was.  Solving crimes just gives him another method of avoidance.

 

I like that he plays the violin, that he dances.  Clearly has an appreciation for the arts - although he relegated Mycroft to taking the parents to see "Les Miz" - but perhaps that was just a brotherly noogy kind of thing, because he does like to wind Mycroft up.  Not only does he play the violin, he writes music.  Very artsy and creative of him.  So in the classical sense of the word, there is a romantic in him. And to have the confidence in his own ability to play that he would play at the wedding in front of lots of people.

 

I put the asexuality as a symptom more of his social backwardness from aspergers more than a conscious decision to let crime solving be the ultimate  orgasmic experience of his life.  It may in fact, become Mary who can offer him the non-threatening guidance into proper social etiquette with women and give him a little push in that direction.  With John it's all about doing the brotherly adventure stuff together, and with Mary there is a completely different dynamic.  

 

As for Molly slapping him, I don't have any problem with it.  I don't see it as a step backwards for her character at all. It definitely helped him to sober up a bit in a way that just telling him off never would have accomplished.  Not only that but it was a necessary plot device for her to do it so that it could be used in the mind palace to keep him on focus.  He needed it from her in real life and he needed even more from her in the mind palace.  The first slap in the mind palace didn't really get to him, but the 2nd one shocked him back.  She slapped him three times in the lab, each time harder than the previous, and it's clear that it's the third slap that really stings and gets his attention back in focus.  He doesn't really react to the first two slaps. Only when she has his attention after the third slap does she tell him off and demand an apology to all his friends (herself included).

 

 

 

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Or maybe he just doesn't  like "Les Miz". He does certainly tolerate his parents...barely anyway...until company shows up. He does come an artistic background. i think there is a line in canon about artistic genius taking odd bents.

 

  I never got the idea that he was trading crime solving for sex. I'm not sure it's the adrenaline rush for him that it is for John. But it does keep his mind busy and focused and keeps him out of trouble....well.... But anyway....he has a definite talent and genius for crime solving and while it's very bad news for the criminals, it's a very good thing for London and all those who seek him out for help.

 

I don't have a problem with Molly slapping him either. It shows how much metal she does have. She has grown and knows that Sherlock sometimes need a little forceful direction and inducement.

[Truthhunter]

I seem to recall his feeling towards women, was that they were an inconvenient distraction.

 

I always felt women to him were like kryptonite to superman, in that they would weaken him, making him vulnerable to his enemies.

 

Keeping physical relationships out of his life, allowed him to maintain a somewhat higher sense of awareness, of both people and situations.

 

Any useless thoughts, including those of affection or love, interrupted his precise interpreting of data.

[sfmpco]

Well he does say he's married to his work which means he has traded having personal relationships for the work that he does.

[sfmpco]

PS -- I like your writing, but I'm holding off reading it until it's finished ... cuz, I dunno, I'm like that. Looking forward to it, tho, the way you write the characters sounds right in my head, if you see what I mean.

 

Just FYI, the story is so difficult that I'm afraid I'm just going to completely discredit myself as a writer because there are a freakish amount of balls to juggle.  I'm not entirely sure I can finish it, but I will do my best.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

But not entirely. Mrs. Hudson, working with Lestrade for five years and they seem very close. Yes, with women he is awkward and not good with them. But when someone throws themselves into a line of work or any career there is usually some kind of trigger. Something that compels them. Like the father who's son is murdered so he forms a whole network solely for hunting down those who prey on children.

 

 I'm not saying this is what happened to Sherlock....but there is plenty of speculation in that direction.

 

 I never got the idea that Sherlock Holmes was afraid of women or considered them something to be avoided like the plague...or cryptonite especially in canon. He did say that they were not to be trusted, even the best of them. But he was also very wrathful when they were misused and abused.

 

As was said in canon...and was shown in "HLV"  he had to keep himself from becoming emotionally involved or he lost his head to his heart and became overwhelmed. I don't think he thought love as useless.....it just wasn't for him. He couldn't congratulate John on becoming engaged to Mary Morstan but he wasn't above giving very high praise either.

[jesskayding]

And Sheldon and Sherlock have been linked in fandom on many levels. Sherlock knows what sex is and I'm certain Irene Adler, Molly and Janine found out just what it did or didn't mean to him.

 

Which makes me think, if he and Janine could bundle in his bedroom and play slap and tickle in the bathroom then maybe Molly wouldn't have had to sleep on her sofa while he was using her bedroom as a bolt hole.

 

He wasn't having fun with Janine, he was using her as a means to an end. I don't ever see him using Molly in "that" way.

 

Molly is his friend - Janine is not & has never been.

[sfmpco]

No, not entirely.  This show has so much endless speculation, and it's all valid to point.  No wonder it inspires so much fan fiction.  Good grief, think i saw over 47,000 pieces of SHERLOCK on fanfic.net - far blowing the any other series out of the water.  Okay, I didn't check Dr. Who and maybe that has more.  Still have never seen that series.  Perhaps one day BBC will contractually allow some professional writers to continue to characters in book form. 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

He was using her to get to CAM yes, he was. But he wasn't mistreating her either. Inviting her for overnights and not rushing her out of the bathroom, indulging in a little whhooo-ooo's and throaty giggles.....oh, he was having a little fun......or at least making sure she did. Allowing her to snuggle in his lap and all.

[T.o.b.y]

 I never got the idea that Sherlock Holmes was afraid of women or considered them something to be avoided like the plague...or cryptonite especially in canon. He did say that they were not to be trusted, even the best of them. But he was also very wrathful when they were misused and abused.

 

Indeed. And he treated them perfectly decently. Much better, actually, then I bet a lot of men back then did. He took his female clients seriously as people. He noticed and respected their professions, and he expected them to be rational, even brave. This may be nothing special now (or at least it shouldn't be), but we are talking about a time when a lot of people still believed women to be capable of neither, and where the height in psychological insight was to assume "hysteria" was at the bottom of every female problem, from menstrual pain to epileptic seizures.

 

It wasn't women, but love, romantic love that is, that Holmes turned his nose up at. Love was to be avoided lest it "bias his judgement". Well, we saw exactly that happen in series 3, didn't we. He would have uncovered Mary's secret a lot sooner if love hadn't gotten in the way.

[sfmpco]

 

He wasn't having fun with Janine, he was using her as a means to an end. I don't ever see him using Molly in "that" way.

 

Molly is his friend - Janine is not & has never been.

 

 

He does use Molly but never to the depth that he used Janine, of course.  I do feel like he and Janine had a completely genuine time together in TSOT.  She didn't know quite what to make of him...

 

Janine:  I wish you weren't...whatever it is you are.

SH:  I know.

 

But she was clearly smitten with him, and he wanted to seek her out for a dance, only to find out that he was once again left alone.  He was making a move in a direction of a relationship and was met with disappointment... at least for that moment.   Did he know about Magnussen already?  He either learned at the wedding or just after.  If he didn't know at the wedding, would he have pursued her further?  Hard to say, but the fact that he did pursue her futher, hints that he may have found out where she worked via casual conversation, and so he pursued her after the wedding.  And he apparently pursued her quickly and hard so that within a month of the wedding she was already spending nights in his apartment and knew lots of his personal habits--like the fact that he takes long baths.  Those long baths were probably partly out of avoidance, but he didn't mind that she came in on him while he was in the bath, but it's all for the case, eh?

 

Also interesting is that he labels Janine's being in love with him as "human error" but he never is disparaging to Molly about her feelings towards him.  

[jesskayding]

I was going by Janine: you lied & lied ...... We could have been friends.

 

Honestly that tells me, she was using him too. " I know what kind of man you are "

 

They were both too busy using each other to be friends..

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

Also interesting is that he labels Janine's being in love with him as "human error" but he never is disparaging to Molly about her feelings towards him. 

 

  Maybe...just maybe...he meant that we often fall in love with people we really shouldn't. Their either bad for us, or they don't return the affection, the attraction being all one sided. People often make that mistake.

 

I think he doesn't make light of Molly because there are some levels where he feels the same about her. Not romantically...but there is more then just the casual meeting of the minds there.

[sfmpco]

In many ways Molly would make a great part of his team in a bigger way because she absolutely doesn't flinch at the things he has to look at.  Death doesn't bother her, dissection doesn't bother her.  She is unflinching.  She would, in fact, probably make a great forensic detective, plus she's got all the pathology experience behind her.  She's very much a colleague in that way, an equal.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Well she is learning from Sherlock, especially that one day with him on the job, so who knows. Maybe one day there will be a CSI Baker Street.

[jesskayding]

 

 

Also interesting is that he labels Janine's being in love with him as "human error" but he never is disparaging to Molly about her feelings towards him.

Maybe...just maybe...he meant that we often fall in love with people we really shouldn't. Their either bad for us, or they don't return the affection, the attraction being all one sided. People often make that mistake.

 

I think he doesn't make light of Molly because there are some levels where he feels the same about her. Not romantically...but there is more then just the casual meeting of the minds there.

 

Yeah fox, I agree. Per he would've been telling John, his love for him is human error. We all know he's not " using " John.

[sfmpco]

Actually he does use John... he experiments on John!  Some of which we know about and some of which we don't.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Absolutely. Twice in "The Hound" the coffee and the lock up in the lab and then the Wednesday that John forgot.

[jesskayding]

He doesn't use him the way he used Janine. So you really think he's telling John that its human error for him to be his friend. Fox I was agreeing with you?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Does Sherlock say that John is making the human error? I don't remember that reference. All I'm saying is that one point Sherlock did use John. But that was rather early on in their friendship. We really don't know when it was that Sherlock gave John the compounds that made him lose a whole Wednesday. But yes John became Sherlock's true friend more than Janine will ever be. Although Mofftiss said in an interview after "HLV" aired that once in awhile if Sherlock ever needs a date that Janine would probably go out with him after being snarky about it first.