What about Sherlock's feelings for Molly?

[Arcadia]

 

PS -- I like your writing, but I'm holding off reading it until it's finished ... cuz, I dunno, I'm like that. Looking forward to it, tho, the way you write the characters sounds right in my head, if you see what I mean.

 

Just FYI, the story is so difficult that I'm afraid I'm just going to completely discredit myself as a writer because there are a freakish amount of balls to juggle.  I'm not entirely sure I can finish it, but I will do my best.

 

Oh noes!!  Juggling balls in the story, or juggling balls in life? Cuz if it's the former, just breathe and give yourself time. Break it up into smaller pieces. And all those other bits of good advice I'm sure you've heard a million times already.

 

As an artist I know how hard it can be to finish something when it's fighting you, but I learn soooooo much if I make myself complete it anyway, even if it doesn't quite turn out how I want. So hang in there!

[jesskayding]

Okay so I wasn't saying that Sherlock said to John that he was making human error. I'm saying based of you guys logic - that's what you all are saying.

[Carol the Dabbler]

The Mind Palace Molly sometimes says "we" where people normally say you - "We need to focus", "On your back, gravity's working for us", etc. So in Sherlock's mind, he and Molly are a team.

 

That's an interesting interpretation.  I'm not sure whether to take it that way or as the Medical "we" -- as in "... and how are we feeling this morning?"  Maybe a bit of each?

 

Of course, that isn't really Molly, it's Sherlock's internalized Molly, which reminds me of the old line that the only ones truly entitled to use the Royal "we" are people with tapeworms.  Mind-Palace Molly's "we" may refer to Sherlock plus the copies of people that he keeps in his head.

 

[jesskayding]

Hmmm.

[sfmpco]

One of my Youtube favs:

 

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

 

The Mind Palace Molly sometimes says "we" where people normally say you - "We need to focus", "On your back, gravity's working for us", etc. So in Sherlock's mind, he and Molly are a team.

 

That's an interesting interpretation.  I'm not sure whether to take it that way or as the Medical "we" -- as in "... and how are we feeling this morning?"  Maybe a bit of each?

 

Of course, that isn't really Molly, it's Sherlock's internalized Molly, which reminds me of the old line that the only ones truly entitled to use the Royal "we" are people with tapeworms.  Mind-Palace Molly's "we" may refer to Sherlock plus the copies of people that he keeps in his head.

 

 

Although I don't think the whole "we" thing applies to the Mind Palace Anderson (ew) and Sherlock.

[jesskayding]

Sfmpco, you've posted video on like 1/2 the threads on the forum ... What is really going on?

[T.o.b.y]

 

Yeah. I like Lestrade. I hope he & Molly begin dating in season 4. Oh, something shocking would be as they go in for a kiss, something happens with some type of explosion. They die happy.

 

Eh hem.  No.  Sherlock and Molly.  I am a Sherlolly shipper for sure.  LOL.  Plus, I think the show is building it into their canon.  There's even a theme music for the two of them.  Something's going down between them in S4.  

 

Hmmm. And they got rid of Tom pretty fast, too (thank goodness, if you ask me - Molly deserves better). You may well be right.

 

Not that I hope you are right. I still maintain that it is fundamentally weird and wrong to stuff Sherlock Holmes into a traditional full-blown romantic relationship with all the fittings. I mean, love affairs are wonderful and all that, but it just goes against the character, if you ask me.

 

On the other hand, so many things that have happened on this series lately I would never have thought could work, and they did. These actors are so damn good, they could probably pull it off. I still hope they won't have to, but they could do it.

[sfmpco]

Yes, they got rid of Tom very fast, but then he was only a Sherlock substitute anyhow.

 

I'm not looking for a full blown Sherlock romance - his character is alien from that point - but I can see him at least dabbling with a deeper friendship with her, even if stumbling and failing...but learning and growing from it.  No matter what, she is the one who keeps his secrets more than anyone.  He trusts her more than anyone, more even, I daresay, than John.  She is the safest person for him in his life, and I hope that he will understand that and allow her a deeper place in his heart and life... but I do suspect that it would be slightly disastrous and painful for both, but even so, I hope that they continue to strengthen and deepen that relationship.  She brings out the most genuine, human moments in him.  "Pain.  Heartbreak.  Loss.  Death.  It's all good.  It's all good."  I think S4 will have something deeper between them but that there will be heartbreak for both for some reason.

 

And btw, I think we can thank Janine for bringing him one step closer to what is "a bit not good" in a relationship with a woman, because i think he realized he really did wrong by her and may have learned a bit of a lesson from that.

[T.o.b.y]

I'm not looking for a full blown Sherlock romance - his character is alien from that point - but I can see him at least dabbling with a deeper friendship with her, even if stumbling and failing...but learning and growing from it.  No matter what, she is the one who keeps his secrets more than anyone.  He trusts her more than anyone, more even, I daresay, than John.  She is the safest person for him in his life, and I hope that he will understand that and allow her a deeper place in his heart and life... but I do suspect that it would be slightly disastrous and painful for both, but even so, I hope that they continue to strengthen and deepen that relationship.  She brings out the most genuine, human moments in him.

 

Ah, I think I understand what you mean.

 

I don't know if Sherlock trusts Molly more than John, but certainly in a different way. And I think with Molly, Sherlock has the advantage being free from the "two alpha males in the same room" syndrome, which he definitely has going with John. He can let down his guard with her much more easily, he can afford to be vulnerable in her presence.

 

Molly is a phenomenon. All the other major characters have some kind of Doyle precedent that lets me believe I know sort of where the story will be going with them and what their role is in Sherlock's life, but Molly is unchartered waters. And if I understand what I have heard about her character in interviews and such like correctly, she wasn't planned, she just kind of evolved into this special person and crept into her little place near the great detective's heart unnoticed, until it was "too late", so to speak.

 

There is a lot to like about Sherlock and Molly's relationship as it stands now. For example the fact that she still has a crush on him, and he knows it, and she knows he knows, and they almost openly talk about that without resolving the issue. It's just there, and they both accept it and respect each other. That's beautiful. That's the real dream come true for me as someone who has been in Molly's shoes (and who hasn't). I wouldn't have necessarily wanted to be loved back, at least not in "that way", because it would have meant the other person fundamentally changing. But I would have given anything to just be appreciated for myself and my feelings. Anything.

 

It's also really funny that theoretically, John is the best friend and Molly the love interest, but we see Sherlock going to her for advice on how to arrange a night out with him. Nothing is simple on this show. All the characters and the way they interact have an unusual twist and turn. I love that.

 

To end this long ramble, here's a very nice picture from my second favorite scene with her (my favorite is when she points out that Sherlock looks sad in The Reichenbach Fall, where she says "I don't count". And then of course later when he goes to her for help).

 

 

Molly, I love you.

 

[T.o.b.y]

And while we're at it, here's another really nice one:

 

 

 

Thank you Molly for looking beautiful, yet normal. Not like a TV woman, but like a real one.

[jesskayding]

Sorry. She's still not Sherlock material, in my opinion based on what Sherlock is into. If the writers did that, they would be conceding to fans. Would no longer be about Sherlock. That would be really disappointing for me personally.

[sfmpco]

Who is to say what Sherlock is "into"?  Plus the fact that the writers have already put all the new canon with Molly into place is not an accident.  Irene was certainly "the woman" as far as some things went but Irene never got him to apologize and be human, nor did he trust Irene to keep his secret death for two years or to help him cover up his death to begin with.  And if Molly hadn't been engaged to Tom in TEH, their little sweet conversation and relationship may have taken a new turn right there, because the two of them bonded in a new way that day.

 

Even Janine held more promise of a true relationship than Irene ever did.

 

I do think as he develops and becomes more human by allowing some emotional development into his life, that a natural part of that is going to be exploring a relationship with a woman, even an intimate one.  I'm not saying that an episode would dwell on it, but the creators are forging new territory and canon all the time.  Sherlock is learning to experience love.  He loves John, his one true best friend.  He loves (adores!) Mary, he has a deep friendship with Lestrade, he loves Mrs. Hudson, and in his own way he loves Molly (I did not say "in love" with Molly).  However it is handled, it won't be in such a way that we turn on Sherlock and say, "You are such a jerk!"  We did think he was a jerk with Janine, but there wasn't anything real between them, but if he had something real and meaningful and then did something really asinine to ruin it, that would be a bit of a problem.  But that's where I think it could go... he could start something that is genuine but discover it is too much for him.  He's not emotionally prepared for the ramifications.  If he ever treated Molly like a one-night stand, she would be devastated, and I think her devastation would really affect him and throw him off.  But I can see that exact thing happening in S4.  That among the many other things that will happen with John and Mary.  

 

At heart we have to remember - it is not a detective show.  It is a show ABOUT a detective.  His cases are fun but he's far more delightfully interesting.

 

And... I should add that if Irene is "the woman" then Moriarty is "the criminal" - and I suspect he found the things Moriarty did, especially in TGG, to be far more titillating.  

[sfmpco]

And while we're at it, here's another really nice one:

 

 

 

Thank you Molly for looking beautiful, yet normal. Not like a TV woman, but like a real one.

 

Yes, I love that moment.  

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

Sorry. She's still not Sherlock material, in my opinion based on what Sherlock is into. If the writers did that, they would be conceding to fans. Would no longer be about Sherlock. That would be really disappointing for me personally.

 

I think that if the writers did make Sherlock/Molly canon, it wouldn't just be fanservice. It would be another thing to hurt the audience with, you know -- then again, there is a really, reeeeaaally fine line between fanservice/just making the audience cry and doing something as part of the storyline.

[sfmpco]

So far I think they have walked that fine line perfectly well.  They seem to actually relish how fine they can make that line.

[Arcadia]

I think if I could see Sherlock and Molly have a good hearty laugh together, the way he and John have a few times, I would be happy. Laughter's very bonding but not necessarily in a romantic way.

[sfmpco]

Well, Irene never got a kiss on screen, and so far Molly's gotten two on the cheek and then the whopper fake kiss, and Mrs. Hudson got kisses on the cheeck.  Janine got some decent kisses but she was the initiator and they weren't anything to him except an act.  And Mrs. Hudson got kissed on the cheek.  Even his own mother's touch to his face was quickly shut down when he shut the door on her.  No PDAs from the parents allowed!  But he's relaxing a bit on the PDAs.  A bit.

[Arcadia]

Okay, I give, what's a PDA? I thought it was an electronic device, but obviously I'm wrong.....

[sfmpco]

PDA = public display of affection

[Arcadia]

Thanks!

[Carol the Dabbler]

I find myself agreeing with all of you.  I can't imagine Sherlock actually settling down in domestic bliss.  But that doesn't mean he has no feelings and no curiosity.  I believe either Moffat or Gatiss said they don't think Sherlock is actually a virgin -- they don't know for sure, but can't imagine that he would be.  So he presumably has some sort of experience -- whether romantic or merely physical, who knows?  Whatever it was, though, it must not have been what he was looking for.  In fact, that experience may have been one reason that he now suppresses his emotions.

 

It would be kind of cool to see Molly gently coax him out of that shell, help him rediscover his feelings, re-integrate him as a human being.  I doubt that it could last, not as a romance, but it could add a new dimension to their continuing relationship.

 

Then -- maybe in Series 5 -- Molly can find true love with Greg. 

 

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

I think if Sherlock were to have a relationship, it wouldn't be the cuddly fluffy kind. More like the crazy kind that involves insane joyrides, running around like madmen, and is blissful but definitely not domestic.

[sfmpco]

Interesting that in this interview at 35:38, the question of Molly comes up in the form of a Molly/Mary spin-off, and NO ONE  on the panel thinks anything of the assumption of Molly/Sherlock as a couple.  It just is what it is.

 

[T.o.b.y]

Hey, thanks for that link, I hadn't seen that. It has some very funny moments. They're lovely interview givers. (Also note, btw, that Moffat calls Sherlock "one of the most asexual characters on television" - for which I am profoundly grateful, because no matter whether it is Molly or whoever, I really, for some reason I cannot quite fathom, do not want to see Sherlock Holmes have sex with anybody. Unless maybe Irene Adler, and even then I am not interested in the details).