Sherlock's relationship with women

[Pamela]

Nononono....Jess....that wasn't canon....at least not according to Doyle. That was someone trying to figure out how many wives Dr. John H. Watson did have. We know that in canon he had two. I think Mrs. Hudson was a shot in the dark and a very bad one at that.

Thank you so much, Fox, for saying that.  If you hadn't, I would have.  Someone has to come to ACD's defense.

 

I'm a Sherlockian from way back (further back than I care to remember).  So believe me, I know.

 

And yes, Jess, I'm sure.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Oh I'm very sure, Jess. Doyle never ever mentioned one Dr. John H. Watson marrying one Mrs. M. Hudson, ever.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

If Mofftiss were to go there, I think all of the fandom would be up in arms ready to riot (with maybe a few exceptions).

[jesskayding]

 

Nononono....Jess....that wasn't canon....at least not according to Doyle. That was someone trying to figure out how many wives Dr. John H. Watson did have. We know that in canon he had two. I think Mrs. Hudson was a shot in the dark and a very bad one at that.

Thank you so much, Fox, for saying that.  If you hadn't, I would have.  Someone has to come to ACD's defense.

 

I'm a Sherlockian from way back (further back than I care to remember).  So believe me, I know.

 

And yes, Jess, I'm sure.

 

 

 

Oh I'm very sure, Jess. Doyle never ever mentioned one Dr. John H. Watson marrying one Mrs. M. Hudson, ever.

 

 

If Mofftiss were to go there, I think all of the fandom would be up in arms ready to riot (with maybe a few exceptions).

 

 

Ok, caaaaaaaalm DowN. Geeesh.   

[Carol the Dabbler]

Are you sure about that Fox? They seemed pretty sure that Mrs. Hudson was much younger in cannon & that Dr. Watson definitely married her @ some point after his marriage to Mary. Don't get me wrong, I said above gross! I was just wondering if anyone felt that Steven & Mark would go there.?

 

Maybe they were thinking of that recent Russian television series.  Their Mrs. Hudson is fairly young, and Dr. Watson seems to take a shine to her (and that's just in the first episode).

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

 

Nononono....Jess....that wasn't canon....at least not according to Doyle. That was someone trying to figure out how many wives Dr. John H. Watson did have. We know that in canon he had two. I think Mrs. Hudson was a shot in the dark and a very bad one at that.

Thank you so much, Fox, for saying that.  If you hadn't, I would have.  Someone has to come to ACD's defense.

 

I'm a Sherlockian from way back (further back than I care to remember).  So believe me, I know.

 

And yes, Jess, I'm sure.

 

 

 

Oh I'm very sure, Jess. Doyle never ever mentioned one Dr. John H. Watson marrying one Mrs. M. Hudson, ever.

 

 

If Mofftiss were to go there, I think all of the fandom would be up in arms ready to riot (with maybe a few exceptions).

 

 

Ok, caaaaaaaalm DowN. Geeesh.   

 

 

 

Why calm down?  We're crazy Sherlockians...at least crazy to some degree. I mean how many fan sites for 1 fandom would have emoticons for 2 other fandoms plus all the normal emoticons (some in duplicate and/or variations).  

[T.o.b.y]

 

Are you sure about that Fox? They seemed pretty sure that Mrs. Hudson was much younger in cannon & that Dr. Watson definitely married her @ some point after his marriage to Mary. Don't get me wrong, I said above gross! I was just wondering if anyone felt that Steven & Mark would go there.?

 

Maybe they were thinking of that recent Russian television series.  Their Mrs. Hudson is fairly young, and Dr. Watson seems to take a shine to her (and that's just in the first episode).

 

 

 

?

 

Oh well, if the internet has taught me one thing, it is that no pairing is so odd that nobody ships it...

[Carol the Dabbler]

Hey, check out the first episode, T.o.b.y -- there's a video link on this thread, and it's got English subtitles.

 

[Boton]

I think Irene Adler, in this incarnation, is intended to be Sherlock's mirror.  Not his opposite, but his reflection, flipped.  In that way, she shows Sherlock and us about his internal character.

 

I agree with her when she said that any disguise winds up being a self-portrait, and both of them walk around in disguise all day, every day.  Irene is an intelligent, curious woman who chooses to present herself as wholly, aggressively sexual.  She wants people to be unable to see beyond the smokescreen of naked flesh and recreational scolding to her emotions inside.  Her intellect is something that Sherlock can pique and engage to get her interested, which ultimately leads to her emotional involvement.

 

Conversely, Sherlock presents himself as wholly intellectual (and, I believe, he is highly sexual).  He wants people to be unable to see beyond the smokescreen of rapid deductions and social maladjustment to his emotions inside.  Irene piques his sexual side, drawing him in and getting him interested, which ultimately leads to his emotional involvement.  And I think she won, ultimately.  I mean, it's one thing to have someone like you well enough to change their phone password; it's quite another to inspire someone to travel into a group of terrorists and save you from a beheading.

 

I read once this description of a classical conception of soul mates.  The idea was that every person is "conceived" with their soul joined to another, a literal mating.  The souls would be split apart by the gods and sent to be born on Earth, where they would spend their lives with the desire to find their missing half.  If you found your soul mate, you would recognize him or her nearly instantly, because this is the other half of your being.  In some ways, I think of Irene and Sherlock as this kind of "soul mate," and I tend to use Irene as a way to interpret Sherlock's character.

 

 

[jesskayding]

I think Irene Adler, in this incarnation, is intended to be Sherlock's mirror. Not his opposite, but his reflection, flipped. In that way, she shows Sherlock and us about his internal character.

 

I agree with her when she said that any disguise winds up being a self-portrait, and both of them walk around in disguise all day, every day. Irene is an intelligent, curious woman who chooses to present herself as wholly, aggressively sexual. She wants people to be unable to see beyond the smokescreen of naked flesh and recreational scolding to her emotions inside. Her intellect is something that Sherlock can pique and engage to get her interested, which ultimately leads to her emotional involvement.

 

Conversely, Sherlock presents himself as wholly intellectual (and, I believe, highly sexual). He wants people to be unable to see beyond the smokescreen of rapid deductions and social maladjustment to his emotions inside. Irene piques his sexual side, drawing him in and getting him interested, which ultimately leads to his emotional involvement. And I think she won, ultimately. I mean, it's one thing to have someone like you well enough to change their phone password; it's quite another to inspire someone to travel into a group of terrorists and save you from a beheading.

 

I read once this description of a classical conception of soul mates. The idea was that every person is "conceived" with their soul joined to another, a literal mating. The souls would be split apart by the gods and sent to be born on Earth, where they would spend their lives with the desire to find their missing half. If you found your soul mate, you would recognize him or her nearly instantly, because this is the other half of your being. In some ways, I think of Irene and Sherlock as this kind of "soul mate," and I tend to use Irene as a way to interpret Sherlock's character.

 

Yes,yes,yes... Preach it sistah! ( imagine me waving my hand over my head in an almost jazz hand like fashion )... You took me to church just now Boton.

[Boton]

Made a little edit up there.  My parenthetical remark about Sherlock should have read "and, I believe, he is highly sexual."

[SherlockedCAMPer]

There is something about his interaction with Irene when he goes to take her pulse where the sexual side seems to start showing itself even if it is just a little bit.  He seems really intrigued by her so it starts to come out.  But the way Sherlock works, he could have put on a good show during that scene.

[T.o.b.y]

I think the most blatantly sexual scene in A Scandal in Belgravia was Sherlock's face when he's drugged and she's dragging the whip over his face. That expression, I've seen that, and I certainly do not sleep with Sherlock Holmes, nor do my, ahem, marital activities, include syringes or weapons of any kind.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Will have to check that out again once I get home tonight.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Having just watched the episode again.  I can see from Irene's point of view why the whip & drugged scene at her place is more sexual.  From Sherlock's interaction, I go with the scene at the flat.  Part of me wonders what would have happened had Mrs. Hudson not interrupted.

[Carol the Dabbler]

D'you suppose Sherlock heard Mrs. Hudson answering the door and talking with the men downstairs, and realized that he and Irene would soon be interrupted?  And maybe that's why he chose to come out of his reverie at just that point?  And/or maybe that's why he lead her on so?  In either case, maybe knowing that he'd be "rescued" before he'd have to commit himself was what encouraged him to let things get a little awkward and see what Irene would do.

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

That is a good possibility Carol.  Hadn't thought of that.  What we know of Sherlock, that is quite possible.

[Boton]

 

 

Having just watched the episode again.  I can see from Irene's point of view why the whip & drugged scene at her place is more sexual.  From Sherlock's interaction, I go with the scene at the flat. 

 

Both of them are leading with their "disguise."  Irene was able to pique Sherlock's interest by being a dominatrix; Sherlock could pique hers by being an intellectual.  Both of them, IMHO, found the activities sexually stimulating.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I can totally see that Boton.

[avoca]

 

 

I like how Sherlock has come to have real affection for Molly and see her as more than just the girl with the crush on him. But I see this affection as the same he has for John, Lestrade, Mrs Hudson and Mary. No romantic feelings, just respect and affection that they deserve because they're decent people who show him the same (yes, I do think Mary deserves it, sorry). This is what is so wonderful about his character, his love for people is based on what they really are and not affected by some romantic infatuation or any other nonsense that clouds the judgement.

 

actually I think so far sherlock's feelings for mary (he certainly cares for her and has shown it risking his life) are a reflection of his very strong feelings for john.

 

john loves mary very much and sherlock loves his friend very much: therefore, sherlock has affection for mary too.

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

 

 

Are you sure about that Fox? They seemed pretty sure that Mrs. Hudson was much younger in cannon & that Dr. Watson definitely married her @ some point after his marriage to Mary. Don't get me wrong, I said above gross! I was just wondering if anyone felt that Steven & Mark would go there.?

 

Maybe they were thinking of that recent Russian television series.  Their Mrs. Hudson is fairly young, and Dr. Watson seems to take a shine to her (and that's just in the first episode).

 

 

?

 

Oh well, if the internet has taught me one thing, it is that no pairing is so odd that nobody ships it...

 

 

 

Nobody ships Mitt Romney/Oval Office.

[Arcadia]

Well, I don't know about nobody, but I know I certainly didn't...

[Arcadia]

actually I think so far sherlock's feelings for mary (he certainly cares for her and has shown it risking his life) are a reflection of his very strong feelings for john.

 

john loves mary very much and sherlock loves his friend very much: therefore, sherlock has affection for mary too.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I think she has a personality he is able to like, but I don't think he would have given her a second thought if she hadn't been part of John. Unless she had some utility to him first, like Molly, Lestrade and Mrs. H did.

[sfmpco]

 

actually I think so far sherlock's feelings for mary (he certainly cares for her and has shown it risking his life) are a reflection of his very strong feelings for john.

 

john loves mary very much and sherlock loves his friend very much: therefore, sherlock has affection for mary too.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I think she has a personality he is able to like, but I don't think he would have given her a second thought if she hadn't been part of John. Unless she had some utility to him first, like Molly, Lestrade and Mrs. H did.

 

 

Yes, I think Mary gets the benefit of friendship only by her asssociation with John.  However, he's not willing to throw her on the rubbish heap when she does what she does.  Even as he's about to face severe consequences for shooting Magnussen, he still tells John, "Give Mary my love.  Tell her she's safe now."  So he has actually developed a friendship with her that is outside of his friendship with John.  Even earlier in HLV when he remarks that John has gained 7 lbs and John says 4, Sherlock responds, "Mary and I think 7" which means he is gossiping with Mary about John.  Sherlock calls Mary and they chit chat - something he can't do with John.  Remember from TSOT when SH says "Won't be trying that again." to John.