The Hobbit (the Jackson films)

[Arcadia]

Oh lord, you would have to remind me ... I'd just about deleted that. I may never be able to read Dune again......

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think I could re-read the novel without any problem.  The movie would be a different matter -- but then that movie always was a different matter.

 

[Arcadia]

That was David Lynch, wasn't it? More interested in weirdness than in storyness, imo. The movie was great to look at, tho (except when it was silly to look at.....)

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I think I could re-read the novel without any problem.  The movie would be a different matter -- but then that movie always was a different matter.

 

 

That was David Lynch, wasn't it? More interested in weirdness than in storyness, imo. The movie was great to look at, tho (except when it was silly to look at.....)

 

Which version of Dune?  I've seen 1 version all of the way through and know that there is at least 1 other version if not 2 or more.

[Convict13]

The more I think about one oddity toward the end of Battle, the more I'm beginning to suspect that Jackson has more Middle Earth up his sleeve.

It immediately seemed odd to me that Thranduil advises Legolas to seek out a young Ranger going by the name of Strider, because according to Tolkien's Appendices to LotR, Aragorn was then only ten years old, and living in Rivendell under the name of Estel.  Furthermore, Jackson's modification goes nowhere in this movie -- so it makes sense only as a set-up for the next movie.  BUT that next movie does not seem to be Fellowship of the Ring, because I never had any impression that Legolas and Aragorn were well acquainted before the Council of Elrond.  Also, why does Legolas go off on his own in the first place?  That isn't a set-up for LotR either, because (at least in the book), he is introduced at the Council as a "messenger from his father, Thranduil."

 

 

All I can figure is that Jackson has some thoughts of doing one or more "bridge" movies after all, with

the adventures of Legolas and Aragorn as the unifying thread.

 

 

If he intends to have Aragorn back, he may have an uphill battle to persuade Viggo Mortensen to reprise the role.  In an interview earlier this year, Mortensen did not seem impressed by Jackson's evolving vision of Middle Earth:

 

"In the first movie ... there’s sort of an organic quality to it, actors acting with each other, and real landscapes; it’s grittier. The second movie already started ballooning, for my taste, and then by the third one, there were a lot of special effects. It was grandiose, and all that, but whatever was subtle, in the first movie, gradually got lost in the second and third. Now with The Hobbit, one and two, it’s like that to the power of 10."

 

I agree

there were several parts that were left quite open.  I have to say my least favourite of all The Hobbit and LOTR movies.  

 

[T.o.b.y]

I agree with Viggo Mortensen as quoted above entirely!

 

Anyway, time to be positive about the newest Hobbit film, because I found a theater that shows the original audio version and am going to go see it tonight. Yay! It'll cost me about a week's salary (well, not quite, but like John according to Sherlock, I love to exaggerate) to get there and pay for the tickets (since I'm not planning on going to the cinema alone for once), but hey, I'll do a lot for a glimpse at Middle Earth and Ian McKellen as Gandalf.

 

So: Hurray! Hurray! Here's to hoping I won't find the evening completely wasted.

[Arcadia]

 

I think I could re-read the novel without any problem.  The movie would be a different matter -- but then that movie always was a different matter.

 

 

That was David Lynch, wasn't it? More interested in weirdness than in storyness, imo. The movie was great to look at, tho (except when it was silly to look at.....)

 

Which version of Dune?  I've seen 1 version all of the way through and know that there is at least 1 other version if not 2 or more.

 

Oh, that's right, there was a TV version awhile back too, wasn't there? Couldn't watch it, bored me silly. I was referring to the Lynch (theatrical) version, which had its moments. But Lynch is too far up his own you-know-what to make a decent movie imo, and wow, where did that come from? Shame on me. :P

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Ok so I've seen the director's cut of the miniseries version. I think I may have caught part of the Lynch version but never got into it.

[Carol the Dabbler]

According to Wikipedia, there have indeed been two adaptations (plus a couple of failed attempts) of the novel to date.  I don't recall even being aware of the miniseries (though I see it was on cable, so awareness would've been no help anyhow).  So yes, I was referring to the movie.  By the time it came out, it had been quite a while since I had read the book, so I had no terribly specific expectations, but the movie was a great disappointment anyhow (with the high point being the

sand worms.

Goodness knows what book they had adapted, but it bore very little resemblance to Dune in my opinion.

[T.o.b.y]

Okay, maybe I went to the movies in just the right mood, maybe it was the people I went with, or the cinema (which was sublime and worth every penny with huge red plush seats that you could lie way back in, plush footstools, soft large armrests and a great screen and sound system). Maybe it was me being all sentimental and gooey about these films because I have so many fond memories associated with Lord of the Rings. Or maybe the picture was just really good (I doubt it). Whatever the reason, I had a real blast with the last Hobbit film. I laughed and I cried (really cried, with tears streaming down my cheeks and smearing my mascara until I looked faintly ork-like myself), I held my breath, I muttered abuse at the villains, cheered on Bilbo, had to hide behind my hands for a few fight scenes, and mourned Thorin with all my heart. Even Bard worked for me as a hero, and while I found Tauriel kind of superfluous in the movie before this, I didn't mind her a bit now. It was like reading a Dickens novel in the good old days when I was young and stupid and not everything had to be clever to please me. 

 

So, I bet if I looked at this film cooly and rationally, I'd find it bloody terrible, but I refuse, thank you very much. I loved it. Good-bye, Middle-Earth. I am sincerely sorry to take leave. 

 

P.S.: Legolas was a bother, though, I can't look past that. My friend and I kept rolling our eyes at him and saying "this isn't Matrix, my boy. You're in the wrong franchise..."

[Carol the Dabbler]

Footstools?  Good heavens -- I've never seen those in a theater (movie or otherwise), not even back in the old movie palaces with their chandeliers, velvet draperies, and actual rest rooms.  Sounds like being in your own living room, only with an enormous screen and an unbelievable sound system!

 

I agree with you regarding Legolas.  I loved the character in Jackson's LotR movies, but even then I found his gymnastics somewhat annoying.  In these movies, a cameo scene or two would've been cute (and fully believable), but as a major character (and one who steals some of Bilbo's rightful moments), I find him annoying!

 

I think you've got the best attitude for these movies.  Jackson obviously doesn't think The Hobbit can stand on its own (and as a trilogy, I may agree), so he threw in not only some scenes from the Appendices (which I found interesting in a tediously academic sort of way), but also a whole bunch of stuff that flat out Never Happened.  (And let's not even mention that his obsession with 3-D effects makes all his sets look alike -- except for Bag End, which is still just perfect.)  So OK, bring on the popcorn, and let's hiss the villains and cheer the heroes!

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

The Hobbit got nominated for sound editing for the Oscars.

[Carol the Dabbler]

*sigh*  I was hoping for more, but that's about what I expected -- just technical recognition.  It's a serious shame that there's no specific award for motion capture -- both Gollum and Smaug were amazingly well done.

 

Back when Martin Freeman was cast as Bilbo, I was thinking that he might end up with an Oscar for these movies -- but Jackson took so many of Bilbo's best moments (in the book) away from him (in the movies) that Freeman had far less opportunity to shine than might have been the case.

 

[Arcadia]

Yup. :(

[Carol the Dabbler]

Freeman literally saved the finale of Hobbit for me. I wasn't moved by Thorin's death at all, until I saw Bilbo's reaction. 

It hadn't occurred to me till you said that, but I think Freeman saved the entire trilogy for me.  He's right there in my favorite scenes -- Bag End, Riddles in the Dark, and the conversation with Smaug.  Admittedly he had a couple of terrific mo-cap performances as co-stars in those last two, and admittedly those scenes would probably have been among my favorites no matter who'd been cast as Bilbo.  But his performance elevated those scenes from merely enjoyable to the sort of thing that makes me wiggle all over like an excited puppy (though I do try to restrain myself somewhat in movie theaters).

 

And agreed on the death of Thorin.  It was merely sad until Bilbo came along and grieved his little heart out.

 

Added: As you may have guessed, I'm not real keen on Jackson's "bigger, faster, louder" treatment of the story.

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

And agreed on the death of Thorin.  It was merely sad until Bilbo came along and grieved his little heart out.

 

That was the point where I remembered oh, right, this is a movie, it involves actual acting!

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

... as opposed to, say, beheading Orcs and falling into convenient ravines?

 

[Arcadia]

I never cared much for Thorin in the book (too pompous) but I very much liked his portrayal in the movie. In fact, I thought most of the dwarves were pretty well cast. And of course Ian McKellan is great. But Martin was simply perfect, even better than I imagined he would be. Frustrating, isn't it?

 

The one scene from the book I hoped Jackson would leave out was Bilbo being knocked out and unconscious for most of the Battle of the Five Armies. But nooooo, for THAT he has to remain true to the story....

[Carol the Dabbler]

The one scene from the book that I had hoped Jackson would do something about was Beorn's house, with all the magical critters -- and he did just fine with that.  It's all the stuff that I had NOT hoped for that bugs me. 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I'm watching the theatrical release of Hobbit 1 and will try to keep an ear out to see if the confusticate line is in.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

And checked, Yes the Bebothered and Confusticate is in there as well.  I know we had discussed this some time a few weeks back.  So Peter was nice to include it in the short and long versions of the film like a good director should.

[J.P.]

I cannot stop thinking what an actor of Freeman's talent could do with Frodo in LOTR. It almost makes me cry.

 

As for all Middle Earth movies: actually what I always waited for were the Extended Editions, and not so much for the extended movies, but for the additions. I swear I enjoy that stuff more than the final product. I remember the first Hobbit stuff - I spent 2 or 3 evenings gazing at the monitor with a wide, happy and surely silly looking smile glued to my face. 

The first documentaries were much about forming the dwarf characters and made me care more for each one of them. I remember Bofur stealing my heart in the dialogue when Bilbo wants to leave the company. I wish those established personalities survived the story, they are just fading away.

 

IMO PJs love for effects and grotesque is the greatest weakness of both LOTR and Hobbit.

[Arcadia]

I cannot stop thinking what an actor of Freeman's talent could do with Frodo in LOTR. It almost makes me cry.

 

As for all Middle Earth movies: actually what I always waited for were the Extended Editions, and not so much for the extended movies, but for the additions. I swear I enjoy that stuff more than the final product. I remember the first Hobbit stuff - I spent 2 or 3 evenings gazing at the monitor with a wide, happy and surely silly looking smile glued to my face. 

The first documentaries were much about forming the dwarf characters and made me care more for each one of them. I remember Bofur stealing my heart in the dialogue when Bilbo wants to leave the company. I wish those established personalities survived the story, they are just fading away.

 

IMO PJs love for effects and grotesque is the greatest weakness of both LOTR and Hobbit.

 

Oh, Frodo's such a different person from Bilbo, though, I think they got the casting just right. I might even say that's PJ's greatest strength ... choosing the right actors for the parts (with the exception of Denethor. Not the actor's fault, just PJ's interpretation of the character was way off base, imo.)

 

I love the "making of" stuff too, especially when it's done as well, and with as much love, as the ones for LOTR. I don't think I've seen any of the Hobbit ones yet. I have to really love the movie to invest that much time and money in the extended editions, I'm afraid. I love the Hobbit, but I really love LOTR. :(

[J.P.]

I know Frodo was different. I think Elijah had the looks for the part, but I don't consider him especially talented. 

 

The worst miscast in LOTR to me was Arven. 

 

Maybe you would be able to rent the DVDs somewhere? Or try Ebay... 

The making of Dwarves is hilarious. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I believe a lot of the behind-the-scenes stuff is also available via their Facebook page -- at least, it was while they were making the movies.  I'm with J. P., though, seems like Jackson cut a lot of the best stuff out, so the Extended Edition is clearly the way to go -- which may have been his intention all along!    Naw, probably not, he just needed to make room for the Orc Beheadings (lovely little village, just outside of Isengard).

 

As for Freeman as Frodo *whimper* Oh God, yes!  (I hear you, Arcadia, but as you're well aware, the man is an actor.  He can play different characters.)  However I would have been well content to see him play Bilbo a bit more.  Surely in -- what? eight hours? they could have squeezed in a few more things that actually happened in the book!  Now I'm thinking that in another twenty years or so, someone may decide to remake LotR -- and I know who will be just about the right age to play Bilbo in that!  :D