Favorite Scenes -- open ended

[sherlockandjohn]

One of my favorite scenes is in SoT, where Mary, Sherlock, and John are clustered outside Major Sholto's room, and John is goading Sherlock into solving the puzzle.  First, the "drama queen" accusation, which Sherlock responds to with this perfect "well, I never!" look on his face, and then again when John mocks him with "the game is on -- solve it!"  

 

Funny, that's one of the scenes I feel uncomfortable with. There is something liberating about Sherlock being Sherlock and him not caring about what people think. I can only hope he remains that way, despite people pointing out his flaws.

 

Well, judging by His Last Vow, he doesn't seem to have become self-conscious, so perhaps I'm needlessly uncomfortable with the above mentioned scene.

[jesskayding]

I agree. And you all know how I love the demise of Magnussen, well I finally got around to watching Startreck into Darkness?? Uhm, several of you are big fans of that movie. Kahn crushes the skull of that man, is that better that shooting someone??

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I agree. And you all know how I love the demise of Magnussen, well I finally got around to watching Startreck into Darkness?? Uhm, several of you are big fans of that movie. Kahn crushes the skull of that man, is that better that shooting someone??

1 nice to see you back on Jess. Missed your insight.

 

2 what khan did was not necessarily better. Khan was evil while also having evil done to him. Not sure how it should have been handle in Star Trek but Khan probably felt stuck between a rock and a hard place like Sherlock only he's evil and Sherlock is on the side of the angels.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Khan is evil?  I never saw him that way (in any of his incarnations), and I don't think he did either.  He originally thought of himself as helping the world through a crisis with his leadership.  Admittedly that's a pretty elitist attitude, one that I don't personally agree with, but people are allowed to have different outlooks from me without being evil.  He's definitely pragmatic, though!

 

[Arcadia]

I don't think Khan is evil, exactly, but I do think he is the villain. A somewhat sympathetic villain, perhaps, given his cause, but unlike the Terminator, he does not learn the value of human life and therefore loses his chance at redemption.

 

Welcome back, Jess! Where you been! And did you LIKE Into Darkness?

[sherlockandjohn]

 

I agree. And you all know how I love the demise of Magnussen, well I finally got around to watching Startreck into Darkness?? Uhm, several of you are big fans of that movie. Kahn crushes the skull of that man, is that better that shooting someone??

1 nice to see you back on Jess. Missed your insight.

 

2 what khan did was not necessarily better. Khan was evil while also having evil done to him. Not sure how it should have been handle in Star Trek but Khan probably felt stuck between a rock and a hard place like Sherlock only he's evil and Sherlock is on the side of the angels.

 

Khan is evil?  I never saw him that way (in any of his incarnations), and I don't think he did either.  He originally thought of himself as helping the world through a crisis with his leadership.  Admittedly that's a pretty elitist attitude, one that I don't personally agree with, but people are allowed to have different outlooks from me without being evil.  He's definitely pragmatic, though!

 

I probably have to watch STiD again, but wasn't Khan reponsible for the death of a lot of people when some building was blown up..? I don't remember his background story, but I can easily see how that action translates to evil... Or am I remembering it incorrectly?

 

Hm, I really have to watch it again.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

He is evil. He's the baddy in 2 Star Trek movies. The first is referenced in STiD.

[Arcadia]

I probably have to watch STiD again, but wasn't Khan reponsible for the death of a lot of people when some building was blown up..? I don't remember his background story, but I can easily see how that action translates to evil... Or am I remembering it incorrectly?

 

Hm, I really have to watch it again.

To paraphrase BC: "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." Khan is fighting for the freedom of his people, so he can be seen as a sympathetic villain, imo. But he also thinks the lives of those who are not "his" people have no value, so yeah, not exactly a good guy.

 

You should watch it again! A really enjoyable movie on so many levels.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

I probably have to watch STiD again, but wasn't Khan reponsible for the death of a lot of people when some building was blown up..? I don't remember his background story, but I can easily see how that action translates to evil... Or am I remembering it incorrectly?

 

Hm, I really have to watch it again.

To paraphrase BC: "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." Khan is fighting for the freedom of his people, so he can be seen as a sympathetic villain, imo. But he also thinks the lives of those who are not "his" people have no value, so yeah, not exactly a good guy.

 

You should watch it again! A really enjoyable movie on so many levels.

 

Okay, that's how I recall it And I would agree on the 'sympathetic villain' part.

[Boton]

Khan has an internal morality, IMHO, it's just not a morality we like. When it comes to his people, who he views as intellectual and physical equals, he is incredibly loyal and will do anything to save them. Everyone else in the universe, however, is completely expendable.

 

I like Khan, and I even like Reboot Khan, which I wouldn't have expected myself to do.

[T.o.b.y]

I like Khan, and I even like Reboot Khan, which I wouldn't have expected myself to do.

 

It's kind of hard not to, if you ask me... Apologies to all Star Treck fans, but for me, he was the only half way compelling character in Into Darkness.

 

Back to Sherlock? Okay?

 

Favorite scenes. Hmmmm, favorite scenes. Gosh, it would be easier for me to list the few scenes I don't particularly like.

 

My impression is that a lot of us like the same ones, more or less, but there seems to be one scene that gets extremely varied reactions, and that is the airfield goodbye in His Last Vow. I love it. I think it's perfect, understated and awkward and quiet and realistic and a lot more touching than any more ostentatious display of sorrow, loss and affection could ever be, but I know that for other viewers, it seemed too cold.

 

Personally, I think if they'd had them hug, I would have made one of those childish "ewwww" faces usually reserved for under-12-year-olds who are forced to watch people kissing. Somehow, with John and Sherlock, I hear Wednesday Adams in my head going "we don't hug".

 

Of course there was this big hugging scene at the wedding, and I didn't mind that at all, but that's because the context was right and it was so extremely well written and acted. I especially love how Sherlock just goes on talking as soon as he can, and John goes "can you wait until I sit down?".

 

I can't imagine Sherlock likes people pressing him close. By this time, he probably appreciates the sentiment conveyed (even though he'd object to the s-word being used in the context of his appreciation), but whenever there's a scene where another character does that, they show him going all rigid and pulling a face.

 

[Schlauer Fuchs]

I like this scene, too. But I disagree about the hugging - I'd have loved to see a hug there. Had they hugged, I think this would have been the first scene in the whole series for which I might have shed one silent tear. There you see how emotionally loaded the whole sequence is in my opinion. For me, it's a kind of emotional torture that there is no breakout of emotions (no hug!) in which I could participate. The emotions are there, but hidden inside the characters and inside me. But that's also what makes the scene really special and so I love it - despite the fact that whenever I watch it, I do my best to silently will them to hug.

[T.o.b.y]

I like this scene, too. But I disagree about the hugging - I'd have loved to see a hug there. Had they hugged, I think this would have been the first scene in the whole series for which I might have shed one silent tear. There you see how emotionally loaded the whole sequence is in my opinion. For me, it's a kind of emotional torture that there is no breakout of emotions (no hug!) in which I could participate. The emotions are there, but hidden inside the characters and inside me. But that's also what makes the scene really special and so I love it - despite the fact that whenever I watch it, I do my best to silently will them to hug.

 

See how differently just we two people see this scene? The first time I watched the episode, I was sitting there going "this is perfect, don't ruin it, you hear? Don't make them hug or say anything sappy, don't, don't, don't!" And then came the formal English handshake, and I let out a deep breath and thought, oh phew, this series has still got it.

 

I particularly like how John looks at Sherlock's outstretched hand before taking it as if to say, seriously? This is it? Also how the camera zooms away at that point. Also that it's Sherlock, the person who is supposed to be so terribly socially inept, who has some idea what to say and what gestures to make to get them both through it with as much dignity and saving face as possible. (By the way, why do people accuse John of being the cold person there? He's the one standing around completely helpless and lost for words. That's not cold, in my opinion. But then, I usually take the less glib person for being the more emotional one.)

 

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

Probably the most heartbreaking part about the airfield scene is when Sherlock says, "Sherlock is actually a girl's name" to get John to laugh. Even though Sherlock is perceived by some as little more than a machine, he does have feelings. And Sherlock wants his last memory of John to be of him laughing, not crying, because he doesn't want their last farewell to be like the other one.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh the emotions of reading your takes on that scene & my picturing of the scene. And it's not even 9am yet for me. (Insert drama comedy faces here)

[Janie]

 

Favorite scenes. Hmmmm, favorite scenes. Gosh, it would be easier for me to list the few scenes I don't particularly like.

 

My impression is that a lot of us like the same ones, more or less, but there seems to be one scene that gets extremely varied reactions, and that is the airfield goodbye in His Last Vow. I love it. I think it's perfect, understated and awkward and quiet and realistic and a lot more touching than any more ostentatious display of sorrow, loss and affection could ever be, but I know that for other viewers, it seemed too cold.

 

 

I love that scene and for me a hug would have totally ruined it. I'm so glad they didn't do it. 

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

Hear hear! *flails arms*

[sherlockandjohn]

Probably the most heartbreaking part about the airfield scene is when Sherlock says, "Sherlock is actually a girl's name" to get John to laugh. Even though Sherlock is perceived by some as little more than a machine, he does have feelings. And Sherlock wants his last memory of John to be of him laughing, not crying, because he doesn't want their last farewell to be like the other one.

 

Hm. Yes, that might be the most heartbreaking part, because your comment just brought tears to my eyes. Seriously, I don't usually cry so easily, but with Sherlock...

 

Anyway, I love the airfield scene. I can't remember being either disappointed that they didn't hug, or wishing that they wouldn't, but I always felt the emotion from both John and Sherlock. To me, it's written in their faces and implied by the seriousness of the situation.

 

The only part of the airfield scene I don't love is when Mary kisses Sherlock's cheek and says, "Don't worry. I'll keep him in trouble". After everything that's occurred, that response to me seems careless.

[Carol the Dabbler]

If she and Sherlock are meant to have similar personalities, though, it makes perfect sense.

 

[Boton]

That scene always makes me really uncomfortable, in part because I keep being afraid the guys are going to ruin it with gushy emotion.  (Which is stupid, because I've now seen it about 54 times, and they never once hug and break down into tears.   )  

 

The restraint is perfect there.  I like the Mary goodbye; she knows that there is something serious going on, and she takes the opportunity to tell Sherlock she'll take care of John.  I'm profoundly glad that the boys kept it down to a handshake and a few well-chosen words.  "Sherlock is a girl's name" seems to be as much a way to lighten the tension as it is a plea to not be forgotten, and "the very best of times, John" is a very fitting good-bye for the two.  I'll take this any day over a bunch of overt emoting.  

 

Mycroft's presence bothers me in that scene, and I don't quite know why.  He pretty much has to be there for story-telling purposes; I assume Sherlock was technically in his custody from the time he was taken from whatever holding area to the time he got on the plane.  But somehow that little sniff at Sherlock wanting to say goodbye to John bothers me; I don't want the boys crying, but I want them to have a chance to say goodbye.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Mycroft may have had some thought pertaining to sentiment and getting involved (along his usual those are not good things to have/do).

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm sure he did.  Poor Mycroft -- good thing he's not lonely. 

 

[Boton]

I'm sure he did.  Poor Mycroft -- good thing he's not lonely. 

 

 

How would he know?

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

Mycroft may have had some thought pertaining to sentiment and getting involved (along his usual those are not good things to have/do).

 

Don't forget his little warning to Sherlock during the wedding: "Do you remember Redbeard?...Have fun not getting involved." Mycroft Holmes knows beans about how sentiment hurts.

[Arcadia]

Purely from the pov of story structure, I also think if we had gotten the big emotional hug, and then the plane turned around, it would have felt rather cheesy. Rather like discovering Trusty's not really dead at the end of Lady and the Tramp .... "I went through all that anguish for nothing??" Of all the things they got right in HLV, for me the ending's one of the best.