What *really* happened in Karachi?

[Carol the Dabbler]

After all the fan speculation as to what might have happened after Sherlock rescued Irene from the terrorists -- to say nothing of speculation that such a thing never actually happened -- the man who wrote "Scandal in Belgravia" decided to discover the truth.  Steven Moffat presented his findings at the recent Sherlocked fan convention, and here is Sherlockology's report on that talk:

 

 

 

"The scene does not take place in Sherlock's Mind Palace, nor could it," Steven confirmed, "He's been told a lie about where Irene Adler is, so he wouldn't have fantasied saving her from a terrorist cell, he had no reason to have to. No, he really does go and save her. He really does that, because if you remember earlier on in the story, Irene says, 'I make my way in the world, and my trick is I get people to be exactly where I want them, when I want them there. That's my super power. That's what I do.' Sherlock a few scenes later says, 'I'm the one guy you can't put a collar on' and at the very end… yep, he turns up dressed as an Arabian Knight and hacks up some terrorists, and Irene's sitting there going, 'Oh yes! Talk to me momma!'"

 

But if that wasn't enough, Steven goes on to explain that he wrote a further scene of what happens after they escape during the time he was writing Sherlock: His Last Vow, the final episode in series 3.

 

"I actually wrote a scene about what happened afterwards, because I got so curious about it. I had Sherlock turning around after he had hacked up all the terrorists, still very cross, and sort of saying, 'I hope you don't think that this means I am in any way interested in you?' And Irene's already got a gun on him - as she picks up a gun from the floor - and says, 'No, but I am going to need male costume to get out of here.'

 

"And so Sherlock is left naked and Irene runs off dressed as him. That's what I think would happen next."

 

So why was this extraordinary scene not included in the original 90 minute episode?

 

"I only wrote it not that long ago, I just got so curious," Steven admitted, "It's not so much about what they did that night, it's what they said to each other. You can imagine him so pissed off, because he lost again."

 

Let's be clear here then, once and for all… Sherlock was indeed beaten by Irene?

 

"Some people say he won; he lost, because he admitted he cared. Having hacked up terrorists with bodies all over the floor, him covered in blood, and he's trying to retain his dignity, saying, 'I was passing and it was a night I thought I'd hack up some terrorists… Oh, you're here, I didn't know. I don't even like you… oh, don't pull a gun on me…' [irene] 'Strip!', [sherlock] 'Oh, it's not fair. I saved your life!'

 

"And something like that happens between Irene and Sherlock every 6 months and THAT is their idea of a night of passion."

 

[J.P.]

Sh**! I don't remember! Or I do remember that he was discussing the topic, but the part about writing - nope. I wonder what the heck was the use of me during the panels?

 

Am I a bad girl if I say that I have some doubts? Steven would probably pass a lay detector test telling you he never lied to the fans.

[Arcadia]

This!!! This thing right here! I need that emotie! I neeeeeds it!!!!! Gimmee, gimmee! TIM!!!
 

Do these guys not talk to each other? Gatiss said he didn't think Sherlock had killed anyone before CAM (or does he believe that terrorists are not people?) Cumberbatch appears to believe Sherlock and Irene ... well, whatever they did, it was "loving". Now this?

I have to admit, Moffat's version rings truest to me, in spite of the fact that the dialog he cites from "Belgravia" was never actually said ..... 
 
But I get what he's saying ... Irene got under Sherlock's skin, in whatever way (it doesn't really matter) and therefore, in Sherlock's way of looking at things, he lost. He lost again in a much different way due to caring about John and Mary. Wow, what a bleak view of life, ugh.

 

I don't buy chopping terrorists to bits, though. He really would have to be a psycopath to do something like that and not be affected by it. I think if anything could make me stop watching the show at this point, it would be if they established once and for all that he really IS a psychopath. That's just too sick.

 

Personally, I think this is further proof that Moffat has a twisted sense of humor combined with a tendency to speak in rather dramatic terms; i.e., a natural born storyteller!

[Arcadia]

Am I a bad girl if I say that I have some doubts?

Nope! :D

 

Actually, I think I've heard something similar to this before, but I can't think where. Something about Irene telling Sherlock to strip rings a bell, though. Plus, it just sounds so.... Moffat. So I'm inclined to believe that's what he came up with. Notice he's not claiming it's "canon" -- he's just saying that's what he wrote as a mental exercise.

[J.P.]

Fans -> 
 

 

Steven -> <- Mark

[J.P.]

[Arcadia]

Thinking about this a bit more ....

The scene does not take place in Sherlock's Mind Palace, nor could it," Steven confirmed, "He's been told a lie about where Irene Adler is, so he wouldn't have fantasied saving her from a terrorist cell, he had no reason to have to. No, he really does go and save her. He really does that, because if you remember earlier on in the story, Irene says, 'I make my way in the world, and my trick is I get people to be exactly where I want them, when I want them there. That's my super power. That's what I do.' Sherlock a few scenes later says, 'I'm the one guy you can't put a collar on' and at the very end… yep, he turns up dressed as an Arabian Knight and hacks up some terrorists, and Irene's sitting there going, 'Oh yes! Talk to me momma!'"

... I wonder if this is a bit of insight into the way Moffat writes ... that is, is what is said onscreen, simply shorthand for what he thinks it means in his own head?

 

In other words, as I read his statements above, when Irene says "I make my way in the world" , to Moffat that means: "my trick is I get people to be exactly where I want them, when I want them there. That's my super power. That's what I do."  When Sherlock says, "And this is just losing," -- to Moffat that means: 'I'm the one guy you can't put a collar on'. 

 

It occurs to me if he would share his personal interpretations with the actors, we might have a lot less confusion ... but where would be the fun in that?

[Boton]

OK, I'm going to go with this:  Sherlock indeed brandishes that sword at the terrorists but manages to threaten/deduce them into fleeing without him actually having to take a life.  He grabs Irene's hand, and they run off to relative safety, wherever that may be.  Once there, the adrenaline gets the better of both of them, and they have a mad, passionate, "very loving," life-affirming...encounter.  As Sherlock is then leaning back in the afterglow, Irene pulls a gun and holds him at gunpoint while she dresses in his clothes and escapes into the night.

 

There.  Gatiss, Cumberbatch, and Moffat, all in agreement.

[sittything]

OK, I'm going to go with this:  Sherlock indeed brandishes that sword at the terrorists but manages to threaten/deduce them into fleeing without him actually having to take a life.  He grabs Irene's hand, and they run off to relative safety, wherever that may be.  Once there, the adrenaline gets the better of both of them, and they have a mad, passionate, "very loving," life-affirming...encounter.  As Sherlock is then leaning back in the afterglow, Irene pulls a gun and holds him at gunpoint while she dresses in his clothes and escapes into the night.

 

There.  Gatiss, Cumberbatch, and Moffat, all in agreement.

 

As much as I don't want to like this, it works.  

[Arcadia]

OK, I'm going to go with this:  Sherlock indeed brandishes that sword at the terrorists but manages to threaten/deduce them into fleeing without him actually having to take a life.  He grabs Irene's hand, and they run off to relative safety, wherever that may be.  Once there, the adrenaline gets the better of both of them, and they have a mad, passionate, "very loving," life-affirming...encounter.  As Sherlock is then leaning back in the afterglow, Irene pulls a gun and holds him at gunpoint while she dresses in his clothes and escapes into the night.

 

There.  Gatiss, Cumberbatch, and Moffat, all in agreement.

 

Hey, what are you doing in my head! That's my solution!

 

While you're here, could you help me with this proposal I'm supposed to be working on? :D (Why is this dang forum so freakin' interesting?)

[J.P.]

And it also explains why Irene took Sherlock's clothes and not someone's of the terrorists.

 

Boton for The Script Coordinator!

[J.P.]

:D (Why is this dang forum so freakin' interesting?)

 

Because you chose us!

[Carol the Dabbler]

This!!! This thing right here! I need that emotie! I neeeeeds it!!!!! Gimmee, gimmee! TIM!!!

I second that!

 

I have to admit, Moffat's version rings truest to me, in spite of the fact that the dialog he cites from "Belgravia" was never actually said ..... 

Hey, he wrote the actual dialog, so he knows what it really meant -- so he can paraphrase it without changing the meaning. (If he wants to. Or he can lie through his teeth!)

 

Notice he's not claiming it's "canon" -- he's just saying that's what he wrote as a mental exercise.

True. In fact, he explicitly says, "That's what I think would happen next" -- not "that's what happened next." But it is good grist for the fanfic mill. And I love Boton's elaboration on it!

[Boton]

 

 

 

While you're here, could you help me with this proposal I'm supposed to be working on? :D (Why is this dang forum so freakin' interesting?)

 

 

Are you kidding me?  I'm supposed to be writing a marketing campaign.  I guarantee this forum is more interesting!

[Arcadia]

Sometimes I hate real life ....

[J.P.]

Real life is boring.

[T.o.b.y]

 

"The scene does not take place in Sherlock's Mind Palace, nor could it," Steven confirmed, "He's been told a lie about where Irene Adler is, so he wouldn't have fantasied saving her from a terrorist cell, he had no reason to have to. No, he really does go and save her. He really does that, because if you remember earlier on in the story, Irene says, 'I make my way in the world, and my trick is I get people to be exactly where I want them, when I want them there. That's my super power. That's what I do.' Sherlock a few scenes later says, 'I'm the one guy you can't put a collar on' and at the very end… yep, he turns up dressed as an Arabian Knight and hacks up some terrorists, and Irene's sitting there going, 'Oh yes! Talk to me momma!'"

 

But if that wasn't enough, Steven goes on to explain that he wrote a further scene of what happens after they escape during the time he was writing Sherlock: His Last Vow, the final episode in series 3.

 

"I actually wrote a scene about what happened afterwards, because I got so curious about it. I had Sherlock turning around after he had hacked up all the terrorists, still very cross, and sort of saying, 'I hope you don't think that this means I am in any way interested in you?' And Irene's already got a gun on him - as she picks up a gun from the floor - and says, 'No, but I am going to need male costume to get out of here.'

 

"And so Sherlock is left naked and Irene runs off dressed as him. That's what I think would happen next."

 

So why was this extraordinary scene not included in the original 90 minute episode?

 

"I only wrote it not that long ago, I just got so curious," Steven admitted, "It's not so much about what they did that night, it's what they said to each other. You can imagine him so pissed off, because he lost again."

 

Let's be clear here then, once and for all… Sherlock was indeed beaten by Irene?

 

"Some people say he won; he lost, because he admitted he cared. Having hacked up terrorists with bodies all over the floor, him covered in blood, and he's trying to retain his dignity, saying, 'I was passing and it was a night I thought I'd hack up some terrorists… Oh, you're here, I didn't know. I don't even like you… oh, don't pull a gun on me…' [irene] 'Strip!', [sherlock] 'Oh, it's not fair. I saved your life!'

 

"And something like that happens between Irene and Sherlock every 6 months and THAT is their idea of a night of passion."

 

 

:D I had heard about this before, but it still makes me smile. I'm happy with the idea of Sherlock and Irene having a weird, somewhat destructive and dysfunctional standing flirtation in their very own way. It's really the only kind of love affair I can imagine for Sherlock - and a much better idea in my mind than Moffat's "headcanon" about Sherlock retiring with Janine at her cottage. That latter one still makes me cringe.

 

But, none of all this is in the script. We only have to accept as "truth" what really made it on screen. Cut scenes were cut for a reason, and other scenes weren't so much as written, let alone filmed, for a reason.

 

I can well imagine, though, should Irene ever make another appearance, that she will bring this occurrence up to annoy Sherlock and / or embarrass him in front of his friends. Especially if she should meet him the company of a lady friend.

 

About Sherlock killing people: While we / I see little difference between shooting a man in the head with John's gun or killing one in battle with a sword, I think there is this tradition in fiction that combat deaths don't "count". Not everyone is a pacifist, unfortunately...

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Then there's the difference between what's perceived by the audience as realistic combat, and what's perceived as fantasy or stylized combat.  The latter certainly doesn't count.

 

[Caya]

Somebody has evidently not been watching Game of Thrones :lol:. Not saying that this is a wrong decision, mind you, certainly not after this season, but their fantasy combat is quite brutal and deadly at times.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I was thinking more of Orc beheadings.

 

[Caya]

Well, they sure got quite memorable beheadings in Game of Thrones :lol:. As for Orcs, there's a rough analogue but I can't spell that out without spoilers.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

 

 

 

While you're here, could you help me with this proposal I'm supposed to be working on? :D (Why is this dang forum so freakin' interesting?)

 

 

Are you kidding me?  I'm supposed to be writing a marketing campaign.  I guarantee this forum is more interesting!

 

 

 

Sometimes I hate real life ....

 

 

Real life is boring.

 

 

I agree that Sherlock is way too interesting.  I'm supposed to be writing a marketing plan for an item that might end up being a marketing funnel for other similar products. Then there's tweaking my website, working on scheduling social media posts and blog posts, and finish a couple of training things that I'm behind on.  Plus there are the paintings I want to start so that they are finished before 8/1 complete with printed photos that will be coming with me 8/1 to an event.  And I need to plan some original paintings that I can sell that won't have a print version available.

[Carol the Dabbler]

My in-laws are coming to see our "new" (ten-year-old) house in less than two weeks -- and I have ten years' worth of accumulated crud to organize.  Trust me, this forum is far more interesting than doing that!

[SherlockedCAMPer]

My in-laws are coming to see our "new" (ten-year-old) house in less than two weeks -- and I have ten years' worth of accumulated crud to organize.  Trust me, this forum is far more interesting than doing that!

 

Just about anything is more interesting than cleaning.

[J.P.]

Shall we close for a week so everybody can finish their stuff? :P