Episode 4.2 "The Lying Detective"

[Pseudonym]

Have you seen this? Wonderfully crazy :D

 

[Arcadia]

Yeah, saw it, pretty awesome. I'll bet Benedict had a ball playing in that.

 

If I'm not mistaken, that's a similar mechanism to the one they used for one of Fred Astaire's dance routines, where he ends up dancing on the walls and ceilings (sorry, can't remember which movie). I saw a documentary on that once, it was fascinating.

[Arcadia]

Plaudits to the music in that scene as well, it really helped sell the whole feeling of unreality and dread.

[Pseudonym]

I really liked that scene, how completely trippy and jerky it is. I've seen them use a similar thing for music videos, didn't know they used it that far back though!

Reminds me a bit of a ride in one of the theme parks here where you're strapped in stands in a creepy room, and the stands and the room tilt and turn in opposite directions until you have no idea if you're upside down, or the right way up, or what the hell is going on. 

[Arcadia]

Really, your inner sense of orientation couldn't tell you if you were upside down or not? Ew, I think I'll stay away from that ride, it sounds nausea inducing! Although I'm not good on any ride more challenging than a kiddie coaster, I'm afraid. (But I luuuvvvvvv those! )

[Pseudonym]

Yea, I hate rollarcoasters etc because I'm a wimp, but that one was is set in a haunted house so you don't go anywhere but the one room. It is pretty sickening, and the only reason I could tell i wasn't upside down at one point was because of the direction my hair was falling - straight ahead. 

[kimber8ada]

Yeah, saw it, pretty awesome. I'll bet Benedict had a ball playing in that.

 

If I'm not mistaken, that's a similar mechanism to the one they used for one of Fred Astaire's dance routines, where he ends up dancing on the walls and ceilings (sorry, can't remember which movie). I saw a documentary on that once, it was fascinating.

The movie was "Royal Wedding" and it was set in London during Queen Elizabeth's coronation, made in the early fifties. The set was built on a huge drum and the entire room turned with Fred dancing the whole time. The camera was mounted on the set and turned with it. I love Fred Astaire. He was very innovative and creative with his routines and use of the camera.

[Arcadia]

Thanks Kimber! That's the  one.

 

I loved Astaire too ... he was truly creative. And he made it look as natural as just walking down the street.

[Arcadia]

Okay, question ... just how serious was Sherlock's drug use in this episode, and was it only "for the case?"
 
He gets the message from Mary to save John (by putting himself in harm's way). The next thing we know, he looks awful, and is actually turning down a case for being "too complicated," which I take to indicate he is using at that point.
 
So at that time, is he using to try to draw John out, or is he using just because he wants to? Because he doesn't have a case yet, so he can't already be plotting out the scheme he uses against Smith. 
 
And if he's using just because he wants to, is he failing to honor Mary's final request, by sinking into his own misery instead of taking on a bad guy? Or is he just waiting until the right case comes along, and using drugs to keep himself entertained until then?
 
And finally ... I think it's fairly well-established that he'd overdone it at one point, after meeting Faith; because Wiggins says so, among other things. But after that ... he's got the case he's looking for now, the one that will save John. And he works out a fairly elaborate plan to get the result he wants. So .... is he still using at that point? Or faking how bad off he really is, and Molly's in on it, and she lies for him in order to convince John that Sherlock genuinely needs help?
 
I know a lot of this can really only be answered by speculating, but I'm curious as to what everyone else thinks. I have to say I'm hoping Molly was in on the plan, simply because I like the idea. But is there something in the story that keeps that from being possible? And what have I missed? (There's always something.)
 
Discuss!

[Pseudonym]

I have the feeling this one will get heated as different opinions clash. I definitely have views on it, but since it's 1am here and I have to be up early it will have to wait until tomorrow! :P

[BLS_Pro]

Okay, question ... just how serious was Sherlock's drug use in this episode, and was it only "for the case?"

 

So at that time, is he using to try to draw John out, or is he using just because he wants to? Because he doesn't have a case yet, so he can't already be plotting out the scheme he uses against Smith.

 

Or is he just waiting until the right case comes along, and using drugs to keep himself entertained until then?

Given that Watson is a Doctor, Sherlock couldn't be seen by John as faking his condition. It had to be real or the plan wouldn't work. Molly was there as a second opinion not the only opinion. And as Sherlock says on his hospital bed he is indeed in terrible shape.

 

The timing of the case and his drug use bothered me as well at first, but it makes sense that he would have to establish his use long before a case came to him. If it didn't start before the case then it would look suspicious. That and it would take longer than two-three weeks to get into a functional but life threatening state. So presumably he began his drug use while he was searching for just the right case. And Faith brought him that case - tailor made for HER purposes - a case which mirrored her and Sherlock exactly.

 

So the drug use wasn't for entertainment purposes, nor is it him plotting against Smith specifically. It is him setting the game-space as it were. Getting things in place while he looked for a big bad bully. IOW he was making himself vulnerable so that Watson would truly believe he was in trouble - which he was.

[Arcadia]

Okay, that sounds good, and you bring up another interesting point ... what was Faith's purpose in bringing that case to him? I think at the very least she was trying to get a sense of what he was like ... but was there more to it than that?

 

Anyone else?

BTW, the whole sequence with Faith is one of my favorites of all they've done. The way he interacts with her, that lovely deduction of the window in the middle of the street, the "**ck off" stroll, his words about suicide, his realization that Smith is a killer ... wonderful! Inventive, funny, a bit scary, and topped with a touch of melancholy... I fell back in love with this show at that point.

[Arcadia]

I have the feeling this one will get heated as different opinions clash. I definitely have views on it, but since it's 1am here and I have to be up early it will have to wait until tomorrow! :P

 

Slacker ... xd

 

[BLS_Pro]

what was Faith's purpose in bringing that case to him? I think at the very least she was trying to get a sense of what he was like ... but was there more to it than that?

Yes, there was more to it.  Think about what case she brought him. 

 

Faith is a mirror of Sherlock.  She is a person whose memory has been intentionally repressed and "corrupted".  She remembers snippets of something - a traumatic secret about death hiding in plain sight, of which there are signs all around.  It is a secret which caused her to isolate herself from others.  Faith's "whole life turned on one word" - which is why Sherlock takes the case.  He takes it because, as he says, 'one word, she instantly recognized, tore her world apart' - and he doesn't know how that is possible - yet'. 

 

Of course that is Sherlock - and the one word is "Redbeard".

 

That is her purpose in bringing that case to him - to hold up that mirror to him.

 

[Pseudonym]

I know, I know, I'm always slacking. I left the 4.3 thread because it was stressing me out and I couldn't keep up with it! 

 

I definitely think the drug use was real, however I don't think it was so calculated. In the beginning maybe, but drugs are a weakness for Sherlock, for all he says he's a user rather than an addict, he is hurting and once he starts taking them as a lure for John it would have been pretty easy for it to get out of control. I don't think he had to get into that state in order to get John to save him, by the morgue scene it definitely seems to have gotten out of hand. 

[Pseudonym]

Also, I think whatever was in that letter Sherlock got from John would be helpful to understanding Sherlock's actions in this ep, but since they never bothered to explain the letter other than what Molly said it becomes pointless. Why not just have the Molly dialogue and no letter? Was the tone of the letter angry? Sad? Just exhausted and done?

[Amber§]

I totally forgot the letter! It's a very interesting point, they put this letter in the end, so it would have passed unobserved to people like me, who were so confused and sad and angry and collapsed under a lot of emotions. It's very weird....I don't think Moftiss simply ignored it in the next episode....maybe we have missed something

[Pamela]

 

what was Faith's purpose in bringing that case to him? I think at the very least she was trying to get a sense of what he was like ... but was there more to it than that?

Yes, there was more to it.  Think about what case she brought him. 

 

Faith is a mirror of Sherlock.  She is a person whose memory has been intentionally repressed and "corrupted".  She remembers snippets of something - a traumatic secret about death hiding in plain sight, of which there are signs all around.  It is a secret which caused her to isolate herself from others.  Faith's "whole life turned on one word" - which is why Sherlock takes the case.  He takes it because, as he says, 'one word, she instantly recognized, tore her world apart' - and he doesn't know how that is possible - yet'. 

 

Of course that is Sherlock - and the one word is "Redbeard".

 

That is her purpose in bringing that case to him - to hold up that mirror to him.

 

 

But it wasn't Faith, it was Euros who went to Sherlock. And the word was 'anyone,' wasn't it?

 

I agree, though, that the real Faith's memory was intentionally repressed and corrupted.

 

Which makes me wonder now, how could Euros know about 'anyone'? I know she'd been given the note, but was the word 'anyone' on the note?

[Amber§]

Maybe she understood what was going on, Sherlock got it, so could her

[Pseudonym]

If Smith gave her the note it's not out of the question he would have also told her what it meant. 

[Arcadia]

Ah yes, I forgot about the note too. Although I think we've been talking about two different notes here, so let me address them one at a time.

 

John's note: the way the scene was constructed, I took Molly's words to be a summation of what was in the note. Sherlock didn't need to read it then, because Molly was already telling him the gist of it. There wasn't any point to the note, really, which is too bad, because why call attention to it if you're not going to use it? Sometimes I think Moftiss doesn't even watch their own program.

 

Faith's note: according to Sherlock's deduction, it had been hidden away for awhile, but then posted where the sunlight could reach it for a few years. Posted by whom? We saw ... and I assume it was real ... that Smith took it away from Faith the same evening she wrote it. Why he didn't then destroy it boggles my imagination, but I don't know how serial killers think ... maybe he thought it was a neat souvenir. At any rate, I'm guessing he's the one who hid it in a book for a long time, causing the sharp crease.

 

But then it gets taken out of the book and posted on a wall in a small kitchen by someone who lives alone and doesn't have many visitors. Is that supposed to be Faith? The real Faith? She's got a billionaire father who dotes on her, she's not estranged from him ... so why would she be living, isolated, in such a place? So is it someone else who has the note?

 

I thought it was going to turn out to be Euros who somehow got hold of it, but then we find out she's living in a windowless cell in Sherrinford. Or has she been loose in London all this time, and Mycroft never found out? Maybe.....

 

Then I thought maybe Moriarty was somehow involved, but they never went anywhere with him either other than to say he and Eurus met once.

 

So ... still baffled about who exactly had the note all that time, and how Eurus ended up with it. Given all that, I don't even care anymore how she found out what it meant.

 

Frack. This was well on its way to becoming one of my all time favorite episodes, and now it has this glaring plot hole. Hellllp meeeeee!!!!!

[J.P.]

Definitely need to rewatch. The other plotline I need to clear, is Sherlock voreseeing the future. We've had the similar element in TST, but because of the tracking device to find Mary, we could think about it as if Sherlock was only showing off. But I don't think it's entirely false, it's only very complicated. It obviously worked in TLD, but I's still like to see how it was suppose to work.

[Arcadia]

Are you referring to the various references to premonitions? I think that was just another bit of foreshadowing ... not even Sherlock Holmes can foresee where every thread will lead.

[J.P.]

But he kind of did in TLD. But maybe there is something that explains it.

[Arcadia]

Well, he predicted how John would react, but I don't think that's quite the same thing, 1) because he knows John really, really well and 2) he controlled a lot of the variables.