Mary Morstan

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

And, if you read a lot of Doyle's history, you will find a lot of "Holmes" there. The family tragedy that never gets talked about outside the home. The mother's supposed infidelity, at least in Doyle's mind. The father's mental illness and drug abuse, Holmes's drug abuse stops when Doyle's father dies.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... and of course you find a lot of Watson in Conan Doyle's life as well.  Fictional characters tend to be fragments of the author.

[T.o.b.y]

I wonder what kind of job Mary will have in her upcoming reincarnation on "Sherlock". In the original, she's a governess. That might translate as a teacher nowadays, but I think that is far from being the only option, because in her time, governess was almost the only vocation available for an educated woman of a certain class.

 

The women who became governesses back then are those who go to university today and after that are able to chose from a huge range of options. So I wonder what they chose for her. If they want to stick close to the original, it can't be too well paid, but that is the only limit.

 

Her personality as written by Doyle is so vague that I expect they'll have to make her up almost from scratch. The only clues I've found so far in "The Sign of Four" and the later stories that mention her are intelligent, sensible, self-controlled, compassionate. And certainly not possessive or dependent on her husband's constant presence for her well-being, as she has no problem with Dr Watson going off with Holmes on his cases for days on end at short notice. She even encourages him to do so. Of course, that could be laid out as her wanting him out of the house. I don't think that was Doyle's intention at all, but if you like, you can see a lot of subtext even unto suspecting her of having an affair or hiding something else from her husband.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think the literal modern translation of governess would be private tutor, but that's not common, at least not over here.  So, yeah, maybe teacher or social worker.  Somebody who works with children.

 

In the original, Watson met her when she hired Holmes, but I don't think that's going to be the case this time around.  Maybe he meets her at work -- she's a pediatric nurse?

 

[T.o.b.y]

It does seem plausible that they met at work. But if they make her a health professional, she will be pretty reminiscent of Sarah (who already came across as an adaptation of Mary Morstan - I was convinced that she was supposed to be her and wondered why they changed the name).

 

I always expected Mary to show up. At first, I thought Molly was going to be her, that her interest was going to shift from Sherlock to John. Because of the name, mostly - isn't Molly a variation of Mary? Well, obviously I was as wrong as can be there.

 

By the way, is there any character in the original whom Molly represents? Man or woman?

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I agree, Sarah seemed to be Moftiss's rough draft of Mary Morstan, complete with most of the plot ("Sign of Four" ==> "Blind Banker").  Thus they're left with the question of whether to make the upcoming Mary like the one in the story -- though they've obviously resisted that sort of temptation before, in "Scandal"! -- or start from scratch.  I guess we'll see fairly soon.

 

Yes, Molly was originally a nickname for Mary.  (And then Polly was a nickname for Molly.)  According to Moftiss, Molly started out as just somebody for Sherlock to play off of in the "start with the riding crop" scene in "Study in Pink" -- but she worked so well there that they made her a continuing character.  Therefore I'd guess that she was not originally based on any canon character, and presumably still isn't.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Back in Victorian times, women were not well received in the world of academics of any sort,The  Edinburgh Medical University that Doyle attended had just started to open it doors to female students but they were not well treated. Not by their fellow male students and not even by most of the all male teaching staff. Dr. Joseph Bell was one of those who applauded their courage and bravery in the face of such opposition.

 

 Nurses that served under Florence Nightingale, during the Chimera War, doing many of the surgeries themselves came back to an England that still regarded women as inferior in medicine and were forced back into the role of the menial worker in the hospital wards.

 

  It could be that Molly is meant to be a salute to these brave and determined women?

[aely]

I'm sorry, but this typo makes me think of Doctor Who....

 

 

 

Nurses that served under Florence Nightingale, during the Chimera War,

 

  

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Oh well color me lazy! But when spell checker accepted it I didn't question it.

 

  It's Crimean War.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Chimera War sounds a whole lot more interesting! 

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I think I read a fantasy novel about a Chimera War....or it might have been a LARP I did back many moons ago.

[T.o.b.y]

So, now we've actually had glimpses of Mary and I just saw a snip of an interview with the actress where she says the character isn't "divisive" and that Mary and Sherlock take to each other almost instantly.

 

At first, I was disappointed. No, I have not suddenly joined the "I want the male leads to be a couple" crowd, that's not the reason. I just heard "harmony alert" and my prickly nature, which had been very much pleased by the dynamic between John, Sarah and Sherlock in The Blind Banker, rebelled. But, what I want most from "Sherlock" is a faithful adaptation of the spirit of Doyle's stories. And there, even though he does not act pleased when the wedding is announced, Holmes makes it very clear in almost the same breath that he likes Miss Morstan and respects her. In all later stories, whenever she is mentioned, Holmes never says anything to the contrary and he often comments indirectly on Watson's happy marriage (for example by comparing it favorably with some of his clients' relationships). She is even mentioned in his good-bye letter to Watson before he confronts Moriarty. Mrs. Watson, on the other hand, never objects to her husbands' involvement in Holmes' work at all, not even when the detective pulls the doctor into a coach at a moment's notice and tells him to simply telegraph his wife that he's "thrown his lot" with him once more.

 

One of my favorite stories, "The Boscombe Valley Mystery", opens with this little dialogue between husband and wife. Watson has just received a note from Holmes, asking for assistance on a case.

 

“Will you go?”
“I really don’t know what to say. I have a fairly long list at present.”
“Oh, Anstruther would do your work for you. You have been looking a little pale lately. I think that the change would do you good, and you are always so interested in Mr. Sherlock Holmes’ cases.”
“I should be ungrateful if I were not, seeing what I gained through one of them,” I answered. “But if I am to go, I must pack at once, for I have only half an hour.”

 

Of course one could get the impression that his wife wanted Dr Watson out of the house, but I prefer reading this as an indicator that she realized the company of Mr Holmes did the doctor good and encouraged him to shake up his routine for his own sake.

 

So, in the spirit of Conan Doyle: welcome, Mary, and welcome to all the harmony and good will you can bring. "The boys" will certainly need it if they're going to face Charles Augustus M.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Back to the original question, "How much Mary Morstan will there be?"  Here's a possible hint from an interview with Amanda Abbington.  The interview was posted on December 30th, so it has no actual spoilers -- but in case anyone's still avoiding even hints, I'll hide it:

 

 

Finally, does Abbington foresee a long run in Sherlock? "I hope there will be a big future for Mary - unless I upset Steven and Mark! In fact, it all depends on this interview. Just be careful. Don’t ruin it for me!"

 

 

[Ruthyone]

I think the last episode in the Sherlock series will be more a lot more darker.  I think that John Watson fell for Mary because she was a strong character and he needed that. Mary took 'Sherlock's' place in a way. Whether or not, Mary will survive or is working for the 'other' side - will be interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Because this thread is (inevitably) moving deeper into Series 3 territory, I have moved it to the Series 3 area.

 

[aely]

I like what I've seen of Mary so far, I don't find her annoying in the slightest unlike some people I know, I just worry what the last episode is going to do to her, John, Sherlock and the baby...

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I think most of us are right there with you, aely.

[Ruthyone]

I hope her character gets 'killed' off in the next series as she isn't trustworthy and I don't want her to be 'part of the team' as I think it would spoil the series.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

It seems Mofftiss is sticking pretty close to canon, so we may see her demise at a later date. That could be why they wrote her as they did, so the fandom wouldn't get to attached to her.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Deaths of young women were much more common in Victorian times than they are now, and this is a current-day take on the characters.  Therefore, I doubt that Moftiss feel she must die, or must leave.  And even in the original stories, she was around for a number of years.  So I suspect they're keeping their options open, seeing what makes for a good story.

 

And we wouldn't all be here if they hadn't done a pretty good job so far.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

It will be interesting to see where the next Season takes the three.....eeerrr....four of them. But I'm confident that Sherlock will not become a sitcom.

[BakerlooToBakerSt]

Does anyone think that Mary should stay? 

I think she's taking away from the show in a way, because John needs to move back in to Baker Street!!! 

 

That was one of my favorite elements to series 1/2, and now it's a bit different. Obviously, it's still fantastic

[Caya]

Hello BakerlooToBakerSt and welcome to the forum!

 

I added your post to the ongoing Mary discussion - that way you can freely talk about series 3, which for now is restricted to this subforum.

[T.o.b.y]

Oh thanks, Caya! So this is inside series 3 now? Great. Because I am certainly not done yet thinking about Mary and I find the subject is getting a bit on people's nerves (very understandably). So good idea to ramble along about her here, where at least she's in the title. And the question, asked originally about series 3, works for series 4 and so on as well, doesn't it.

 

Does anyone think Mary should stay? Yup. I do. But I also would be happy to see John back at Baker St. Not very nice of me, I guess. Poor John. I am sure that is not what he wants for himself. I wouldn't complain if it never happened, but I do have to admit, in spite of all fairness towards the character, that I'd still like it. And once more, it would be true to the original (I really have to stop using that as an argument, because there are so many really stupid ideas in the Doyle stories that I am so glad they didn't choose to include in the show or changed around).

 

I would like Mary to stay, because I like her. I do not like the decision to turn her into a CIA trained assassin - that was just plain silly, in my humble opinion -  but I like the way she is played, I like her "energy", so to speak, and (very shallow of me), I just like to look at her and listen to her. And I like the Watsons as a couple. I wish they could have stayed the way they were (or appeared to be) in The Sign of Three. But now that they have introduced that stupid "she was a killer and lied to John and married him under an assumed name and shot Sherlock and so on" storyline, I would not find it one bit believable (and therefore not satisfying) if John's glorious solution "throw it all in the fire and ignore it" really worked. He really is great on denial, isn't he. But denial on this level just shouldn't work out in the long run. Mary must have been really desperate to accept it. Who really wants a man to love her not for who she is but for what he would like her to be - even if she herself would like to be that way? (Hm, I might very well be the only viewer who mostly sees this from Mary's point of view... am I? I think neither John nor the writers were fair towards her.)

 

So, sadly, the only plausible development for me now would be the marriage falling apart and the Watsons ultimately splitting up. Because the only alternative in my mind would be them working things out and that would take up so much time during which we wouldn't get to see Sherlock and turn the show into a soap opera for good. I do not want any dramatic fallout. People can separate quietly and stay on friendly terms. I think that's what I would like. And then John could move back to 221b and the fans would be happy, while Mary would still be around.

 

But what I think will happen is that they stay impossibly happily married and I am left shaking my head at them for ever and a day.

 

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Don't give up hope that Mary can be out of the picture but not dead. John made it very clear that he is still pissed off at her, hasn't fully forgiven her everything but is willing to try, Mofftiss has a good handle on the side bars in Holmesian scholarship and there were some rumblings early on that Mary didn't die during the Great Hiatus, but for some reason that grieved John very much, they did separate. Mofftiss has said that as far as they are concerned every thing Sherlockian is canon so this could easily come into play.