Eurus

[Doe]

How am I going to read all these writings? I read this in 3 days with my english.  :comp: I wonder a lot. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Hey, I grew up speaking English, and I don't necessarily read everything.  ;)

[T.o.b.y]

God forbid anybody feel obligated to read through all previous posts! Just jump in with whatever's on your mind, we're all here for fun.

 

About Eurus... I never feel quite comfortable assigning real-life psychiatric disorders to fictional characters. Sure, you can often find some criteria that fit but no matter how complex or well written they may be, fictional people just don't follow exactly the same rules as real ones. Also, it can be a bit not good to label villains with medical diagnoses because you run the risk of promoting very harmful stereotypes about real people with mental health problems (who get enough flak already, imo, at least where I live).

 

On the other hand, just saying "oh, she's a villain, that explains everything" and calling it a day doesn't quite do Eurus' justice - or the people who wrote her. She is far from my favorite character on the show (in fact, if I could vote one person out, it would be her) but she's certainly more interesting than that. And clearly there's something fundamentally wrong with her, so much so that I even doubt if she can be held fully accountable for her actions. My impression is that her brain works so differently from "ordinary" people's that she has huge problems interacting with anyone, even with her own highly intelligent family members. The "context" she was looking for might be just her version of basic human connection. 

[Doe]

Because I liked Eurus. I wondered.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yeah, I can just imagine how frustrating it would be for me if the information about something I was interested in was all in Spanish.  I mean, I can speak and read Spanish, but I never was really fluent, and now I'm *way* out of practice.

[Doe]

You learn Spanish that is very excited.

 

Do you listen the Spanish music?

[Carol the Dabbler]

I don't often listen to Spanish music, no.  Though we used to have Mexican neighbors, and he was frequently working on his car out in their driveway with the radio going.  Most Spanish songs nowadays, like most English songs nowadays, have such loud "background" music and other sounds that I have difficulty hearing the words.  And I was never that much of a music person in the first place.

 

There's one Spanish-language song that I really like, called Eres Tú.  But even though it's sung with minimal accompaniment, I could understand only about half of it till I read the lyrics, after which I can at least make a pretty good guess at everything.  (This link goes to a YouTube video that shows the lyrics as they are sung.)  Here's also a pretty good English translation of the lyrics, but I think they're nicer in Spanish.

[bedelia1984]

 

I wonder is it possible to look at Eurus as a type of savant- she is very talented at some things- music, manipulation and yet quite slow to understand or empathise with others, not especially self aware?

I actually buy this for Sherlock, but on arguably harmless level like sensitivity. And for Sherlock, it's more like he is trying very hard, too hard to surpress all those although I'm a bit confused because sometime he seems totally unaware while other times he seems sad and struggling. I'd say he is so good in it that he fools himself too.

 

But for Eurus., I don't know. I treat her level of intelligence as someone who should be able to diagnose herself before others do. She knows what she is and what she needs, and when she doesn't get it, she acts up. The thing that she fails hard is how to express or communicate it. Like many bloody geniuses, I guess she forgets that ordinary people may have difficulty of trying to understand her.

 

So if, if, someone managed to solve her riddle and found Redbeard, there would be two possible outcomes.

One, maybe they would understand and cater to her need, brushed it off as extreme child play and convinced themselves that she would tell them anyway.

Two, most probably they would lock her up anyway, because it is a horrible thing to do but at least it's known before more damages are done and maybe they would try to 'fix' it in better way.

 

 

In one sense, I do get the idea she should be able to 'diagnose herself' due to her genius. Then again I think it is quite human to find ourselves to be the hardest people to correctly diagnose/ perceive/ help. Especially if you consider that she couldn't identify the emotion of pain- that would be a huge hindrance to being able to diagnose whatever psychological issue she was having, if she couldn't even identify what she was feeling.

 

About her riddle: I do think this is the root of our difficulty in understanding Eurus' motive, and the root of our reluctance to write her off as 'just evil'- she created that riddle wanting someone to solve it, wanting to be understood, wanting to be helped and perhaps on some level not truly wanting Victor to die.

 

I wonder if that is partly why Moriarty has often made a more appealing villain than others also- because he allowed the chance for redemption, he seemed to partly want to be stopped by Sherlock at times. Of course, there is that enjoyment of the game also. There are a lot of grey areas for both Moriarty and Eurus,- they are both the sort of villains that are in it partly for the sense of human connection, through finding a worthy opponent, they can finally be understood. That's something a lot of us can understand, though hopefully most of us find it through friendship, family or our significant others.

.

[Van Buren Supernova]

In one sense, I do get the idea she should be able to 'diagnose herself' due to her genius. Then again I think it is quite human to find ourselves to be the hardest people to correctly diagnose/ perceive/ help. Especially if you consider that she couldn't identify the emotion of pain- that would be a huge hindrance to being able to diagnose whatever psychological issue she was having, if she couldn't even identify what she was feeling.

 

 

That is true that it's difficult to see yourself.

 

What make me think she is above that are the ways she correctly pushing the buttons of Sherlock, John, and countless people she manipulated, accurately. It shows she has that diverse understandings about human empathy, pressure points and what make someone do what they do, she 'seduced' John when he was vulnerable, correctly predict Molly as one of Sherlock's buttons, turn everyone in Sherringford (they may not be geniuses, but they have at least decent level of intelligence and ways to deal with troublesome criminals, yet she managed that). You have to understand someone well to crush them at their weakest point and make them do what you want. Know your enemies to inflict maximum damage or turn then to be your ally. Have to. At least at the level of her power that we are told.

 

It's hard for me to find reasons why she has lack of self aware, after all, she had all those time to think, yet she repeated what she did to Sherlock and did unnecessary killings to 'reach' him. If they just make it like she wants revenge, it's arguable. But I don't get revenge vibe, except missing method of madness.

 

For beyond Newton level of genius, I think she is quite an idiot.

[Arcadia]

Or written by idiots. :d Sorry, sorry, couldn't resist.

 

That's why I stick to the "she's mentally ill" theory ... she can do things that make no sense and you can just attribute it to her illness.

 

I've mentioned before that I know someone with psychological problems, and she has no accurate understanding of her real behavior. She thinks she's acting normally and everyone else is just being difficult. She's very manipulative ... not because she understands empathy, etc. but because she's learned it gets her what she wants. She's very intelligent (but not genius level) but she does dangerous, stupid things and has a poor understanding of how the world really works. She's frighteningly perceptive, at times, about other people's thoughts and feelings ... but doesn't appear to feel compassion.

 

So, yeah, someone like Eurus feels pretty real to me, although completely baffling at the same time. I guess that's one reason I'm sort of fascinated by her.

[J.P.]

Baker Street Babes on Eurus - for later read.

http://bakerstreetbabes.com/femme-friday-eurus-holmes/

[Doe]

Baker Street Babes on Eurus - for later read.

I read. Thank you. Eurus is clever psycopath for me.

[Doe]

[Arcadia]

It's amazing to me how she looks a different age in each one of those roles.

[Doe]

It's amazing to me how she looks a different age in each one of those roles.

Absolutely. Eurus sees the all of senses and she handles.