The Language (and travel) Thread

[besleybean]

Yes Mummy is both posh and babyish.

[Carol the Dabbler]

On 9/23/2021 at 2:35 AM, Van Buren Supernova said:

silent H!!!

What is the method of that madness??

Well, I don't really need explanation, I'm just saying that English drives me nuts for a lot of reasons.

In most current English dialects, silent H occurs in words borrowed from French: e.g., hono(u)r and (in American English) herb.  This is but one example of the main reason why English is so irregular: We've borrowed from so many other languages.

A while back (around Shakespeare's time), *all* of the H's in English were silent.  Then apparently someone said hey, we've got all these H's, let's pronounce them!  And everyone did (except for the Cockneys).

I suspect this explains why H is pretty much the only letter in English that doesn't contain its sound in its name -- except in some dialects where it's called haitch instead of aitch.  My guess is that haitch was its original name, but letter names are used mostly orally, very seldom written, so that by the time people started pronouncing their H's again, nobody remembered that aitch used to be haitch.

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

When I learned alphabet in English, I remember H being the hardest to pronounce. Imagine my rage that after all those hardship, they decide to silent it for many words.

[Carol the Dabbler]

By the way, it's not just English -- H is always silent in Spanish.   

 

[J.P.]

But there are two sorts of H in German.

[Carol the Dabbler]

13 minutes ago, J.P. said:

But there are two sorts of H in German.

Well, that makes up for Spanish, I guess!

 

[DistantView]

Awesome! A thread that encompasses two things I adore, one of which can cause me fits.

Im trying to learn Italian right now,  and if I can get the basics down, e.g. sentence structure,  grammatical rules, then it's on to French. I took French in high school, over 30 years ago and I recall next to nothing. This is the part I struggle with. 

The French Riviera is one locale I'm considering moving to in retirement though, and I'd love to get some sort of hang of the language first. 

[besleybean]

I arrived back from Italy on Monday.

I am ashamed to say I don't have any Italian.

My family live in the German speaking area and I do have a little German!

[Carol the Dabbler]

1 hour ago, DistantView said:

The French Riviera is one locale I'm considering moving to in retirement though, and I'd love to get some sort of hang of the language first. 

Have you visited there?  I have not, but (as with Besley's comment between ours) just because an area is within a country that nominally speaks such-and-such a language, that doesn't mean it's the dominant language in that specific region, or that it's the only language generally understood.  For example, what with the Riviera being such a touristy area, I assume a lot of people there speak English (including the other expats!).

Still, being able to communicate in French there would be a good idea.

1 hour ago, besleybean said:

I arrived back from Italy on Monday.

My family live in the German speaking area....

Is that up near Switzerland?

 

[besleybean]

'Real' Italians call it Austria, it used to be part of Austria.

Sud Tirol.

Mussolini planted Southern Italians there, to Italianise it!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Thanks, Bev!  Just looked it up, and South Tyrol also abuts Austria and Switzerland but has been part of Italy since 1919.

 

[besleybean]

Try telling the Italians that, ha!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Well if they don't want it, I assume Austria would be glad to have it back!

 

[besleybean]

I expect so.

I am generally more comfortable with the thought of Austria, purely from the language point of view!

[Caya]

The rest of Tyrol would probably be glad to have them back (and people in South Tyrol can get Austrian passports if they so choose) but as there were unrests in the past it's a bit of a touchy topic. The EU and its open borders have helped making this less of an issue, anyway, fortunately. 

[besleybean]

Unlike Brexit, which has done absolutely nothing for us in the UK!

[Carol the Dabbler]

2 hours ago, Caya said:

people in South Tyrol can get Austrian passports if they so choose)

That's really cool!  I wonder if that sort of option exists anywhere else?

 

[besleybean]

I just know my daughter in law studied in Austria...don't know if her regional gov or the Austrian gov funded her.

[DistantView]

21 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Have you visited there?  I have not, but (as with Besley's comment between ours) just because an area is within a country that nominally speaks such-and-such a language, that doesn't mean it's the dominant language in that specific region, or that it's the only language generally understood.  For example, what with the Riviera being such a touristy area, I assume a lot of people there speak English (including the other expats!).

Still, being able to communicate in French there would be a good idea.

Is that up near Switzerland?

 

I traveled through the Riviera a long time ago, probably 25+ years now, but I loved it.  I like a Mediterranean climate, generally speaking, (lived in Los Angeles for ~15yrs) and there seems to be a lot going on re: art and film,  so it's high on my list of possibilities. I'm sure many people speak English,  esp in and around Nice and Monaco, but I'd still love to learn French well enough to at least have a basic convo with someone.  Languages aren't my strongest suit so it's a challenge.  

I have another decade at my current job though,  so time to plan...

[Carol the Dabbler]

31 minutes ago, DistantView said:

I like a Mediterranean climate, generally speaking, (lived in Los Angeles for ~15yrs)

I lived in that area for a couple of years -- absolutely loved it at first, but then it started getting to me.  For one thing, I found myself forgetting what time of year it was!

37 minutes ago, DistantView said:

I have another decade at my current job though,  so time to plan...

Sounds like a good idea!  Let us know what you decide, OK?

 

[DistantView]

11 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I lived in that area for a couple of years -- absolutely loved it at first, but then it started getting to me.  For one thing, I found myself forgetting what time of year it was!

Sounds like a good idea!  Let us know what you decide, OK?

 

I can totally understand the feeling of forgetting "when" you are when in LA. My uncle moved back to San Francisco for that very reason back in the 70s. It does get a little monotonous at times, but I can envision a point where I may give up on dealing with the snowy, cold NE winters! (Like today, eg). The traffic and freeways also got old after about 2002 or so, but now it seems like that everywhere. 

Of course I do like my current location, so that's the non-glamorous alt.

[Carol the Dabbler]

6 hours ago, DistantView said:

I can envision a point where I may give up on dealing with the snowy, cold NE winters!

A friend of mine recently moved from the Virgin Islands (where he'd lived for decades) to Tennessee, because even though he loved the warm climate, he just couldn't take another hurricane.  But he was originally from New York City, I think, so hurricanes were not in his repertoire.  I grew up here in Indiana, so I guess it's in my blood -- anyway, even though I complain about the hot summers and cold winters, it feels normal!

6 hours ago, DistantView said:

The traffic and freeways also got old after about 2002 or so, but now it seems like that everywhere. 

We lived there in the early 90s, and it was already pretty bad.  We weren't even in LA, we were up the coast in Ventura County -- just off the main drag, though.  Might be better back in the foothills, assuming you had access to the things you needed (Ojai's nice -- if you can afford it!).

Seems like the worst quirks of traffic everywhere have become universal.

6 hours ago, DistantView said:

Of course I do like my current location, so that's the non-glamorous alt.

Boston, eh?  I've lived there as well.  Back then, at least, it was a very walkable city, both distance-wise and safety-wise, which I appreciated, especially since I didn't drive.

 

[DistantView]

16 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Boston, eh?  I've lived there as well.  Back then, at least, it was a very walkable city, both distance-wise and safety-wise, which I appreciated, especially since I didn't drive.

 

Yeah, it's a pretty nice city. I lived in Boston for about 8 years, but I'm actually in Providence currently (still commuting/working in Boston). This is where I hail from (southern NE), so I should be used to the winters, but I still loathe them. It's currently not even 20 F outside and it's going to get worse on Mon/Tues. I'd love to get back somewhere where the winters are in the 40-60s range, even if it ultimately just means just traveling to warmer locales during Jan-Mar.

[Carol the Dabbler]

2 hours ago, DistantView said:

I'm actually in Providence

Are you following me around?  For one year of my Massachusetts decade, I lived in the southeastern part of the state, where the local TV channel is from Providence, and the weather forecasts are for "Rhode Island and vicinity" (which still cracks me up).

2 hours ago, DistantView said:

I'd love to get back somewhere where the winters are in the 40-60s range,

That sounds like Southern California for sure!

Parts of the southeast would also qualify, though it's much more humid there, and they have hurricanes.  Of course SoCal has earthquakes, brush fires, flash floods, and mud slides.  Take your pick, I guess!

 

[DistantView]

On 1/8/2022 at 12:27 PM, Carol the Dabbler said:

Take your pick

My pick is another country,  which means I'm more likely to wind up stuck where I am forevermore. 

Providence is a nice city, as far as smaller cities go. We've got a lot of cultural activities in a very condensed area,  and a plethora of high quality food options,  including loads vegan. ♡