Episode 2.1, "A Scandal In Belgravia"

[T.o.b.y]

I don't like to think how that woman came to be dead, however -- it does seem awfully convenient that there would just happen to be a corpse matching Irene's physical characteristics. 

 

Never thought about that! Oh dear, is it really bad that I actually like what you're implying there?

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Depends on what you think I'm implying! 

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Irene Adler having made sure she had a body double?

[miltk]

i was hoping someone would clarify some things for me. in general i followed the plot but i was lost on specifics....

 

1....so adler sought the help or moriarity. she said she had all that info and didnt know what to do with them. just what help did he offer that had to involve the holmes's.

 

2.... when sherlock decifers the code to reveal the flt information, adler texts it to moriarity. and with this info, he did what?

 

3....i was TOTALLY lost with the meeting on board the "flight of the dead". can someone explain?

 

4.... was the involvement of other parties concerned with other bits of information she stored or was this all about the flight.

 

what i couldn't understand was the machinations of the ruse that adler and moriarity created. if there is a detailed plot summary other than the wiki, which doesnt answer my question?

 

 

thanks all

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I hope these answer some of your questions. If not, continue seeking answers.

 

   1) Irene had a lot of information that involved state secrets. Apparently Moriarty showed her how damaging that could be to the British Government and very directly Mycroft Holmes and Sherlock. Moriarty hates Sherlock for interfering with certain plans so if Moriarty can trick Sherlock in to betraying his government some how, then Moriarty wins all the way around. In the beginning Irene has no intention of using her information for blackmail. But Moriarty shows her that if she can best Sherlock then she would have the power to bankrupt the whole country and topple the Holmes boys. Destroying their reputations for all time.

 

   2) He gave it to the terrorists so that they would know that when the plane blew up no one would be killed therefore foiling their act of terrorism.

 

   3) This flight had been in the planing for months even years according to Mycroft. Apparently they were on the trail of a terrorist cell. If they could catch them in the act of trying to destroy passenger plane then they be captured and the cell destroyed. Mycroft wanted to show Sherlock how badly he had screwed up by "showing off" to Irene.

 

   4) The phone held all kind of photos and information that could be used to hurt a lot of people as she said at the meeting with Mycroft when she handed over her blackmail demands.

 

   Irene said "she misbehaved" to gain the upper hand on people. The phone was just her assurance that if she did get into some very deep trouble then she could use the information on the phone to insure that they would have to help her out of it.  Moriarty, seeking to bring down Sherlock to put a stop to his meddling, and as a bonus Mycroft, destroying his power base as "the British Government" was something he realized Irene had the power to do if she really wanted to tap into the it. Moriarty played on her greed for power to push her in the direction of direct and outright blackmail that she had been reluctant to do before.

 

  

 

  

[Caya]

Hello miltk and welcome to the forum!

 

3) The way I understood it, the terrorists were planning to plant a bomb on that plane, and if they had stopped them, they'd have given away their mole. Therefore Mycroft planned to fill the plane with corpses, to let the terrorists believe that they were successful, when in reality everybody on board had been dead from the start. Could be wrong about this, though, take your pick of Fox's and my interpretation .

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Ahh I didn't catch the "mole" angle. Good catch, Caya.

[Carol the Dabbler]

One thing I still wonder about when I watch this episode -- why does Mycroft back off so readily on his idea of destroying the phone?  From Ariane DeVere's transcript:

 

MYCROFT: We destroy this, then. No-one has the information.
IRENE: Fine. Good idea ... unless there are lives of British citizens depending on the information you’re about to burn.
MYCROFT: Are there?
IRENE: Telling you would be playing fair. I’m not playing any more.
 

How could anybody be protected by Irene (of all people) having certain information?

 

(Or does Moffat-the-writer let the matter slide because it's a weakness in the plot?)

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Not Irene per say...but the information she is setting on? Yes, it could be a plot hole.....or she could have some really high level security information that if it falls into the wrong hands could seriously damage and or compromise Britain's homeland security? Some information that British diplomats might need for successful negotiations? Just wild guesses here.

[miltk]

Two thoughts regarding Irene Adler:

1. Battle dress: I thought it was interesting that whenever Sherlock looked at Irene in her battle dress, all we saw were questions marks. He looks at anyone else and we see all of his deductions. Her battle dress leaves Sherlock with few, if any clues.

2. Irene's beheading: Could it be a third possiblity, that Sherlock has faked the entire beheading scene, to put the wolves (including his brother) off of Irene? Mycroft tells John in the coffee shop that it would 'take a Sherlock' to fool him in this one. Maybe Sherlock did.

 

Beth

 

her situation, ie being captured is something sherlock couldn't create. i thought mycroft said "even sherlock couldn't fool him". anyway, my thought is that maybe mycroft got sherlock INTO the camp to rescue adler. he would certainly have the resources to do it.

[Caya]

But why would Mycroft want Irene rescued? I had the impression he considered her a major pain in the neck and was instrumental in her getting caught there in the first place.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... she could have some really high level security information that if it falls into the wrong hands could seriously damage and or compromise Britain's homeland security?

If Mycroft has the phone destroyed, then those "wrong hands" would be unable to get any information from it.

 

Some information that British diplomats might need for successful negotiations?

Irene hasn't been in the habit of sharing helpful information with the British government.  So I can't see how it makes any practical difference whether Irene has the phone or nobody has the phone.  If I'd been Mycroft, I'd have called her bluff.

 

[Caya]

Well maybe she had some lists from the other side on that phone, say, a terrorist group's list of suspected moles among their ranks.

 

That one sure could be used to save lives (and give that group a reason to hunt her down).

[miltk]

One thing I still wonder about when I watch this episode -- why does Mycroft back off so readily on his idea of destroying the phone?  From Ariane DeVere's transcript:

 

MYCROFT: We destroy this, then. No-one has the information.

IRENE: Fine. Good idea ... unless there are lives of British citizens depending on the information you’re about to burn.

MYCROFT: Are there?

IRENE: Telling you would be playing fair. I’m not playing any more.

 

How could anybody be protected by Irene (of all people) having certain information?

 

(Or does Moffat-the-writer let the matter slide because it's a weakness in the plot?)

 

 

YES. i totally didn't get this passage. if there's damaging info on the phone, then destroying it WOULD be the right thing to do. Why would info on a phone save people's lives when that very info is what's endangering them??? this supposed dangerous info is "safe" under the MOD's eye....it is UNSAFE in the phone.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Oh, and hello, miltk -- welcome to Sherlock Forum!    Thanks for jumping right in with your comments!

 

[miltk]

the thing i love about this episode is we see some of sherlock's TRUE heart, though very well hidden. i'm a sucker for this kind of thing. sherlock's "thing" for adler,,,his realizing his mistake and apologizing to molly, him getting extremely mad about mrs hudeon's abduction, and finally and especially warmly, his putting his arm around mrs hudson and saying the british government would fall the she left baker street.

 

:)

 

loved the episode

[Carol the Dabbler]

Well maybe she had some lists from the other side on that phone, say, a terrorist group's list of suspected moles among their ranks.

 

That one sure could be used to save lives (and give that group a reason to hunt her down).

 

Could be used -- but would it be used? As I said before (while you were posting that), Irene hasn't been in the habit of sharing helpful information with the British government.

[Caya]

Well no she wouldn't share it - but she might have it on her phone; one of those safety nets she was talking about.

 

Now that the phone's unlocked, though, it's Mycroft's.

[miltk]

Oh, and hello, miltk -- welcome to Sherlock Forum!    Thanks for jumping right in with your comments!

 

 

LOVE THIS. not being british, i am conveniently forced to watch all the episodes over and over and over again just to understand what's being said...LOL

 

so excuse me if i ask some inane questions.

[Caya]

There are no inane questions .

 

And don't worry, this is a very international forum. Four continents and counting .

[Carol the Dabbler]

... not being british, i am conveniently forced to watch all the episodes over and over and over again just to understand what's being said...LOL

Hey, what a great excuse! Mind if I borrow it? 

 

so excuse me if i ask some inane questions.

 

And this would differentiate you from the rest of us in what way?

 

[miltk]

Well no she wouldn't share it - but she might have it on her phone; one of those safety nets she was talking about.

 

Now that the phone's unlocked, though, it's Mycroft's.

 

 

but wouldn't mycroft already know about these secrets,,,or is it that now he knows what's on her phone. since all the contents haven't been exposed it ultimately stands to reason the final solution is to just destroy the phone and all it's contents

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

And maybe Carol is right in several posts back that when Mark Gatiss (Mycroft) said the line, he saw the dead end that as it was and that is why that line kind of got dropped because the phone had to be successfully unlocked by CB (Sherlock).

[Carol the Dabbler]

I meant that as a real-world explanation, Fox -- they may have deliberately hurried past that point, hoping that we wouldn't think too much about it, possibly because they couldn't really think of a good reason for Mycroft deciding not to destroy the phone.
 
And Caya, I didn't mean that Irene couldn't have useful information on her phone, merely this: It seemed highly unlikely that Irene would voluntarily share any of it -- in which case it would make no difference whether the phone was destroyed or not.

But of course, all that was before Sherlock figured out her password.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Oh well, just being fluffed brained here.