3 Bullets, 4 Friends

[Caya]

I don't think audiences generally expect the protagonist of a series to die. When Game of Thrones aired, those of us who'd read the books were looking forward with rather fiendish glee to the reaction to episode nine (someone dies there) of friends who didn't know the books. Needless to say, they didn't disappoint .

 

Series nowadays may kill off members of a team for shock value or because the actor is leaving, but the main char hardly ever bites it, except for maybe in the final episode. Otherwise, it just never happens, so when it does, like in GoT, it's brutal.

[Carol the Dabbler]

And we Sherlock fans are protected by the Gatiss guarantee:  “They’ve been solving crimes in Baker Street for over 100 years. They’re never gonna die.”

 

[T.o.b.y]

And we Sherlock fans are protected by the Gatiss guarantee:  “They’ve been solving crimes in Baker Street for over 100 years. They’re never gonna die.”

 

Yes, as Fox has kindly pointed out, those characters have managed to become immortal against even the will of their creator.

 

When I saw The Reichenbach Fall, I did have a nagging fear that I was really going to see him die. I did not know the third series had already been commissioned, I knew the actors were more and more in demand elsewhere and I also knew that the original Holmes really died (as I've said, bringing him back later does not count. Doyle really killed him). I could well imagine that they would terminate the series the way it was originally intended, with Holmes sacrificing his life to rid the world of Moriarty. Especially since Moriarty had been the element that tied the episodes together to make one story.

 

So I, for one, sat there with a big box of kleenex and got the full reward of seeing Sherlock alive and well in the graveyard. He fooled me, that's for sure!

 

Back to Molly. I really should not try to interpret 26 sec teasers. Of course she must know - it's the only logical explanation. But if we just for a minute consider she might not - how on earth could Sherlock have done it so as to leave her in the dark? After that conversation? What could he have told her?

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

When I saw The Reichenbach Fall, I did have a nagging fear that I was really going to see him die. I did not know the third series had already been commissioned, I knew the actors were more and more in demand elsewhere and I also knew that the original Holmes really died (as I've said, bringing him back later does not count. Doyle really killed him). I could well imagine that they would terminate the series the way it was originally intended, with Holmes sacrificing his life to rid the world of Moriarty. Especially since Moriarty had been the element that tied the episodes together to make one story.

 

So I, for one, sat there with a big box of kleenex and got the full reward of seeing Sherlock alive and well in the graveyard. He fooled me, that's for sure!

 

Oh, you poor dear -- that must have been harrowing!  No one (except the BBC and Hartswood) knew the third series had already been commissioned -- but I could not imagine that they would be so stupid as to kill him off.  Even with the actors being popular, surely the producers would want to keep the door open for additional series when and if possible.

 

So I sat there absolutely positive that we were going to see some fancy trickery, and so we did!  (I did use some Kleenex of my own, but that was out of sympathy for John.)

 

[BlueTiger]

Personally I'm convinced Molly and Mycroft were both in on the fake death, and nothing in the trailer contradicts that. Assuming Mycroft is looking up at Sherlock, he doesn't even look shocked to see him. It's more like, "Oh hello, brother dear. Back in London, are we? You really might have phoned...."

 

Molly does look like she's about to be taken by surprise, but probably just because Sherlock never told her where he was going or when he was coming back. Molly's too apt to put her foot in her mouth to be trusted with more information than necessary.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

  Doyle bringing him back has to count, it is canon. He didn't die in canon or what you would be implying is that essentially, every story the Doyle wrote after 1903 is not featuring Sherlock Holmes but an imposter  and Sherlock was alive on stage during that time. Even now if Moffat and Gatiss got so ambitious to try it, there is still Elementary and the dozens that will come after.

 

   In one Doyle book on Sherlock Holmes I have it shows Doyle writing at a desk. Holmes is standing in the door way dripping wet shouting: "Nice try, Doyle!"

[Carol the Dabbler]

Hi, BlueTiger -- welcome to Sherlock Forum!    Thanks for jumping right in with an interesting first post!

 

 

   In one Doyle book on Sherlock Holmes I have it shows Doyle writing at a desk. Holmes is standing in the door way dripping wet shouting: "Nice try, Doyle!"

 

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Welcome to the Forum, indeed Bluetiger! So glad you have made yourself to home already!

[Caya]

Hey, that cartoon is out on the web!

 

 

Thanks for pointing it out, Fox, that's hilarious .

[T.o.b.y]

That is great! Thanks for posting it (and thanks to the artist).

 

Well, I wasn't such a poor dear (thanks anyway for your sympathy, Carol), because not even I could help noticing that there were a few things going on in that episode that looked pretty fishy. I wasn't sure either way.

 

Maybe I seriously entertained the possibility of Sherlock dying because it would have made sense artistically. Holmes himself was made to say (or rather write in his last note):

 

"...my career had in any case reached its crisis, and (...) no possible conclusion to it could be more congenial to me than this"

 

And he is not entirely wrong. Dying arm in arm with the arch-enemy is just the classic way out for a proper hero. Was it really a better ending to let Holmes grow old and become a hermit among his bees - writing boring books about them, too? Can you imagine him living on to get a heart attack, a stroke - or Alzheimer's?

 

Of course, the wonderful Sherlock has done me the huge favor of pointing out that he does not believe in heroes and wouldn't be one even if they existed. He probably agrees with his brother about what terms are synonymous with stupidity. Another reason to love him and an effective argument why the kind of death that was planned for the original is not right for him, after all.

 

Sorry to have gotten off topic and onto my mania for good endings again (especially since Fox has pointed out that the perfect ending would be an open one highlighting the idea of "them always being there" as immortal ideas rather than a picture of actual people).

 

 I find that so far, nobody seems to be able to imagine a version of events where Molly was left in the dark. I can't, either. One certainly wants her to be important in some way, doesn't one? And it's only a little more than a month until we'll know for sure...

[BlueTiger]

Cheers, thanks for the welcome! I was only introduced to Sherlock a couple months ago, but I've now watched all the episodes multiple times so I'm about as obsessed as anyone. I'm from near New York so you can read my posts in an American accent if you must (but it's certainly not required) (and especially not when I'm making up lines for Mycroft Holmes).

[Loekie]

Moriarty is obsessed by fairy tales and three is an important number in fairy tales.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Well, that's true enough -- three wishes, three billy goats gruff, three little pigs, third try's a charm....

 

[T.o.b.y]

But do you think Moriarty would let that get in the way of threatening an additional life? I still think he just believed Sherlock didn't care enough about Molly - and Mycroft would have been too difficult to target.

 

Actually, if Moriarty were really evil, he would have waited until after the fall and then had the hostages shot anyway (or would have told the killers to do so in advance, if he had planned on not coming down from the roof alive himself). Thank goodness even super-villains have to follow the rules of storytelling.

[Caya]

I think he might have been more concerned that Sherlock would be able to detect him lying about that than about their lives. They're just "ordinary people", after all, who cares if they live or die. But he did care about Sherlock taking that fall, and he would have jeopardized that by lying.

[T.o.b.y]

I think he might have been more concerned that Sherlock would be able to detect him lying about that than about their lives. They're just "ordinary people", after all, who cares if they live or die.

 

Very good point, Caya, I must say. Thank you for making sense of something I am glad of but never felt was entirely "right" before.

 

[sittything]

I cannot believe you guys called the ball in the armpit thing.   That was amazing.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I don't know as any of us here can take credit for that.  Someone had posted it somewhere on the internet.  It made a lot of sense, though, so at least we were able to recognize a good theory when we saw it!  (In fact, Sherlock bouncing that ball may have been the "out of character" thing that Moftiss kept hinting at.)

[Boton]

I don't know as any of us here can take credit for that.  Someone had posted it somewhere on the internet.  It made a lot of sense, though, so at least we were able to recognize a good theory when we saw it!  (In fact, Sherlock bouncing that ball may have been the "out of character" thing that Moftiss kept hinting at.)

 

Oohhhhhhh!  [/Mary at Leinster Gardens voice]  I'll bet you're right -- or at least I like that well enough to adopt it.  You know, I didn't even see the ball bouncing the first time through (I clearly saw but did not observe), and then the second time through watching with Mr. Boton, I couldn't believe that he didn't see Sherlock bouncing that ball over and over.  It was so obvious once you knew.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I notice the ball the first time but didn't think anything of it until later and went duh.  But it was indeed brilliant.

[Schlauer Fuchs]

(In fact, Sherlock bouncing that ball may have been the "out of character" thing that Moftiss kept hinting at.)

 

That reminds me of something: This morning I saw a video in which someone claimed the out of character thing was Sherlock drinking tea with Moriarty because Sherlock never eats or drinks when he's working. That part was a nice observation, I thought, but what they made of it was that Sherlock had radioactively poisened Moriarty's tea which then was the reason why Moriarty killed himself... not exactly a crazy S4 theory, but definitely a crazy theory if you ask me

 

[sittything]

I noticed and remembered the ball, but never dreamed it would have any further importance outside "Oh, look... Sherlock seems on edge."  I've gotta get better at remembering that t should not disregard the details in this show so quickly.

[Schlauer Fuchs]

I noticed and remembered the ball, but never dreamed it would have any further importance outside "Oh, look... Sherlock seems on edge."  I've gotta get better at remembering that t should not disregard the details in this show so quickly.

 

The shame is you never know which detail is important and which isn't.

 

[sittything]

 

I noticed and remembered the ball, but never dreamed it would have any further importance outside "Oh, look... Sherlock seems on edge."  I've gotta get better at remembering that t should not disregard the details in this show so quickly.

 

The shame is you never know which detail is important and which isn't.

 

 

 

[sittything]

So do you all fully believe the story he told Anderson, or maybe only bits and pieces of it are true?   I did go back and watch and see the truck you all were referencing at the beginning of this thread.