Episode 3.1, "The Empty Hearse"

[Carol the Dabbler]

Are we supposed to assume that Lord Moran from TEH is in fact Sebatian Moran?  And according to some of the extraneous canon, he tries to rebuild Moriarty's network after Moriarty's death - and I'm wondering if this is what's going on at the end of HLV...  except that Moran is in prison, though probably not Pentonville because that prison is for less serious criminals.

 

Also can't find the actor who played Moran in the credits of the episode or listed on the IMDB... did I miss something?  Or is this a deliberate move by Gatiss/Moffit?

 

Typically an actor gets no screen credit if he has no lines. Even though "Moran" had plenty of screen time, I don't recall him having any lines, so presumably that's why he's uncredited.

 

But good heavens, I think I know how Watson feels when Holmes makes something seem so obvious -- of course Moran is behind the "Miss me?" campaign!  (But we've been told to expect the last thing we'd expect, so of course he isn't.  Oh, well.)

 

[sfmpco]

 

Are we supposed to assume that Lord Moran from TEH is in fact Sebatian Moran?  And according to some of the extraneous canon, he tries to rebuild Moriarty's network after Moriarty's death - and I'm wondering if this is what's going on at the end of HLV...  except that Moran is in prison, though probably not Pentonville because that prison is for less serious criminals.

 

Also can't find the actor who played Moran in the credits of the episode or listed on the IMDB... did I miss something?  Or is this a deliberate move by Gatiss/Moffit?

 

Typically an actor gets no screen credit if he has no lines. Even though "Moran" had plenty of screen time, I don't recall him having any lines, so presumably that's why he's uncredited.

 

But good heavens, I think I know how Watson feels when Holmes makes something seem so obvious -- of course Moran is behind the "Miss me?" campaign!  (But we've been told to expect the last thing we'd expect, so of course he isn't.  Oh, well.)

 

 

Oh I think they've just got us dancing around for an answer we may not see for 2 years...unless it shows up in the Christmas special.  Moran may in fact simply be a little spider in prison, putting together a new criminal web outside...

[jesskayding]

Maybe its a robot!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yes, I share your suspicions, sfmpco (now that you have pointed them out).  Went looking for more info on Lord Moran, found no additional theories as to why the actor is not credited, but did come across this quote from Mark Gatiss (from this web page):

 

 

 

Sebastian Moran is the sort of baddie in the original story of The Empty House and he’s Lord Moran in there, it’s just a tiny glancing reference really. We talked a lot about this, Doyle had it himself, Sebastian Moran is assuming quite big proportions in the world of Sherlock, but really he’s just Moriarty’s henchman, there’s not much more to it.

 

Mind you, this is the man who told us Moriarty is most sincerely dead (which he may still turn out to be, of course).  But you're not the only one out there who's suspicious about Moran.

 

[sfmpco]

Gatiss AND Moffit have said that Moriarty is dead dead dead, that they didn't write two fake suicides.  And i have to think that logically there would have been a huge host of people verifying Moriarty was DEAD.  

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yes, they said that, and I hope they meant it.

 

As for the host of witnesses to Moriarty's death:  The BBC News report of Sherlock's "suicide" (posted on John's blog) said nothing whatsoever about another body being found at Bart's, so that may have been all hush-hush at first.  By the time of "Empty Hearse," however, Anderson believes that "Moriarty's body" doubled for Sherlock that day, so (even though he's no longer working for Scotland Yard) he is aware (or at least suspects) that Moriarty is dead.  I have no idea what to make of this.

 

[sfmpco]

Ha ha!  Does anyone really know what to make of this?  

[jesskayding]

Oh that would be interesting. I wonder how he would begin to do that. Especially since he was caught trying to blow up parliament? Unless he had already began this resurrection act, before being caught.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

As far as I can figure, if Anderson thinks that the body on the sidewalk was Moriarty....that would have to mean that the police did not find his body on the roof or anywhere else. So....what did happen to the body.....was this Mycroft's doing? Or if Mycroft wasn't as involved as Sherlock let on, then his Homeless Network?  If so why.....were they afraid that if the police found another body at this time with Sherlock's reputation in the gutter that they would just figure that this was Sherlock's last desperate act, to kill the actor before putting an end to himself?

[jesskayding]

Or Anderson is just being Anderson. It was a theory of his. He always puts something in that doesn't fit or make since. " we can read her email, so what". Thought it was a dead end with the footprints in TRF. The miss steps with setting up that fake Jack the Ripper finding.

 

I would take EVERYthing that comes out of that mans mouth with a grain of salt.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

But if there had been a body, why didn't Lestrade call Anderson's bluff?  Lestrade said nothing about the MET finding Moriarty dead.

[T.o.b.y]

I am probably the only person who liked Anderson better before he changed into an obsessive, guilt-ridden Sherlock fan and conspiracy nutter. I miss the snark.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I like both Andersons.  Hopefully he'll now settle down a bit and regain a bit of the old snark.

 

I'm having trouble making sense of either Anderson's theory or what's-her-name's theory within the Sherlock universe.  How did Anderson know Moriarty was dead unless his body had been found?  But if it was found, then how could it have been used as Sherlock's double?  Was it perhaps found later, but he had clearly been dead since roughly the time Sherlock fell?

 

And the woman's theory has Sherlock and Moriarty on the roof together.  It's almost as though she and Anderson had watched "Reichenbach"!

 

[jesskayding]

I recall Lestrade stopping him before he finished talking

& called his theorys stupid. "More & more stupid" to be exact.

[jesskayding]

But if there had been a body, why didn't Lestrade call Anderson's bluff?  Lestrade said nothing about the MET finding Moriarty dead.

See above

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Stupid yes....but it still doesn't explain Moriarty's absence. Anderson was working with the MET at the time of Sherlock's fake suicide so he would know whether or not a body had been found on the roof.

[jesskayding]

I like both Andersons. Hopefully he'll now settle down a bit and regain a bit of the old snark.

 

I'm having trouble making sense of either Anderson's theory or what's-her-name's in the Sherlock universe. How did Anderson know Moriarty was dead unless his body had been found? But if it was found, then how could it have been used as Sherlock's double? Was it perhaps found later, though it was clear he'd been dead since roughly the time Sherlock fell? And the woman's theory has Sherlock and Moriarty on the roof together. It's almost as though she and Anderson had watched "Reichenbach"!

I think it was Moffat who said that Sherlock told Anderson, how it really happened. The other 2 theories were a mix of fanhood. I watched a special feature somewhere, that they chose to even include some of the more ridiculously crafted fan theories as well.

 

So they are not really meant to make complete sense, except for Sherlock's own account.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I understand that they're supposed to be wrong.  BUT how could someone within that universe have come up with those theories at all?

 

[jesskayding]

Stupid yes....but it still doesn't explain Moriarty's absence. Anderson was working with the MET at the time of Sherlock's fake suicide so he would know whether or not a body had been found on the roof.

 

I don't see the absence of Moriarty's body. Also with Molly's involvement & her helpless devotion & love for Sherlock, would make triple sure that that man ( Moriarty) was dead.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I see the absence because no one knows where he was even two years after the fact. The goth girl's theory puts him alive on the roof with Sherlock....with a fake Sherlock going over the side. Anderson tells Lestrade that the fake body is Moriarty's.....Lestrade never once says that the reason why that scenario is rubbish is because Moriarty was found dead on Bart's roof.  But Anderson should have known that since he was still working with the MET at the time.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Unless Molly and Mycroft still have the body in cold storage somewhere, waiting for a brain transplant....

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Oh heaven forbid....

[Arcadia]

Unless Molly and Mycroft still have the body in cold storage somewhere, waiting for a brain transplant....

That's it! You've cracked the case! Moriarty's not back, but his body is! It's brilliant, we still get to enjoy Andrew Scott, but he's playing a different person ... one called Joe Missme.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Not only is Molly a cracker jack pathologist....now she's a Dr. Frankenstein too?  Wonderful. I suppose Mycroft would make a rather amusing Igor.

[sfmpco]

I see.  It's a Frankestein-ian crossover.  Well, BC should be right at home then.