Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[jesskayding]

 

 

 

And of course there's the political aspect.......

Oh, Arcadia, what a can of worms you are opening there.

 

Yes, I know. I've been taking lessons from Jess.....

 

 

 

 

 coming to the dark side with dead Magnussen and myself, hey?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I just mean that he could have carried the weapon himself, he certainly knew how to get his hands on it when he wanted it. He had done it twice. He did tell John that they were going into a highly dangerous situation. So John should be prepared, he was the trained soldier after all. But it seems to me that it was the furthest thing from Sherlock's mind that he himself was going to have to use it.

[Arcadia]

Well, by brutish I mean ... what do I mean? Uncivilized. Un-intellectual. He had to rely on his transport to achieve his ends, his mind didn't matter. The village idiot could blow someone's brains out, it doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes. Or even a trained gunman. At that range, even I couldn't have missed.

[jesskayding]

Although I agree that Sherlock intended to have a civilized confrontation with CAM, he most certainly was "packing"!  He made absolutely certain that John had his gun.  (He even knew that it was in John's coat pocket.)  So I assume that shooting CAM was somewhere on his list of backup plans.

 

I completely disagree, its obvious that Sherlocks plan was to have the British government descend upon Appledore & obtain blackmailing files. If he originally had a plan to shoot CAM, as soon as he handed CAM the laptop then blow off his head & leave.

[jesskayding]

Well, by brutish I mean ... what do I mean? Uncivilized. Un-intellectual. He had to rely on his transport to achieve his ends, his mind didn't matter. The village idiot could blow someone's brains out, it doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes. Or even a trained gunman. At that range, even I couldn't have missed.

 

 

Uhm, Sherlock didn't behave as a village idiot. Boton made a good point somewhere around here. He sacrificed himself for Mary & John. I'll go a step further, a village idiot wouldn't think to save the entire Western world, from being ran by a journalist for his own financial gain.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Maybe it was all about motivation.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Although I agree that Sherlock intended to have a civilized confrontation with CAM, he most certainly was "packing"!  He made absolutely certain that John had his gun.  (He even knew that it was in John's coat pocket.)  So I assume that shooting CAM was somewhere on his list of backup plans.

 

I completely disagree, its obvious that Sherlocks plan was to have the British government descend upon Appledore & obtain blackmailing files. If he originally had a plan to shoot CAM, as soon as he handed CAM the laptop then blow off his head & leave.

 

Of course -- which is why I said "backup plan."  It obviously wasn't Plan A.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

More like Plan Z.

[Arcadia]

 

Well, by brutish I mean ... what do I mean? Uncivilized. Un-intellectual. He had to rely on his transport to achieve his ends, his mind didn't matter. The village idiot could blow someone's brains out, it doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes. Or even a trained gunman. At that range, even I couldn't have missed.

 

 

Uhm, Sherlock didn't behave as a village idiot. Boton made a good point somewhere around here. He sacrificed himself for Mary & John. I'll go a step further, a village idiot wouldn't think to save the entire Western world, from being ran by a journalist for his own financial gain.

 

But I'm not saying Sherlock was an idiot (altho maybe I should! ) I just mean that it doesn't take someone with Sherlock's intellectual gifts to pull a trigger. He could have been an idiot, and still shot the man.

 

It just adds to the sadness, imo; Sherlock's spent his life sacrificing everything to his brainwork; but when he got to CAM, it was all rendered useless. His knowledge and intelligence couldn't get him out of the situation, he had to resort to brute force. (AHA! That's what I meant by "brutishness!" Finally, the brain makes the connection.........)

[T.o.b.y]

The way he shot CAM is not frivolous.  He retreats into the persona that has always protected him ("Alone is what I have; alone protects me.") and draws strength from his ability to be the outcast who works solo ("I'm a high-functioning sociopath.  Merry Christmas!").  And he shoots CAM and throws the gun away in one move and puts his hands up to accept his punishment -- hardly sociopathic behavior.  The whole shooting was, in a weird way, a very very selfless act. 

 

Yes! Precisely! Exactly! Why can't I articulate my thoughts like that? Anyway, thanks, that's exactly what I think.

 

I do object to chain smoking almost as much as I do to shooting people, however. Just sayin'.

 

For the record, I strongly object to smoking in reality as well, and I call myself a pacifist. But for some reason, I've always been drawn to fictional anti-heroes who smoke and are willing to kill as an ultima ratio - with bonus points if they take other drugs as well. I have no idea how to explain this - maybe it's got something to do with my MB type?

 

Well, by brutish I mean ... what do I mean? Uncivilized. Un-intellectual. He had to rely on his transport to achieve his ends, his mind didn't matter. The village idiot could blow someone's brains out, it doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes. Or even a trained gunman. At that range, even I couldn't have missed.

 

Yes, but it takes Sherlock Holmes to make the decision to shoot Magnssen when, where and how he did. In that scene, we see another aspect of what makes Sherlock extraordinary.

 

 

It just adds to the sadness, imo; Sherlock's spent his life sacrificing everything to his brainwork; but when he got to CAM, it was all rendered useless. His knowledge and intelligence couldn't get him out of the situation, he had to resort to brute force. (AHA! That's what I meant by "brutishness!" Finally, the brain makes the connection.........)

 

 

Yes, I think I understand... Well, this is why Sherlock never really beat Magnussen, in the original story or this version. That's the deal with Milverton, Holmes doesn't really get the better of him. So for me, it makes sense. But if you don't love the original story, I guess it is kind of disappointing.

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

Although I agree that Sherlock intended to have a civilized confrontation with CAM, he most certainly was "packing"!  He made absolutely certain that John had his gun.  (He even knew that it was in John's coat pocket.)  So I assume that shooting CAM was somewhere on his list of backup plans.

I just mean that he could have carried the weapon himself, he certainly knew how to get his hands on it when he wanted it. He had done it twice. He did tell John that they were going into a highly dangerous situation. So John should be prepared, he was the trained soldier after all. But it seems to me that it was the furthest thing from Sherlock's mind that he himself was going to have to use it.

 

I think what really pulled my heartstrings was when Sherlock reached for the gun. You can see John just move his arm away, no questions, no complaints -- he completely trusts that Sherlock will do the right thing, even if Sherlock does a bad thing to that end.

[T.o.b.y]

I think what really pulled my heartstrings was when Sherlock reached for the gun. You can see John just move his arm away, no questions, no complaints -- he completely trusts that Sherlock will do the right thing, even if Sherlock does a bad thing to that end.

 

Yeah, I've been alerted to that little detail courtesy of some very observant people out there who bother to make Sherlock related blogs that show up on my search engine when I'm trying to find nice episode pics. Actually, I bet it's actually Martin Freeman automatically moving his arm, because he knows what's coming, whereas John most definitely did not. In other words, I think it's a bit of a blunder, and I am very amused that so much is being made of it.

 

But, if you stick to the rules of my very beloved "it's all real" game, then... Yeah.

 

 

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

I just love the whole shooting-Magnussen scene and everything before and after. It's all -- how do you say it? Gritty. Emotional. And very, very lucid. I love how everything goes silent when Sherlock sinks to his knees, and then Mycroft whispers, "Oh, Sherlock... what have you done?" It reminds me of how when something intense happens to you, everything after seems pastel and fragile.
 
If anyone's curious, this's the untranslatable word for what I feel:
 

 

 

europeisnotdead.com
 Spain:

Duende – This is, especially in Flamenco, the mysterious power that a work of art has to deeply move a person. The poet Federico Garcia Loca used the sentence of Goethe to define it as “the mysterious power that we all feel, but that no philosopher could explain”. This is closed to the French Stendhal syndrome.

 

[jesskayding]

 

 

Well, by brutish I mean ... what do I mean? Uncivilized. Un-intellectual. He had to rely on his transport to achieve his ends, his mind didn't matter. The village idiot could blow someone's brains out, it doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes. Or even a trained gunman. At that range, even I couldn't have missed.

 

 

Uhm, Sherlock didn't behave as a village idiot. Boton made a good point somewhere around here. He sacrificed himself for Mary & John. I'll go a step further, a village idiot wouldn't think to save the entire Western world, from being ran by a journalist for his own financial gain.

 

But I'm not saying Sherlock was an idiot (altho maybe I should! ) I just mean that it doesn't take someone with Sherlock's intellectual gifts to pull a trigger. He could have been an idiot, and still shot the man.

 

It just adds to the sadness, imo; Sherlock's spent his life sacrificing everything to his brainwork; but when he got to CAM, it was all rendered useless. Historically knowledge and intelligence couldn't get him out of the situation, he had to resort to brute force. (AHA! That'swhy what I meant by "brutishness!" Finally, the brain makes the connection.........)

 

 

 

 

Any genius @ that point, in order to get rid of the Magnussen files would have had to result in brute force. I still have yet to hear how they could have destroyed the files intellectually from anyone, Anyone, anyone get rid of the Magnussen files using wit. No one has been able to come up with a LESS CRUEL option than shooting CAM. 

 

I came up with drug him with something that gives home amnesia, but that's pretty cold blooded, to have someone live their entire life that way, or I supposed he could of bashed his head in with many blows instead of shooting him.

 

Or hay, what comes around goes around, let's put him in a bonfire yes!? Listen to his skin crackle & pop, yes.

[Arcadia]

Well, I think some folks did say that the obvious answer was for Mary to turn herself in to the authorities. And we explored the possibility that Sherlock's trick with the laptop could have worked .... IF the story had been written that way. Obviously Moftiss were jonesing to have Sherlock kill someone, so they came up with a way to make it seem like he had no other choice. But of course you always have a choice; he could have chosen to fail at saving Mary. Again, not the story that was being told. The story that was being told, imo, was about how caring is not an advantage. I wonder if that will continue to play out in S4? It's certainly dark enough! And I wonder if they'll ever balance it by showing how caring can be an advantage?

[Arcadia]

PS, I do like the idea of sticking CAM in a bonfire, see how he likes it for a change! And he obviously filmed the incident, I wonder if John could have pressed charges against him for intent to bodily harm? Again, not the story being told ... dang it, HLV was just too darn short!

[jesskayding]

Well, I think some folks did say that the obvious answer was for Mary to turn herself in to the authorities. And we explored the possibility that Sherlock's trick with the laptop could have worked .... IF the story had been written that way. Obviously Moftiss were jonesing to have Sherlock kill someone, so they came up with a way to make it seem like he had no other choice. But of course you always have a choice; he could have chosen to fail at saving Mary. Again, not the story that was being told. The story that was being told, imo, was about how caring is not an advantage. I wonder if that will continue to play out in S4? It's certainly dark enough! And I wonder if they'll ever balance it by showing how caring can be an advantage?

 

 

Mary turning herself in never answered the question. How do you solve the problem with Magnussen. Also we saw how Mary turning herself in didn't alleviate danger or even death comming to ,  John, the baby and/or the whole of Western society. So how do you stop Magnussen, a man with no moral compass, who has this Mind Palace to do with as he pleases? & you've already admitted that HLV is PG compared to what's now on TV these days. 

 

I think the show could graduate to PG13.

[jesskayding]

Shoot, just check out the new show Stalker... Perfect for Halloween. Mwaooo,  mwaoooo, mwaoooo oooo ooooo.

 

Stalker just blew up this woman by covering her & her car in gasoline, then tossing a match. Gruesome!!

[jesskayding]

PS, I do like the idea of sticking CAM in a bonfire, see how he likes it for a change! And he obviously filmed the incident, I wonder if John could have pressed charges against him for intent to bodily harm? Again, not the story being told ... dang it, HLV was just too darn short!

 

 

But Magnussen going to prison doesn't keep him from a phone. We all understand that he didn't just have phone#'s for folk to harm Mary, right? He had access to info on literally.... Everyone.

[Arcadia]

Mary turning herself in never answered the question. How do you solve the problem with Magnussen. Also we saw how Mary turning herself in didn't alleviate danger or even death comming to ,  John, the baby and/or the whole of Western society. So how do you stop Magnussen, a man with no moral compass, who has this Mind Palace to do with as he pleases?

In real life, you mean? You take away his leverage. If someone's threatening to reveal your secret or else, you reveal the secret first; then he has no more leverage. Of course, you still have to suffer the consequences of revealing your secret. It depends on what's more important to you; keeping the secret, or stopping the blackmail.

 

The first time I saw HLV, I thought maybe Sherlock and Mycroft were running a sting operation; get CAM on tape admitting he was pressuring Mary to get to Mycroft, and use that as evidence to prosecute him. Well, that theory was sure shot down! Silly idea anyway, I can't quite picture Sherlock agreeing to wear a wire. He'd think such banal trickey was beneath him!

[jesskayding]

Ok, I could somewhat see that, except for cases where reveals would cause deaths or the colaspse of an entire society.

[Arcadia]

Yep, that's why I live such a clean, pure, blameless life ... NOT.

[Carol the Dabbler]

So how do you stop Magnussen, a man with no moral compass, who has this Mind Palace to do with as he pleases?

In real life, you mean? You take away his leverage. If someone's threatening to reveal your secret or else, you reveal the secret first; then he has no more leverage. Of course, you still have to suffer the consequences of revealing your secret. It depends on what's more important to you; keeping the secret, or stopping the blackmail.

That might stop him from being a threat to you. But I think the big question is, how do you stop him from doing similar things to lots of other people? Or, as he says, to entire countries?

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

The first time I saw HLV, I thought maybe Sherlock and Mycroft were running a sting operation; get CAM on tape admitting he was pressuring Mary to get to Mycroft, and use that as evidence to prosecute him. Well, that theory was sure shot down! Silly idea anyway, I can't quite picture Sherlock agreeing to wear a wire. He'd think such banal trickey was beneath him!

Not necessarily. I still suspect that Sherlock recorded Jim's rooftop confession on his cell phone. It may have been the basis for the police investigation that proved Moriarty was real.

[Arcadia]

That might stop him from being a threat to you. But I think the big question is, how do you stop him from doing similar things to lots of other people? Or, as he says, to entire countries?

I don't, they have to do that for themselves, I guess. I'm trying to think of a real world example but I'm drawing a blank.

 

Added: or get the goods on him and prosecute the s.o.b. Either way, though, you have to be willing to pay the consequences. If you're Mary, you're in big trouble no matter how you slice it. Maybe she should have considered a different career....