Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[jesskayding]

 

Can we just talk for a second about the utter gorgeousness of the acting, set design, and direction (I never quite know who to credit for which element of a scene) of the restaurant scene with Sherlock and CAM? I think the way it was executed, especially BC's portrayal, lent a lot of information to a very short scene and went beyond the initial done-to-death visual joke of "patient escapes hospital wearing a gown with IV in tow" that we initially think it is.

That's kind of the way I feel about the whole episode ... most of the series, actually ... the elements that make it up are so fantastic that I really do forget the things that bug me while I'm watching. I'm very visually oriented anyway, and this show is a feast.

 

I like your observations but I drew a slightly different conclusion ... could it be that Sherlock was acting deliberately "submissive" in order to throw off CAM? I don't know ... in one way that scene drives me crazy, because it can so easily be read either way; either Sherlock's going down in flames, or he's in complete control the whole time and is just acting defeated to fool CAM into letting him into Appledore. Which seems more Holmesian, actually, but then you sort of have to think he was planning to murder CAM all along, at which point I go .... ewwwwwwww. No, please; just ... no.

 

Anyway, I agree, it's a gorgeous piece of filmwork on many levels, no matter what's actually taking place.

Especially for you Arcadia. Visually stimulating, yes?

 

 

[Schlauer Fuchs]

I never thought about the singularity of seeing Sherock eating while being on a case. Thanks for that hint, brilliant!

 

I thought about the morphin drip before, however, and my interpretation is that he deliberately raised his dose while CAM could see it in order to underline his drug habit/ substance abuse/ addiction pressure point. That way he wanted to appear even more harmless than he already was, thus facilitating CAM's decision to invite him to Appledore. And I totally agree that he had no intention to kill CAM at that point; he only wanted to get into the vaults and take everything CAM had on Mary (and maybe even try to burn the rest of his material since he loathed him so much for it).

 

Tomorrow, I'll watch the episode again - I never thought this scene took place after his second hospital admission but rather after his first escape. But maybe I got that wrong.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... could it be that Sherlock was acting deliberately "submissive" in order to throw off CAM? I don't know ... in one way that scene drives me crazy, because it can so easily be read either way; either Sherlock's going down in flames, or he's in complete control the whole time and is just acting defeated to fool CAM into letting him into Appledore. Which seems more Holmesian, actually, but then you sort of have to think he was planning to murder CAM all along, at which point I go .... ewwwwwwww. No, please; just ... no.

I agree that his apparent submissiveness is a ruse, and it seems to work, because we see this in Magnussen's thoughts:

 

PRESSURE POINT: > MORPHINE (ADD TO FILE)

 

As for his intent, if we're to interpret this according to canon, Sherlock was indeed intending to get into CAM's vaults and burn everything. Even if Moftiss are correct in saying that the canon Holmes actually shot Milverton himself (and Watson covered for him by saying some unknown woman did it), that was a spur of the moment thing, because (again, as in this episode) he thought CAM was out for the evening.

 

Tomorrow, I'll watch the episode again - I never thought this scene took place after his second hospital admission but rather after his first escape. But maybe I got that wrong.

The scene is a flashback -- we see it as Sherlock and John are leaving Mummy's kitchen -- so who knows? Here's the scene (about 2/3 of the way down that page) for your perusal. Maybe there's a verbal clue in there somewhere.

[Schlauer Fuchs]

 

The scene is a flashback -- we see it as Sherlock and John are leaving Mummy's kitchen -- so who knows? Here's the scene (about 2/3 of the way down that page) for your perusal. Maybe there's a verbal clue in there somewhere.

 

In the transcript it says "We get a better view of where they are, and it’s definitely not the hospital canteen. Sherlock has apparently busted out of hospital again, not bothering or unable to get his clothes for the escape, and the two men are in a small restaurant or taverna." -> "again" means point for Boton's interpretation!

 

[jesskayding]

Yeah. I can see that.

[Pamela]

 

  But for me, the line where he confirms with CAM that the vault is inside CAM's head tells me that he was going to wipe the vault no matter what, and when he found out it was located in CAM's head, then that was a sorry day for the integrity of CAM's head.

 

... integrity of CAM's head ... love that!

[Carol the Dabbler]

In the transcript it says "We get a better view of where they are, and it’s definitely not the hospital canteen. Sherlock has apparently busted out of hospital again, not bothering or unable to get his clothes for the escape, and the two men are in a small restaurant or taverna." -> "again" means point for Boton's interpretation!

Could be. But do bear in mind that Ariane DeVere is not affiliated in any way with Hartswood. She's simply a fan with an incredible amount of patience and attention to detail. So any "stage directions" in her transcripts are based on her own observations and interpretations. Unless she observed (but did not mention) some specific reason to say "again," that's an interpretation, so it's open to dispute.

 

[jesskayding]

I think its obvious that it was his second time back in the hospital. Don't know that he'd be willing to go as far as he did, giving his brother as a Christmas present, for lady Smallwood, but for John & Mary, yes.

[T.o.b.y]

I think its obvious that it was his second time back in the hospital. Don't know that he'd be willing to go as far as he did, giving his brother as a Christmas present, for lady Smallwood, but for John & Mary, yes.

 

I think so too. I always assumed this scene took place after the Mary reveal.

 

Actually, by the time Sherlock gets to Appledore, Lady Smallwood is beyond help. Her husband has already killed himself. Sherlock set up the whole plan with the laptop entirely for Mary - and Magnussen's victims at large, I guess.

 

I would love to know whether the original plan was what Magnussen supposed, or whether Sherlock had something more in mind. Like setting fire to the vaults, or something like that.

 

 

Something else I always irrationally wonder about is what goes through John's head when he sees the video footage of him being dragged out of the fire. When that originally happened, he was drugged and probably also almost unconscious from the fumes, so it must be the first time he realizes what really happened. Of course his first reaction is anger (anger seems to be John's default mode). But beyond that? Who knows. It must be quite an eerie experience.

[Boton]

 

 

I think its obvious that it was his second time back in the hospital.

 

Yes, I agree. I think you have two timelines going on at that point:  the story of Sherlock's time in hospital, in the form of a flashback, and the story of Christmas day, told as "real time."  It's potentially confusing, because at a certain point the "real time" nature of the hospitalization plot becomes flashback to make room for Christmas day as "real time."  But basically, I think Sherlock is shot, hospitalized, threatened by Mary, pulls himself together (and does some Mind Palace work on how Mary could have fooled them all), and goes to have a showdown with Mary with the idea of exposing her to John at Leinster Gardens.  While there, he realizes her full story and switches into the mode of helping them patch up their relationship, but this task is interrupted when he collapses at 221B.  He knows he's going back to hospital based on "you may have to restart my heart on the way."  The previous lines emphasize that now Sherlock feels that CAM is the only issue at hand, so it makes sense that after this revelation, he will pursue CAM exclusively, thus the meal/confrontation with CAM came after the 221B "domestic." There is a probably-boring-to-watch-and-thus-omitted series of scenes where John is trying and failing to wrap his head around how his wife could be a trained assassin who nearly bumped off his best friend.  But yes, it took me more than one watch to get the timelines in my mind in a way that made sense.

[Arcadia]

.....he was going to wipe the vault no matter what, and when he found out it was located in CAM's head, then that was a sorry day for the integrity of CAM's head.

Brilliantly put!!!

 

I don't want to believe it either, but this little niggling voice in my head keeps saying it actually makes more sense (otherwise why make sure John brought his gun?) On the other hand, it's more dramatically effective to have it be a spur of the moment decision, so I'm clinging to that like a frog on a tree.

 

Especially for you Arcadia. Visually stimulating, yes?

You betcha! I love stuff like that. I think if I worked in the movie industry, I'd be a cinematographer.

 

As for his intent, if we're to interpret this according to canon, Sherlock was indeed intending to get into CAM's vaults and burn everything. Even if Moftiss are correct in saying that the canon Holmes actually shot Milverton himself (and Watson covered for him by saying some unknown woman did it), that was a spur of the moment thing, because (again, as in this episode) he thought CAM was out for the evening.

Mmmm, I see what you're getting at, but Sherlock thought CAM was out for the evening when he broke into his penthouse, not when he went to Appledore. He went to Appledore specifically to confront CAM face to face.

 

Are you saying that in the original story, Holmes intended to commit arson? But didn't have to because Milverton was shot first instead? Interesting, if so, since it could be said that Sherlock "burned" CAM.....

 

Yes, I agree. I think you have two timelines going on at that point: the story of Sherlock's time in hospital, in the form of a flashback, and the story of Christmas day, told as "real time." It's potentially confusing, because at a certain point the "real time" nature of the hospitalization plot becomes flashback to make room for Christmas day as "real time." But basically, I think Sherlock is shot, hospitalized, threatened by Mary, pulls himself together (and does some Mind Palace work on how Mary could have fooled them all), and goes to have a showdown with Mary with the idea of exposing her to John at Leinster Gardens. While there, he realizes her full story and switches into the mode of helping them patch up their relationship, but this task is interrupted when he collapses at 221B. He knows he's going back to hospital based on "you may have to restart my heart on the way." The previous lines emphasize that now Sherlock feels that CAM is the only issue at hand, so it makes sense that after this revelation, he will pursue CAM exclusively, thus the meal/confrontation with CAM came after the 221B "domestic." There is a probably-boring-to-watch-and-thus-omitted series of scenes where John is trying and failing to wrap his head around how his wife could be a trained assassin who nearly bumped off his best friend. But yes, it took me more than one watch to get the timelines in my mind in a way that made sense.

This has always been my take on it as well, so, naturally ... I agree!

I will add that it's not only potentially confusing; I suspect it's intentionally confusing!!

[Arcadia]

Wow. I may make a vow of my own here, to stop complaining about the gun use in Sherlock! I thought I'd give this new show "Gotham" a look, and there was so much gun violence (and violent language) even before the opening credits rolled that I turned it off. Good grief.

[Carol the Dabbler]

As for his intent, if we're to interpret this according to canon, Sherlock was indeed intending to get into CAM's vaults and burn everything. Even if Moftiss are correct in saying that the canon Holmes actually shot Milverton himself (and Watson covered for him by saying some unknown woman did it), that was a spur of the moment thing, because (again, as in this episode) he thought CAM was out for the evening.

Mmmm, I see what you're getting at, but Sherlock thought CAM was out for the evening when he broke into his penthouse, not when he went to Appledore. He went to Appledore specifically to confront CAM face to face.

 

Are you saying that in the original story, Holmes intended to commit arson? But didn't have to because Milverton was shot first instead? Interesting, if so, since it could be said that Sherlock "burned" CAM.....

 

Gnarggh! That's what I get for trying to engage in logic when I'm half asleep.  You're right, I was mixing up two scenes, so never mind that part, I guess -- though the "coincidence" is still interesting....

 

No, Holmes did not have arson in mind, just creative use of a fireplace -- he burned all the blackmail papers from Milverton's safe.  I don't offhand recall whether that was before or after the mystery lady shot Milverton, but both he and his files were destroyed -- though (unlike in the episode) those were two separate actions.

 

Wow. I may make a vow of my own here, to stop complaining about the gun use in Sherlock! I thought I'd give this new show "Gotham" a look, and there was so much gun violence (and violent language) even before the opening credits rolled that I turned it off. Good grief.

 

Is it guns per se that bother you, or violence in general?  If the latter, I recommend that you avoid Elementary as well, then -- especially the first season, where it seemed that roughly half the crime scene coverage entailed loving shots of severed limbs and/or huge pools of blood.  The language is pretty PG, though.

 

[jesskayding]

Wow. I may make a vow of my own here, to stop complaining about the gun use in Sherlock! I thought I'd give this new show "Gotham" a look, and there was so much gun violence (and violent language) even before the opening credits rolled that I turned it off. Good grief.

 

That's what I've been saying the whole time. HLV is rated PG in comparison to these other detective stories that gun down 1-3 people per episode, who didn't use mind palaces to control the world.

[Arcadia]

No, Holmes did not have arson in mind, just creative use of a fireplace -- he burned all the blackmail papers from Milverton's safe.  I don't offhand recall whether that was before or after the mystery lady shot Milverton, but both he and his files were destroyed -- though (unlike in the episode) those were two separate actions.

K, thnx. So I would say there is sort of a parallel; original Holmes burns files, our Sherlock "burns" files. (Oh, that’s clever. Is it clever? Why is it clever?)

 

 

Wow. I may make a vow of my own here, to stop complaining about the gun use in Sherlock! I thought I'd give this new show "Gotham" a look, and there was so much gun violence (and violent language) even before the opening credits rolled that I turned it off. Good grief.

 

Is it guns per se that bother you, or violence in general?

 

It's not either, exactly, so much as the way they're presented. I don't much like "realistic" violence (of any kind) when it's used casually for "entertainment", but I can usually take a certain amount of "fantasy" violence. The violence in LOTR doesn't bother me, e.g. And I can tolerate quite a bit of "realistic" violence when it's respectful of the consequences, and/or serves a serious story. I'm thinking something like Schindler's List or Shawshank Redemption serious. But I can't watch the "it's all in good fun" Lethal Weapon type movies anymore.

 

Guns ... oh, I don't know. I'm not consistent. I still laugh my head off when Indiana Jones shoots the swordsman. It's unexpected, preposterous and Harrison Ford plays it perfectly. But most of the time I just find gun use boring, facile, juvenile ... a lot of noise and action purely for the sake of noise and action.

 

And of course there's the political aspect. I think gun use is too often glamorized. I remember when my nephew longed for a gun before he was mature enough to understand what one actually does. He just thought it would make him cool. And I can't help it, I find that glamorization fairly objectionable when we have kids shooting each other in the real world because they don't like each other's taste in clothes.

 

'Zat help?

[Schlauer Fuchs]

I think its obvious that it was his second time back in the hospital. Don't know that he'd be willing to go as far as he did, giving his brother as a Christmas present, for lady Smallwood, but for John & Mary, yes.

 

 

Yes, I agree. I think you have two timelines going on at that point:  the story of Sherlock's time in hospital, in the form of a flashback, and the story of Christmas day, told as "real time."  It's potentially confusing, because at a certain point the "real time" nature of the hospitalization plot becomes flashback to make room for Christmas day as "real time."  But basically, I think Sherlock is shot, hospitalized, threatened by Mary, pulls himself together (and does some Mind Palace work on how Mary could have fooled them all), and goes to have a showdown with Mary with the idea of exposing her to John at Leinster Gardens.  While there, he realizes her full story and switches into the mode of helping them patch up their relationship, but this task is interrupted when he collapses at 221B.  He knows he's going back to hospital based on "you may have to restart my heart on the way."  The previous lines emphasize that now Sherlock feels that CAM is the only issue at hand, so it makes sense that after this revelation, he will pursue CAM exclusively, thus the meal/confrontation with CAM came after the 221B "domestic." There is a probably-boring-to-watch-and-thus-omitted series of scenes where John is trying and failing to wrap his head around how his wife could be a trained assassin who nearly bumped off his best friend.  But yes, it took me more than one watch to get the timelines in my mind in a way that made sense.

 

 

It makes total sense what you're saying. And you're are probably - no, you're certainly right. There is just one thing that bothers me about this explanation: It makes for Sherlock being kind of stupid. He ran out of hospital once to organise the confrontation between Mary and John, probably because he tought he should do it soon, before she can harm him. The end of this plan is that his heart (nearly) stopps so that he nearly dies again and has to be hospitalised again. I think he should've learned from that experience and stayed in hospital until he stopped bleeding internally. It's months between the "cafereria scene" and Christmas (judging by Mary's womb), so he really should have invested the time and stay in hospital until he needn't take his morphine drip with him. Why would it matter if he talked to CAM 2 weeks earlier or later? To me, a second flight from the hospital proves him stupid in a way I don't want him to be stupid.

[T.o.b.y]

Wow. I may make a vow of my own here, to stop complaining about the gun use in Sherlock! I thought I'd give this new show "Gotham" a look, and there was so much gun violence (and violent language) even before the opening credits rolled that I turned it off. Good grief.

 

Complain all you like! We can spin it off into a long rambling discussion involving as many grave issues as we can think of.

 

 

Wow. I may make a vow of my own here, to stop complaining about the gun use in Sherlock! I thought I'd give this new show "Gotham" a look, and there was so much gun violence (and violent language) even before the opening credits rolled that I turned it off. Good grief.

 

That's what I've been saying the whole time. HLV is rated PG in comparison to these other detective stories that gun down 1-3 people per episode, who didn't use mind palaces to control the world.

 

 

Yes, thankfully, the show in general is pretty PG. I don't think I'd be able to watch it otherwise, and I hope it stays that way.

 

And of course there's the political aspect. I think gun use is too often glamorized. I remember when my nephew longed for a gun before he was mature enough to understand what one actually does. He just thought it would make him cool. And I can't help it, I find that glamorization fairly objectionable when we have kids shooting each other in the real world because they don't like each other's taste in clothes.

 

Oh, Arcadia, what a can of worms you are opening there. I've had this whole discussion about media violence, especially in computer games, and real life (teen) violence so often, and I still don't quite know who is right about what. I am really pressed for time at the moment (and I dare you to make a stupid pun out of that...), so I won't launch into one of my long rants, but short version: Sherlock is not a kids show. Grown-ups should be able to distinguish between fiction morals and real life morals. And most kids aren't half as dumb as most people think. Actually, when I was little, this was exactly the kind of attitude in adults that had me fuming with anger, this assumption that because I was a child, I was likely to believe anything I saw and emulate any TV or book character who crossed my path.

 

The show doesn't even claim that Sherlock shooting people is okay, let alone real people shooting real people. His Last Vow makes a huge fuss about the one killing of the big villain. Compare that to other action films / series, or even superhero flicks!

 

I know this probably makes me a bad person somehow, but I totally fall for chain-smoking, occasionally gun-wielding, sarcastic dark detective anti-heroes. (Hello, Mr Marlowe, yes, I am going to read the last one of your stories I don't know yet soon, the vacation is coming up!), and I don't give a hoot how politically incorrect that is or what bad role models they are. I don't want them as role models. I have real people for that.

 

It makes total sense what you're saying. And you're are probably - no, you're certainly right. There is just one thing that bothers me about this explanation: It makes for Sherlock being kind of stupid. He ran out of hospital once to organise the confrontation between Mary and John, probably because he tought he should do it soon, before she can harm him. The end of this plan is that his heart (nearly) stopps so that he nearly dies again and has to be hospitalised again. I think he should've learned from that experience and stayed in hospital until he stopped bleeding internally. It's months between the "cafereria scene" and Christmas (judging by Mary's womb), so he really should have invested the time and stay in hospital until he needn't take his morphine drip with him. Why would it matter if he talked to CAM 2 weeks earlier or later? To me, a second flight from the hospital proves him stupid in a way I don't want him to be stupid.

 

He's not so much stupid as reckless. And probably dangerously bored, lying in a hospital bed staring at the ceiling. Even an ordinary person nearly goes out of his or her mind eventually when hospitalized for a longer period of time. Sherlock puts his brain above his "transport", and even if the safety of his friends was not endangered by Magnussen, I think he'd have run off repeatedly and done some work just to keep himself sane - well, as sane as he'll ever be. "All that matters is the work - without that, my brain rots".

[Schlauer Fuchs]

He's not so much stupid as reckless. And probably dangerously bored, lying in a hospital bed staring at the ceiling. Even an ordinary person nearly goes out of his or her mind eventually when hospitalized for a longer period of time. Sherlock puts his brain above his "transport", and even if the safety of his friends was not endangered by Magnussen, I think he'd have run off repeatedly and done some work just to keep himself sane - well, as sane as he'll ever be. "All that matters is the work - without that, my brain rots".

 

 

You're right, recklessness is a better concept to describe him in this situation. And I can totally see him being bored in hospital, and I know he doesn't mind putting himself into danger in order to stop being bored (just think about the pill in SiP). But I don't know, I feel this situation is different. He should've learned something from nearly dying two times within a few days. We see him learn so many things and develop so much in the series (even too much for my taste), and this is a vital lesson which I want him to understand: Unless you have a very good reason for it, don't run out of hospital until you're over the worst. And when you feel you still need to drag along your morphine drip, you're definitely not over the worst, yet.

 

I'm aware this is just my personal feelings and his behaviour is totally in line with his character. Only, just for a change, I want him to change his character at his point. I want him to learn something from nearly dying two times in a row because I don't want him to die at all.

 

[Boton]

 

 

He's not so much stupid as reckless. And probably dangerously bored, lying in a hospital bed staring at the ceiling. Even an ordinary person nearly goes out of his or her mind eventually when hospitalized for a longer period of time. Sherlock puts his brain above his "transport", and even if the safety of his friends was not endangered by Magnussen, I think he'd have run off repeatedly and done some work just to keep himself sane - well, as sane as he'll ever be. "All that matters is the work - without that, my brain rots".

 

I agree with this, although I have sympathy for Schlauer Fuchs's position.  It's uncomfortable for me to see Sherlock put himself into that kind of jeopardy.  (Well, I do love a tortured, intellectual hero who will risk his life and health, so there's that....)  But for the second time around (the "canteen" meeting with CAM), I think Sherlock's brain came back on line before his body did, and I think he's used to considering himself a walking brain.  (cf. the unaired pilot comment referenced above, "Everything else is just transport.")  In some ways, I think this sheds light both on his morphine use and on his vulnerabilities.  

 

I picture that little restaurant being the restaurant that every urban hospital I've ever seen has nearby:  Its the little place that makes its living by being cheek-by-jowl with the hospital and being a place families can go get something different to eat than they could in the cafeteria.  (There's always a flower shop next door, too.)  My own backstory says that Sherlock has had some time to recover, and he's maybe not using the PCA (patient controlled analgesia) morphine pump as much (I think it was set somewhere at the 2-4 range on a 10 scale when he bumped it up during the meeting) and probably is walking around a bit.  Typically, after a bit less than a week, they will have liver surgery patients start to walk around and get their strength back, so I figure he was told that he should start walking to the canteen to get his meals if he wants, because that would be a good, safe distance. 

 

He takes a look at how close this little restaurant is and figures that it doesn't make any difference if he turns left at the bottom of the elevator to go to the hospital canteen or right to walk out the door to the restaurant ("I am in hospital; this is the canteen."  "It is?" "In my opinion."), so he sees his opportunity to meet CAM.   He thinks he can clear his head of the morphine long enough to think his way through the encounter; the morphine drip is riding shotgun to support his body, not his mind. After all, he's figured the damn thing out!  He's observed CAM's glasses, he knows CAM stares into nothingness and says "I'm reading," so Sherlock thinks he's got the "portable Appledore" figured out.  He went to that restaurant to see Appledore, but he thought it was the spectacles.  

 

When it turns out he's wrong, he learns the hard way that maybe he wasn't quite in the right shape to do this, because he doesn't have much of a backup plan.  Selling out Mycroft isn't too much of a hardship or a leap because that's what their relationship is:  sibling rivalry wrapped in admiration for an older brother who always seemed to be able to take care of himself.  Mycroft will be find if he's involved.  Heck, he might actually be helpful.  At minimum, Mycroft could pull in the resources of MI6, so this seems like a safe bet. 

 

 

 

The show doesn't even claim that Sherlock shooting people is okay, let alone real people shooting real people. His Last Vow makes a huge fuss about the one killing of the big villain.

 

That's the difference, as you say, between fiction and fact.  But I think there's a point to be made here that Sherlock doesn't cavalierly shoot CAM.  He makes the calculation that there are some things worth dying for.  He ultimately has to show the flaws we discussed above to get him to this untenable situation where the only way out is to erase the Appledore vaults, wherever they might be.  I think Sherlock has opened himself up to a lot of things over S3, most specifically friendship, and now he realizes that having people you care about also means that sometimes you care about them more than you do yourself.  

 

The way he shot CAM is not frivolous.  He retreats into the persona that has always protected him ("Alone is what I have; alone protects me.") and draws strength from his ability to be the outcast who works solo ("I'm a high-functioning sociopath.  Merry Christmas!").  And he shoots CAM and throws the gun away in one move and puts his hands up to accept his punishment -- hardly sociopathic behavior.  The whole shooting was, in a weird way, a very very selfless act.  He was willing to go to jail or even die as long as his friends John and Mary were safe and could live together as they wanted.  

[jesskayding]

 

Wow. I may make a vow of my own here, to stop complaining about the gun use in Sherlock! I thought I'd give this new show "Gotham" a look, and there was so much gun violence (and violent language) even before the opening credits rolled that I turned it off. Good grief.

 

Complain all you like! We can spin it off into a long rambling discussion involving as many grave issues as we can think of.

 

 

Wow. I may make a vow of my own here, to stop complaining about the gun use in Sherlock! I thought I'd give this new show "Gotham" a look, and there was so much gun violence (and violent language) even before the opening credits rolled that I turned it off. Good grief.

 

That's what I've been saying the whole time. HLV is rated PG in comparison to these other detective stories that gun down 1-3 people per episode, who didn't use mind palaces to control the world.

 

 

Yes, thankfully, the show in general is pretty PG. I don't think I'd be able to watch it otherwise, and I hope it stays that way.

 

And of course there's the political aspect. I think gun use is too often glamorized. I remember when my nephew longed for a gun before he was mature enough to understand what one actually does. He just thought it would make him cool. And I can't help it, I find that glamorization fairly objectionable when we have kids shooting each other in the real world because they don't like each other's taste in clothes.

 

Oh, Arcadia, what a can of worms you are opening there. I've had this whole discussion about media violence, especially in computer games, and real life (teen) violence so often, and I still don't quite know who is right about what. I am really pressed for time at the moment (and I dare you to make a stupid pun out of that...), so I won't launch into one of my long rants, but short version: Sherlock is not a kids show. Grown-ups should be able to distinguish between fiction morals and real life morals. And most kids aren't half as dumb as most people think. Actually, when I was little, this was exactly the kind of attitude in adults that had me fuming with anger, this assumption that because I was a child, I was likely to believe anything I saw and emulate any TV or book character who crossed my path.

 

The show doesn't even claim that Sherlock shooting people is okay, let alone real people shooting real people. His Last Vow makes a huge fuss about the one killing of the big villain. Compare that to other action films / series, or even superhero flicks!

 

I know this probably makes me a bad person somehow, but I totally fall for chain-smoking, occasionally gun-wielding, sarcastic dark detective anti-heroes. (Hello, Mr Marlowe, yes, I am going to read the last one of your stories I don't know yet soon, the vacation is coming up!), and I don't give a hoot how politically incorrect that is or what bad role models they are. I don't want them as role models. I have real people for that.

 

It makes total sense what you're saying. And you're are probably - no, you're certainly right. There is just one thing that bothers me about this explanation: It makes for Sherlock being kind of stupid. He ran out of hospital once to organise the confrontation between Mary and John, probably because he tought he should do it soon, before she can harm him. The end of this plan is that his heart (nearly) stopps so that he nearly dies again and has to be hospitalised again. I think he should've learned from that experience and stayed in hospital until he stopped bleeding internally. It's months between the "cafereria scene" and Christmas (judging by Mary's womb), so he really should have invested the time and stay in hospital until he needn't take his morphine drip with him. Why would it matter if he talked to CAM 2 weeks earlier or later? To me, a second flight from the hospital proves him stupid in a way I don't want him to be stupid.

 

He's not so much stupid as reckless. And probably dangerously bored, lying in a hospital bed staring at the ceiling. Even an ordinary person nearly goes out of his or her mind eventually when hospitalized for a longer period of time. Sherlock puts his brain above his "transport", and even if the safety of his friends was not endangered by Magnussen, I think he'd have run off repeatedly and done some work just to keep himself sane - well, as sane as he'll ever be. "All that matters is the work - without that, my brain rots".

 

 

 

 

I still hear Falcur when you post. No squeeky voice issues comming through. Nope.

[jesskayding]

 

 

 

He's not so much stupid as reckless. And probably dangerously bored, lying in a hospital bed staring at the ceiling. Even an ordinary person nearly goes out of his or her mind eventually when hospitalized for a longer period of time. Sherlock puts his brain above his "transport", and even if the safety of his friends was not endangered by Magnussen, I think he'd have run off repeatedly and done some work just to keep himself sane - well, as sane as he'll ever be. "All that matters is the work - without that, my brain rots".

 

I agree with this, although I have sympathy for Schlauer Fuchs's position.  It's uncomfortable for me to see Sherlock put himself into that kind of jeopardy.  (Well, I do love a tortured, intellectual hero who will risk his life and health, so there's that....)  But for the second time around (the "canteen" meeting with CAM), I think Sherlock's brain came back on line before his body did, and I think he's used to considering himself a walking brain.  (cf. the unaired pilot comment referenced above, "Everything else is just transport.")  In some ways, I think this sheds light both on his morphine use and on his vulnerabilities.  

 

I picture that little restaurant being the restaurant that every urban hospital I've ever seen has nearby:  Its the little place that makes its living by being cheek-by-jowl with the hospital and being a place families can go get something different to eat than they could in the cafeteria.  (There's always a flower shop next door, too.)  My own backstory says that Sherlock has had some time to recover, and he's maybe not using the PCA (patient controlled analgesia) morphine pump as much (I think it was set somewhere at the 2-4 range on a 10 scale when he bumped it up during the meeting) and probably is walking around a bit.  Typically, after a bit less than a week, they will have liver surgery patients start to walk around and get their strength back, so I figure he was told that he should start walking to the canteen to get his meals if he wants, because that would be a good, safe distance. 

 

He takes a look at how close this little restaurant is and figures that it doesn't make any difference if he turns left at the bottom of the elevator to go to the hospital canteen or right to walk out the door to the restaurant ("I am in hospital; this is the canteen."  "It is?" "In my opinion."), so he sees his opportunity to meet CAM.   He thinks he can clear his head of the morphine long enough to think his way through the encounter; the morphine drip is riding shotgun to support his body, not his mind. After all, he's figured the damn thing out!  He's observed CAM's glasses, he knows CAM stares into nothingness and says "I'm reading," so Sherlock thinks he's got the "portable Appledore" figured out.  He went to that restaurant to see Appledore, but he thought it was the spectacles.  

 

When it turns out he's wrong, he learns the hard way that maybe he wasn't quite in the right shape to do this, because he doesn't have much of a backup plan.  Selling out Mycroft isn't too much of a hardship or a leap because that's what their relationship is:  sibling rivalry wrapped in admiration for an older brother who always seemed to be able to take care of himself.  Mycroft will be find if he's involved.  Heck, he might actually be helpful.  At minimum, Mycroft could pull in the resources of MI6, so this seems like a safe bet. 

 

 

 

The show doesn't even claim that Sherlock shooting people is okay, let alone real people shooting real people. His Last Vow makes a huge fuss about the one killing of the big villain.

 

That's the difference, as you say, between fiction and fact.  But I think there's a point to be made here that Sherlock doesn't cavalierly shoot CAM.  He makes the calculation that there are some things worth dying for.  He ultimately has to show the flaws we discussed above to get him to this untenable situation where the only way out is to erase the Appledore vaults, wherever they might be.  I think Sherlock has opened himself up to a lot of things over S3, most specifically friendship, and now he realizes that having people you care about also means that sometimes you care about them more than you do yourself.  

 

The way he shot CAM is not frivolous.  He retreats into the persona that has always protected him ("Alone is what I have; alone protects me.") and draws strength from his ability to be the outcast who works solo ("I'm a high-functioning sociopath.  Merry Christmas!").  And he shoots CAM and throws the gun away in one move and puts his hands up to accept his punishment -- hardly sociopathic behavior.  The whole shooting was, in a weird way, a very very selfless act.  He was willing to go to jail or even die as long as his friends John and Mary were safe and could live together as they wanted.  

 

 

 

 

This is quite deserving of a Love button.

 

You are going to be very useful to me Boton- the voice of Janine ( who apparently will be back in season 4, according some article I posted awhile back around here. )

[Arcadia]

Complain all you like! We can spin it off into a long rambling discussion involving as many grave issues as we can think of.

Like this one, you mean?

 

 

And of course there's the political aspect.......

Oh, Arcadia, what a can of worms you are opening there.

 

Yes, I know. I've been taking lessons from Jess.....

 

I've had this whole discussion about media violence, especially in computer games, and real life (teen) violence so often, and I still don't quite know who is right about what. I am really pressed for time at the moment (and I dare you to make a stupid pun out of that...)

Okay. Uh .... here's the stupidest one I can think of ... did time appreciate your neat appearance? (Okay, even I am wincing....   )

 

For the rest, I pretty much agree with everything you say. I forgot to mention it, but I don't equate Sherlock with movies like Lethal Weapon. It's more like ... oh, Star Trek, I guess. Fantastical, but agreeably human at its core. (Or maybe it's the other way around?) At any rate, I was responding more to Carol's question about whether I disliked guns particularly or violence in general, and not thinking so much about Sherlock at that moment.

 

I do object to chain smoking almost as much as I do to shooting people, however. Just sayin'.

 

......  But I think there's a point to be made here that Sherlock doesn't cavalierly shoot CAM.  He makes the calculation that there are some things worth dying for.  He ultimately has to show the flaws we discussed above to get him to this untenable situation where the only way out is to erase the Appledore vaults, wherever they might be.  I think Sherlock has opened himself up to a lot of things over S3, most specifically friendship, and now he realizes that having people you care about also means that sometimes you care about them more than you do yourself.  

 

The way he shot CAM is not frivolous.  He retreats into the persona that has always protected him ("Alone is what I have; alone protects me.") and draws strength from his ability to be the outcast who works solo ("I'm a high-functioning sociopath.  Merry Christmas!").  And he shoots CAM and throws the gun away in one move and puts his hands up to accept his punishment -- hardly sociopathic behavior.  The whole shooting was, in a weird way, a very very selfless act.  He was willing to go to jail or even die as long as his friends John and Mary were safe and could live together as they wanted.

Again, I agree completely. I just .... would have preferred a different solution, I guess. I wanted to see him prevail with his intellect, not his brutishness. But that would have been a different story.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm aware this is just my personal feelings and his behaviour is totally in line with his character. Only, just for a change, I want him to change his character at his point. I want him to learn something from nearly dying two times in a row because I don't want him to die at all.

He's already died at least two or three times, but survived it each time. So from a real-life perspective I don't think you have much to worry about -- it's well established that Sherlock Holmes is immortal. But yeah, you still gotta worry about the guy!

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I don't think the killing of CAM was meant to be brutish, I certainly don't see it that way. This was not a cold blooded, calculated move on his part. He even had to steal a gun to do it. He did not go into Appledore packing. He was counting on a cerebriel confrontation with CAM, unfortunately CAM presented him with nothing at all in that area to work with. No hardcopy, no files, no physical letters to use as barganing chips. CAM held all the cards, and to save the people Sherlock loved and cared about left him with only one recourse. Burn the vaults even if it meant destroying the vehicle that carried them.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Although I agree that Sherlock intended to have a civilized confrontation with CAM, he most certainly was "packing"!  He made absolutely certain that John had his gun.  (He even knew that it was in John's coat pocket.)  So I assume that shooting CAM was somewhere on his list of backup plans.