Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

Either they are both sadly off their game or there is something going on that we don't yet know!

 

  It seems that is was not so much off their game as that everyone was in denial. Mary said that John knew that something was up with her but John just wasn't making that connection, because he was some kind of pissed off when both Sherlock and Mary points that out to him.

 

  Sherlock ignored "Liar" because he could see how much John loved her and how much she seemed to love John and for John's sake Sherlock would try to like her as well. Of course Sherlock couldn't know just how serious and how big that "Liar" label was going to loom, for all of them.

[Pamela]

Ah.  I finally made it through all 751 posts.  I saw the episode Sunday night on PBS but wouldn't post until I had read this whole thread.  What controversy!  I think this thread is 1/3 to 1/2 longer than the other two in this series.

 

There are only two things I really want to say.

 

Someone wondered why Magnusson's place was called Appledore.  (Someone else even thought it was a strange name.)  In Doyle's Charles Augustus Milverton, he lived at Appledore Towers in Hampstead.

 

Everyone seems to think that Sherlock shot Magnusson with John's gun.  Now, I've only viewed the episode once, but I really have the distinct impression that I remember a conversation similar to the following when Sherlock and John are leaving the Holmes' country place going to Appledore:

 

Sherlock:  Do you have your gun?

John:  Of course not.  Why would I bring my gun to your parents' for Christmas?

 

Does anyone else remember that?

 

Oh, wait!  I just thought - I can check Ariane Devere! (If she has this episode done yet.)

[Janie]

He just asked why would he bring his gun there but didn't deny that he had it. It was quite clear from his expression that he really had brought the gun with him.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

It was in his jacket pocket. Sherlock is holding John's jacket and hands it to John and asks if it's in the pocket. John grabs the jacket and says "Yes."

[Pamela]

Thanks.  Yes, I just checked Ariane's transcript.  I remembered the conversation correctly, but nevertheless, he had brought his gun.

 

Thanks again.  Can't wait to get my DVDs and see all these again (and again and again ... )

[T.o.b.y]

 

 

Either they are both sadly off their game or there is something going on that we don't yet know!

 

  It seems that is was not so much off their game as that everyone was in denial. Mary said that John knew that something was up with her but John just wasn't making that connection, because he was some kind of pissed off when both Sherlock and Mary points that out to him.

 

  Sherlock ignored "Liar" because he could see how much John loved her and how much she seemed to love John and for John's sake Sherlock would try to like her as well. Of course Sherlock couldn't know just how serious and how big that "Liar" label was going to loom, for all of them.

 

 

Sherlock was definitely in denial, but it is strange about Mycroft, isn't it. Maybe he just underestimated Mary, never took her seriously enough to investigate her. Or Mary is simply the one person who can cover her tracks even for his eagle eyes. If so, I like her even more. (Sorry, but ever since the beginning of The Empty Hearse, my sympathy for Mycroft Holmes - never very strong - has vanished completely).

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I really liked the interaction between Mycroft and Sherlock in TEH....but I tell you what....after finding out how Mycroft was protecting, adding and abetting a real bottom dweller like Magnussen, Mycroft has fallen in my esteem, a lot.

[T.o.b.y]

I really liked the interaction between Mycroft and Sherlock in TEH....but I tell you what....after finding out how Mycroft was protecting, adding and abetting a real bottom dweller like Magnussen, Mycroft has fallen in my esteem, a lot.

 

I don't think Mycroft was aiding and abetting Magnussen, I think he was afraid of him. What really turned my stomach was the torture scene. No more of those please! I truly hated it and I fast-forward it now when I have the DVD on.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

He told Sherlock rather emphatically that "You go against Magnussen, you go against me."   And again during the Christmas stay at the Holmes homestead. "He's a business-man, that's all, and occasionally useful to us. A necessary evil. Not a dragon for you to slay."

 

 Mycroft is not afraid of this man, he is using him.

 

 Yes, Magnussen says that Mycroft has been trying to find a way to pin something on him. If so, why didn't Mycroft help Sherlock get him....not hinder him.

[T.o.b.y]

Mycroft is not afraid of this man, he is using him.

 

Maybe both? Mycroft would never admit to being afraid of anybody, not even to himself, I'd imagine. So he makes the best of Magnussen. Also, I think Mycroft, as opposed to his brother, genuinely doesn't care about what Magnussed does to other people as long as it doesn't inconvenience Mycroft himself or disturb his power structure.

 

I loved Sherlock for his indignation about Magnussen. The more we see of Sherlock, the more lovable he becomes, I think. The other characters irritate me at times, but so far, I have never been disappointed in him one bit. He just gets better and better. And it turns out they can do so much more with him as a character than I ever thought possible without "loosing" him.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Oh yeah! This whole ensemble is amazing. And casting Benedict as Sherlock Holmes was an inspired Masterstroke, thank goodness!

[T.o.b.y]

I am sure it was. I wonder who the alternatives were. (Were there any?).

 

The cast is what makes this my favorite series (that and the cleverness of the adaptation - and Sherlock, Sherlock, Sherlock). There really is no role where I wish they had chosen somebody else. I mean, I hate Mycroft (well, not hate... dislike), but Gatiss is wonderful as him. (And Mycroft does of course have his moments. I just love it when he orders Anderson and his companion out after they heard Sherlock mention Magnussen).

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Nope, Benedict Cumberbatch was the only one they called in to read for the part.

[Caya]

There weren't any afaik - Sue Vertue had seen Benedict Cumberbatch in Atonement and suggested him, iirc, he came in and autitioned, and from there it was only the matter of finding the right John to fit his Sherlock.

 

Though remembering Atonement makes me kinda wonder why that one of all his previous roles convinced her .

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhSO8VFGxo0

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

Maybe both? Mycroft would never admit to being afraid of anybody, not even to himself, I'd imagine.

 

   I think I could think it possible it this was Mycroft using reverse psychology on Sherlock. "I say leave it alone, he'll go charging in".  That would explain why he would bring that all important laptop just lying around on the kitchen table. Sherlock sure can be a sucker for that. And why he made sure no one fired on Sherlock. But it sure is clear that neither one expected that ending.

[T.o.b.y]

 

   I think I could think it possible it this was Mycroft using reverse psychology on Sherlock. "I say leave it alone, he'll go charging in".  That would explain why he would bring that all important laptop just lying around on the kitchen table. Sherlock sure can be a sucker for that. And why he made sure no one fired on Sherlock. But it sure is clear that neither one expected that ending.

 

You think Mycroft and Sherlock were in this together again and Mycroft was only pretending to be drugged along with the rest of the family? Might well be. In that case, what Magnussen says was probably the Holmes brothers' original plan. Only if so, then why did Mycroft tell Sherlock only minutes before to keep his hands off Magnussen?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Part of that reverse psychology? Mycroft did allude to the fact that Sherlock seemed to have given up on Magnussen.....why bring it up at all. Let sleeping dragons lie. It could be he wasn't sure how far Sherlock was willing to go and how much he had planned. Of course as soon as he learned that Wiggins was a chemist should have set off some bells, but then...maybe he was more then willing to ignore them.

[Slithytove]

/>

 

 

Mycroft is not afraid of this man, he is using him.

Maybe both? Mycroft would never admit to being afraid of anybody, not even to himself, I'd imagine. So he makes the best of Magnussen. Also, I think Mycroft, as opposed to his brother, genuinely doesn't care about what Magnussed does to other people as long as it doesn't inconvenience Mycroft himself or disturb his power structure.

 

I loved Sherlock for his indignation about Magnussen. The more we see of Sherlock, the more lovable he becomes, I think. The other characters irritate me at times, but so far, I have never been disappointed in him one bit. He just gets better and better. And it turns out they can do so much more with him as a character than I ever thought possible without "loosing" him.

I agree absolutely! Sherlock is such a joy. He has always been a fascinating character, from ACD's original and through all the later interpretations (even the terrible ones), but Sherlock has shown us so much more depth, so many more aspects of the man. He is a truly multi-faceted character - clever, funny, rude, loyal, angry, brave, bad-tempered, and more - and I love him. And Benedict is so perfect for the role that it is impossible to imagine anyone else even beginning to do justice to it.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Something occurred to me after I turned off the computer last night -- I am now virtually certain that I know why John didn't read Mary's A.G.R.A. flash drive, and why he didn't ask her for any explanations.  Unfortunately, it's not an in-universe explanation, it's more of a symbolic canon-related thing, but I suspect it's the true explanation (just as some of the plot holes in "The Blind Banker" can be explained by Moftiss's desire to have a man with small feet break in through a skylight).

 

As has been mentioned around here before, the flash drive / memory stick is pretty clearly a reference to the treasure of Agra from "The Sign of the Four."  At first, I assumed it was just a throwaway reference, but I no longer think so.  In the original story, the treasure is the stumbling block between Dr. Watson and Miss Morstan -- as long as she is presumed to be the heiress of incredible wealth, he doesn't dare to express his feelings for her.  Only when the treasure is unexpectedly and irrevocably lost (and therefore no longer standing between them) does he tell her that he loves her.

 

In "His Last Vow," both Mary and John fear that the information on the A.G.R.A. flash drive would destroy his love for her.  Only by destroying the gadget can their love be saved.  The main difference between the two versions is, I think, that in the original, the loss of the treasure is merely a stroke of good luck for Watson, whereas in "Last Vow," it's John's conscious choice.

 

I still wish he'd had enough faith in her to ask at least "why," but now I understand why he didn't.  It wasn't canon.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

I still wish he'd had enough faith in her to ask at least "why," but now I understand why he didn't.  It wasn't canon.

 

  Maybe something we can put on the wishlist for Season 4? Although he did say that the problems of her past was her business, so sadly, maybe not unless they tell it in small story bits.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Small bits could be interesting, yes.  (Though hopefully someone besides Moffat could write them.)

 

[Pamela]

I just saw this RadioTimes article I think y'all will be interested in:

 

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-01-20/sherlocks-andrew-scott-we-knew-all-along-jim-moriarty-would-return

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Well, it doesn't say how Moriarty is coming back. And at the very end of "HLV" John says that Jim 'from IT" was brain dead. More speculation abounds.

[Pamela]

Well, it doesn't say how Moriarty is coming back. And at the very end of "HLV" John says that Jim 'from IT" was brain dead. More speculation abounds.

Right.  Still could be his brother, twin or otherwise.  But we definitely have Andrew Scott.  And personally, I'm happy about that.

 

Yep, I missed him.  In all his "unhinged" glory.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Maybe have Andrew Scott.  Maybe just that annoying little GIF.  With Moftiss, who knows?