Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[Carol the Dabbler]

... I like to see a new villain besides Moriarty. Culverton Smith possibly. He is the next brilliant baddie in the books who almost fooled our favorite sleuth.

Which story is he from, Janine?

[T.o.b.y]

Culverton Smith is the villain in "The Dying Detective". I think they already did that story with The Reichenbach Fall, but they could still use the baddie for some other plot, couldn't they.

[Janine M. Adler]

Culverton Smith is the villain in "The Dying Detective". I think they already did that story with The Reichenbach Fall, but they could still use the baddie for some other plot, couldn't they.

My thoughts exactly, T.O.B.Y. But where did they used the plot in TRF? Forgive me, I can't remember. Still I like this villain from the books. Besides he is a doctor (!) too. May be the writers can make him anti-John, like they made Moriarty anti-Sherlock.

[T.o.b.y]

I always thought that in the original, Moran was anti-Watson, but they didn't follow that path here, did they. Moran was kind of disappointing... Why do I think they already did "The Dying Detective"? Well, compare that story with Sherlock saying good-bye to John on the roof. Not only is he pretending to die, but also he's telling him where to stand, not to come closer etc. I thought of that story the first time I saw the episode. And the intent is precisely the same: Watson has to really believe Holmes is dying / dead to make the villain think so, too.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Suppose they do choose to adapt "Dying Detective" -- and when Sherlock starts telling John to stand over there, etc., John says, "You gotta be kidding -- I'm not falling for that trick again!"

 

[Janine M. Adler]

Suppose they do choose to adapt "Dying Detective" -- and when Sherlock starts telling John to stand over there, etc., John says, "You gotta be kidding -- I'm not falling for that trick again!"

hahaha....like it., Carol There are plenty of stories out there. I think there will not be any lack of source material. They have already adapted two of my favorite stories "A scandal in Bohemia" and "Chales Agustus Milverton". I can't wait to see if they ever adapt "Valley of fear". It's the one which contains Morierty as reference. If they really bring him back, this one will be more reasonable. Besides the story contains an interesting explanation of a fake suicide. If they ever use it explain Morierty's return. (or Sherlock's. It was much better than jumping  on an airbag.

 

Also I've three more stories in my favorite  lists, "The solitary cyclist", "Devil's foot" and "Gloria Scott." There is another story,( I can remember the name) where Mycroft appoint Sherlock to retrive important state documents, and some state person is involved. If they ever adapt that one,  it may be grant Sherlock a perdon for CAM's murder (Who knows if he had those documents)

[Arcadia]

 

To me, John deciding to resume his relationship with Mary as if nothing happened is about as in-character as if Sherlock suddenly decided to start dating Moriarty.

 

Well, it seems as if some people would find that plausible as well...

 

Not criticizing, just curious: Why do you think what Mary did was inexcusable and makes her "bad", while Sherlock betraying John's trust and hurting him badly (not physically, but I could argue that two years of mourning are worse than a shot to the chest which healed within months - and would have healed faster if Sherlock had been more compliant as a patient) is worthy of John's forgiveness and does not make him a villain? And why are so may viewers who disapprove strongly of Mary apparently so touched at scenes where Mycroft and Sherlock show any kind of brotherly feeling for each other?

To speak for a third way ... I am okay with John forgiving both of them.

 

I don't agree that Mary killed Sherlock -- she shot him, but he didn't die. Death occurs when the brain ceases to function, not when the heart stops. Quite clearly Sherlock's brain was functioning the whole time.

 

Perhaps it's because I wanted to, but I accepted Sherlock's explanation that Mary was hoping to incapacitate him, not kill him. Having said that --- I think she made a horrible choice. She should have trusted her two boys instead, and come clean. She seriously underestimated both of them ... for what reasons, we are not told. But until I learn otherwise, I'm willing to believe Sherlock's death was NOT her intent, and also that she wants to leave her old life behind. I would like it if she found redemption, and the first step on that road is to learn that she CAN be forgiven. (And I think John forgave her for lying, NOT for shooting Sherlock. That's a separate issue that they didn't address in this episode.)

 

As to Sherlock's big lie ... the way it's played, I don't think he really understood just how bad it would hurt John. He's still a child, everything's all about him, he's just now beginning to learn that other people's feelings are important too. Once he realized how much John was hurt, he was genuinely sorry. But he's still learning how to SAY he's sorry. (Which puts him farther ahead in the game than a lot of men, many of whom never grow up enough to learn how to say they're sorry.)

 

There is still hope that Sherlock may become "a good man" -- and Mary may become "a good woman" -- so I say, yeah, they are worthy of forgiveness. And because John already is a good man, he grants it.

 

As to Mycroft -- I just love seeing him spar with Sherlock (after all, who else is smart enough?) so I hope he's around for the duration, in brotherly mode or otherwise.

[Pamela]

Let's not forget that even though John has "forgiven" Mary, he's still "very pissed off and it will come out now and then."

 

As for Sherlock, in his own uniquely clumsy way, he is very sorry, he even tells John so again in his best man speech.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

There is another story,( I can remember the name) where Mycroft appoint Sherlock to retrive important state documents, and some state person is involved.

 

   There are three stories where there are important state secrets lost and Sherlock is called in to find them. "The Bruce-Partington Plans" from "The Great Game". The other two from the canon are, "The Second Stain" and "The Naval Treaty".

[sherlockandjohn]

Interesting. You think she really loves Sherlock? I thought so too, up to the moment she shot him. After that, every time we see her look at him, her face is utterly cold, except when she is saying goodbye to him at the airfield - seeing him off to his death.

 

Irene, I liked. Tough but genuinely cares about Sherlock - maybe even loves him. Bit of a blackmailer, though.

 

Okay, this is indeed interesting. Because I would say in a heartbeat that Irene did not genuinely care about Sherlock. She was infatuated with him, yes, but she manipulated with him, played games with him, used him to get what she wanted (protection). She cared about herself. I don't see much concern for Sherlock, especially in the moment when she gets him to solve the "Bond Air" mystery.

 

It's the selfishness thing, again. Who do you care about the most? If you are willing to protect yourself above anyone else, well, I'm not saying you can't also care about others, but just not as much as you do about yourself. Mary shooting Sherlock is the same deal. Sure, she did want to save Sherlock, or else she could have easily determinedly killed him on the spot. Plus, she called the ambulance. However, couldn't she simply have let Sherlock do whatever he was about to do? Take the gun from her? Anything else than risking Sherlock's life. Sherlock's explanation is that she wanted to buy time in order to try to convince Sherlock not to tell John. Hmmm, not a great excuse for shooting someone, if you ask me! She was very selfish, like Irene.

 

I do like Mary a lot more than I like Irene, though. I think Irene is a fun character, but I don't like her as a person. Mary I do like. I haven't fallen in love with her character, but I like her, and it does seem like she values Sherlock. She nearly cried when she had just shot him (okay, that's not a great defense, but the point is, she likes him), and up until that point she had shown nothing but appreciation for him and support of his friendship with John.

 

The scene at the airport when Mary hugs Sherlock, I actually think makes Mary seem colder, considering the fact that Sherlock will never see John again, and she is indirectly the cause of that. Sherlock made the choice, yes, but shouldn't she be heartbroken? Instead of simply lightening the mood. If I was her, I'd be feeling pretty guilty right about then.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

No doubt S4 will show I am wrong and it was all Mycroft's idea.....

 

Why, making an educated guess?

If we've learned something last season, it was... the answer to life, the universe, and everything isn't 42, it's Mycroft.

 

But let's be honest... would we have it any other way? Sherlock would be rather less adventurous (and ridiculously funny) if there wasn't big brother pulling all strings in the background to keep him from (major) harm.

 

Oh, I dont know... I really, really hope big brother is not behind all this. Yes, I want Sherlock kept from any serious harm, and I don't mind Mycroft pulling the strings sometimes... just not all the time. It gets ridiculous. If Mycroft and Sherlock turn out to have cooked up the plan of getting rid of Magnussed together, it will undermine the drama of HLV. It will be a bit like the explanation to the fall, only worse. At least the explanation to the fall leaves us with a lot of questions that we are free to answer on our own. Personally, I don't like to think that Sherlock had absolutely everything under control - and I don't think he did. He could not have known exactly how Moriarty would behave, so I believe at least some of the drama of TRF was real, and that Sherlock was at times truly upset. After all, if his plans had not worked out, Moriarty would still have gone free (!) and Sherlock would still be in danger.

 

The exclamation mark is of course suggestive that Moriarty might still be free.

 

Anyway, back to HLV and series 4: I hope Mycroft is not behind Sherlock killing Magnussen, as it will A) make Sherlock seem much colder, B ) make Sherlock seem completely invincible (I like for him to be in true danger once in a while, or it seems silly), and C) detract from the danger and tension in HLV.

[sherlockandjohn]

Mycroft, Sherlock and Mary all have very "interesting" ways of treating the people they love.

  Indeed!

 

I'm still exasperated that Sherlock pretended to be dead for two years and then didn't even understand how much he'd hurt John. His behavior is really bad. I'm starting to think he is no better than Mary. I love him anyway, love his character; he's so much fun, and wonderful, heartbreaking, maddening, and anger-provoking all at the same time.

 

It's too soon for me to judge Mary. I think she is a fairly flat character so far, in that she is not given enough background for me to understand or really appreciate her. However, I'm not even sure I want it. I am fine with leaving her in the background, but I think it's harsh to put her in a position of an ex-assasin and then not give her a background for it.

 

Mycroft, I enjoy his character, his interactions with Sherlock and John, not only them together, but Sherlock or John separately. I love him as a character. It doesn't mean I love his personality, but I don't hate it either.

 

Surely, if anyone is the better person here, it's John.

[Slithytove]

If It turns out that Sherlock really believes his own "surgery" theory, I will be very disappointed. He knows - and John and Mary, as a doctor and a nurse/assassin know - that shooting someone doesn't work like that. You can't fire a bullet into someone's torso and expect to make a nice, neat little wound that temporarily incapacitates but does not kill. It smashes into you and wreaks havoc amongst your major organs. Sherlock knows this - in his mind palace, he knows what damage has been done to his body and he knows he is dying. (And, when he flatlines, he is basically dead - the surgeons have already turned away from him, and brain death would have followed shortly if not for the "John is in danger" miracle.). The theory that Mary goes for a slower death, not a kill shot, so John will have to tend to him rather than pursue his killer is much more plausible, and if we mere mortals could think of it, did it never occur to the genius? "When you have eliminated the impossible.....". But he hadn't eliminated all other possibilities when looking for an explanation of why she didn't shoot him through the head. He just came up with a rather ridiculous one.

 

Unless it is a ploy. At the moment, it appears that the writers want us to swallow a large chunk of unbelievable plot, but you never know. They're a devious lot (Moriarty is dead. Oh, yes, definitely. No, he isn't. Perhaps.). Sherlock lies whenever it suits him, and I would never take his word at face value, if I was John. Of course, if it is a lie, it is quite cruel but that has never stopped Sherlock when it's part of a scheme.

 

I can't agree that Irene doesn't really care for Sherlock. Yes, she betrays his trust and humiliates him in front of his brother to protect herself. It is a lesser (much, much lesser!) version of Mary's betrayal of John. Generally, people believe Mary truly loves John, so why shouldn't Irene care for Sherlock? (I don't know I would go as far as saying she loved him.). Like Mycroft, Irene is a cold character whereas Mary is warm and cuddly. You have to judge people by their actions, though.

 

T.o.b.y had an interesting viewpoint, i.e. that grief is worse than physical injury or death and thus Sherlock's deception is worse than Mary's shooting. I respect that view but, given the choice, I think I would rather be very, very sad than dead. I have lived through loss and grief too many times, and each time I wished I was dead. Do I still wish it? Well, no....I would not have met the people who came into,my life since those deaths. (My grandkids, for a start.). In the same way, John was heartbroken and he mourned, but his life was moving on. He met Mary and was starting to be happy again. Surely that is better than what Mary did to Sherlock - at best, taking the risk of depriving him of his future.

 

And she would have been putting John back into mourning again, if Sherlock died - in fact, it was very possible he would die in John's arms, on the office floor, so John could have a whole lifetime of blaming himself for being unable to stop his best friend bleeding to death. Frankly, I wonder just how much Mary really cares about John.

[sherlockandjohn]

I think the writers mean for us to swallow the surgery explanation, even if it isn't medically proper. But with Moffat, who can be sure? I think, though, that it is an explanation for Mary's actions that we're meant to take at face value. In my opinion, it's not a good one, but I "blame" that on the writers, not Mary. When I say 'blame' I don't mean that it was a mistake - I haven't made up my mind about that. On one hand, Mary shooting Sherlock makes for some very compelling drama, and the writers had to find some way of justifying it if they wanted that piece of drama included. On the other hand, I think the explanation is too vague, and it doesn't fully justify Mary after all.

 

Sherlock's deception being worse than Mary's shooting I would not agree with either - it sounds like saying that Sherlock should have put a bullet to John's chest rather than pretend to be dead for two years, which I strongly would disagree with - but I understand the viewpoint that emotional injury can be worse than death.

 

 

[sherlockandjohn]

On a completely different note: I think it's a bit odd that John, after not having seen Sherlock for a month, apparently misses his old lifestyle so much that he resorts to spraining someone's arm. What about the time Sherlock was gone for two years? I think John was set up a bit in this episode to be more of an adrenaline-junkie than before.

 

Or maybe I just don't want to know what he got up to while Sherlock was away!

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think the writers mean for us to swallow the surgery explanation, even if it isn't medically proper. But with Moffat, who can be sure? I think, though, that it is an explanation for Mary's actions that we're meant to take at face value. In my opinion, it's not a good one, but I "blame" that on the writers, not Mary. When I say 'blame' I don't mean that it was a mistake - I haven't made up my mind about that. On one hand, Mary shooting Sherlock makes for some very compelling drama, and the writers had to find some way of justifying it if they wanted that piece of drama included. On the other hand, I think the explanation is too vague, and it doesn't fully justify Mary after all.

 

 

I strongly suspect that whoever mentioned the parallels with "The Empty House" was right on target.  Mary had to shoot Sherlock (for real and then again half-heartedly threaten to shoot his "dummy") because that's what Moran did, or meant to do.  Moftiss do tend to get kinda hung up on canon tidbits sometimes -- like the contortions they went through just to have a small assassin climb in through a skylight in "Blind Banker."

 

[sherlockandjohn]

Ah - Thanks, Carol. It does give the situation a different perspective.

[Slithytove]

On a completely different note: I think it's a bit odd that John, after not having seen Sherlock for a month, apparently misses his old lifestyle so much that he resorts to spraining someone's arm. What about the time Sherlock was gone for two years? I think John was set up a bit in this episode to be more of an adrenaline-junkie than before.

 

Or maybe I just don't want to know what he got up to while Sherlock was away!

Maybe he took up extreme sports - bungee jumping and whitewater kayaking.....

 

Moftiss are very keen, it seems, on the idea of John as an adrenaline junkie. A bit different from the original Watson, who was always ready for adventure but didn't seem to get antsy if life didn't provide enough excitement.

 

I can just about accept the idea of John Watson who lives for thrills, but I think Sherlock's line about him being drawn to dangerous people is a bit unfair. Like who? Well, there's Sherlock himself, of course. He is dangerous to be around. And then there is.... who? Mary is dangerous and she, along with Sherlock, implies that John knew this subconsciously, but why should he have done? She seems to have kept her nice persona intact throughout their dating and marriage. It was good enough to fool Sherlock, so presumably it would fool John too.

 

So what other dangerous people does John seek out? His girlfriends were so boring that Sherlock got them muddled up, and so did John. Irene was dangerous but John seemed to thoroughly dislike her. Jim was incredibly dangerous but, where Sherlock was initially fascinated, John loathed him from the very beginning.

 

If anyone is drawn to dangerous people, it is Sherlock. A bit unfair to project it onto John.

[sherlockandjohn]

We do see that John is drawn to the "war" that is fighting criminals, and I think it's the combination of danger and doing something useful that appeals to the army doctor. That's how it feels to me, anyway.

 

Sherlock, I'm not sure about. He is drawn to intelleligent people, regardless how dangerous they may or may not be, I guess. We do see him admire some pretty dubious persons, though, don't we?

 

It seems that, in order to help us sympathise with Mary, the writers felt they had to make John drawn to something dangerous in her... so the "blame" is placed partly on him. It doesn't fit with my image of John. Personally I don't think the writers did a very convincing job of showing John as an adrenaline-junkie prior to this episode, so it feels wrong to state that he chose Mary, because she conformed to some pattern of danger that he likes.

 

The thing is, whenever we see John liking danger, it is never stated as directly as in His Last Vow. We are introduced to him in A Study in Pink as someone who misses the war (it's the same writer of both those episodes, by the way!), but also as someone with 'strong moral principles'. When he shot the cabbie, it was only to save Sherlock. However in HLV, several things are pointed out to support John as a somewhat dangerous/danger-loving person:

 

1) He has dreams about the war, and about Sherlock saying 'The game is on'.

2) He doesn't think twice about going into a drug den.

3) In the drug den, he sprains Bill's arm, which Sherlock shortly thereafter points out was, in a way, the result of 'an addict in need of a fix'.

4) When Magnussen visits Sherlock, we find that John still carries the tyre lever, thereby further exposing to Sherlock what he was up to in the drug den.

5) When John asks Sherlock about the case, Sherlock says that it's too dangerous for any sane person - and with that he is trying to 'recruit' John.

6) Then there's the whole Baker Street confrontation, which we've already discussed at length.

7) Later on, Sherlock asks if John has brought his gun. John pretends that he hasn't, but Sherlock sees through him, and John admits to it.

 

This doesn't mean that I dislike all of those scenes. I'm not too fond of the 'addict in need of a fix' remark - I disliked that remark from the first time I heard it - and not the last mentioned scene either. I like the rest of the above mentioned scenes; especially when Sherlock tries to recruit John. Such an adorable scene, really, because it's like their little world. It's 'the two of us against the rest of the world'. However, it feels as though John is being set up for the purpose of emphasising that he chose Mary - and he was drawn to an element of danger in her, before he knew what that was.

 

And that's really the key for me: He was drawn to that danger, before he knew what it consisted of. Does that mean he still should be?

 

Just an addition: John does not seem to like the idea of Mary having been an assasin, so I do think the writers 'save' him in that regard.

[T.o.b.y]

Funny, am I the only person who was sold on "John the war-damaged danger-seeker, unable to re-adapt to civilian life and therefore drawn to Sherlock Holmes and the secret battlefield at home in London" from the start? I thought that was one of the major "points" of episode 1! Plus it makes sense to me. Once you get acclimatized to surroundings the "ordinary" person would shrink away from, it is very hard to adjust to everyday humdrumness and you get out of touch slightly with how people usually feel and act. That doesn't even mean you like your little world of madness, sadness and danger, but once you've adapted to it (and you have to, or you never get good at your job or whatever the reason for your being there is), you change and it must be very hard to change back. To make a long story short, John in His Last Vow was no surprise to me and I didn't feel like his character had been significantly changed. But then, I've never been partial to the idea that he was completely nice and normal, probably because I don't care much for nice, normal people in fiction. Boring, as Sherlock would say. The more complicated, contradictory and all-around whacky a characters' psyche is made to appear, the better pleased I am. Which does not mean I'd like to find out Molly is some kind of action hero as well, and neither was I pleased about the "assassin" background for Mary; I thought it was rather cheesy (at first, I've gotten used to it now).

[Janie]

You're not the only one, T.o.b.y. I never saw John as normal person either. What normal person would befriend someone like Sherlock and even saved his life just two days after he met him? That's why I had no problem accepting Sherlock's explanation that John was attracted to dangerous lifestyle. It was clear since episode 1. Mycroft even said something like that when he and John first met.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I don't see John as "normal". If he was, I don't think Sherlock would have even given him the time of day at Bart's. Maybe Sherlock saw that even though Dr. John Watson had been out of service for some time, he still carried himself as a soldier. Still kept his military hair cut. Yes, a lot of solders do that in the real world but they aren't "normal" in that they are having a very hard time adjusting to civilian life. Some never do. Suicide is running rampant in the ranks. Maybe that's what Sherlock Holmes saved  Dr.John Watson from.

[Slithytove]

Yes, I can see John is, maybe, drawn to dangerous situations.....maybe because, as an army doctor, he has experienced life at the sharp end and knows that's where he can be most useful. Or maybe he does just like the rush. I prefer the first explanation but I can see the second is possible too.

 

What I find questionable is that he is drawn to dangerous people. Apart from Sherlock himself - and Mary, if you think it is possible to know subconsciously that someone is dangerous, even though they've never shown you any sign - apart from them, who else? He had a string of dull girlfriends and couldn't bear any of the dangerous people he met such as Irene, Jim or (according to Sherlock's comment in ASiP) Mycroft.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Dr. Frankland comes to mind. The Golem and the Mayfly Man. All the other criminals that we never met in the course of solving the cases that are mentioned but never blogged about just like in canon. But in real life, there are always clues to a person's personality. Always. Ticks, nervous habits. Body language of all sorts and as a doctor, John Watson would be aware of these. He would need to be because in the kind of conditions he had to work under, a lot of his patients may not be have been unable to communicate verbally.

[sherlockandjohn]

I definitely see that John's pull towards danger was evident from ASiP, but it wasn't made out to be as big a deal as it is in HLV. It was made light of; it was fun and exciting. In other words, it was entertainment. Now, it's serious; at least to me it feels that way. HLV has a much more serious tone that ASiP, which is why John's attraction to danger is no longer fun... If I had taken ASiP as seriously as I take HLV, I might not have liked it as much. Even so, I feel that a much stronger case is built up around John's danger-addiction in HLV than in any previous episode.