Series 4 (and Special) Speculation

[Arcadia]

I'd be perfectly happy with [Mary] sticking around and/or I'd like to know her backstory.  What I would really hate would be for them to kill her off without even explaining who she really is and how she came to be there.  That would be a terrible waste of an interesting character.

 

Amen to that. That's the way I felt about Sirius Black; why did Rowling introduce such a potentially interesting character only to toss him away a book or two later? I didn't mourn him like I was obviously meant to, because I didn't know anything about him. That's when I finally gave up on the Harry Potter series.

 

I actually don't want Mary killed off at all, because I don't want them to put John through that. It's getting to be a bit much, what John endures. Let someone else suffer for a change. I pick Mycroft.

 

I think they can resolve her past to some extent without making her a major character. At least, I hope so. I increasingly really like Mary (if not her actions), but I'm far more interested in the dynamic between the two leads. I know that's not a properly feminist viewpoint.... So sue me! :P

 

I have to admit ... I am enough of a girly-girl that I would like to see Molly and Mary become friends, and do some mad conspiring to get the boys to properly notice them... just because I want to see that look of confusion on Sherlock's face again. :D

[T.o.b.y]

I actually don't want Mary killed off at all, because I don't want them to put John through that. It's getting to be a bit much, what John endures. Let someone else suffer for a change. I pick Mycroft.

 

Hear, hear!

 

Although I do think Mycroft really suffers when Sherlock f***s up and gets himself arrested for murder, or takes drugs.

 

I think they can resolve her past to some extent without making her a major character. At least, I hope so. I increasingly really like Mary (if not her actions), but I'm far more interested in the dynamic between the two leads. I know that's not a properly feminist viewpoint.... So sue me! :P

 

I don't think being feminist means that everything has to be about women, even a story about two men. But apparently, I am not a proper feminist by today's standards anyway, so what do I know.

 

Funny, I actually find myself increasingly disliking Mary. I liked her well enough at first - wasn't enthusiastic, but thought she was kind of okay. It wasn't the assassin thing that changed my opinion, though. Nor the fact that she shot Sherlock. I don't know what it is, but she's beginning to grate on me. Maybe because she's kind of cocky.

 

[Arcadia]

 

I actually don't want Mary killed off at all, because I don't want them to put John through that. It's getting to be a bit much, what John endures. Let someone else suffer for a change. I pick Mycroft.

 

Hear, hear!

 

Although I do think Mycroft really suffers when Sherlock f***s up and gets himself arrested for murder, or takes drugs.

 

Oh, I agree, I just wanted to see if I could get a rise out of JP. She's not taken the bait, though. ;) Okay, so let's let Mary do the suffering instead, she definitely has some karma to work off. (Although truthfully, I suspect Mycroft does too. Okay, let's have them share the suffering. Why torment one character when you can torment two? And I suppose Sherlock will have to come in for his share of whumpage too, to make up for Magnusses and TRF .... Moftiss is going to have a blast! Just leave John out of it, guys...)

 

Funny, I actually find myself increasingly disliking Mary. I liked her well enough at first - wasn't enthusiastic, but thought she was kind of okay. It wasn't the assassin thing that changed my opinion, though. Nor the fact that she shot Sherlock. I don't know what it is, be she's beginning to grate on me. Maybe because she's kind of cocky.

 

I'm not sure why I like her so much. I guess because she's calm, and firm but sweet to the boys (when she's not shooting them), and isn't the least bit intimidated by Mycroft. And I like what Sherlock identified as her "impish sense of humor". I think it will be very easy to misuse her character, though, and try make her either too perfect or too clever or too ... much. We shall see.

[T.o.b.y]

I'm not sure why I like her so much. I guess because she's calm, and firm but sweet to the boys (when she's not shooting them), and isn't the least bit intimidated by Mycroft. And I like what Sherlock identified as her "impish sense of humor". I think it will be very easy to misuse her character, though, and try make her either too perfect or too clever or too ... much. We shall see.

 

I think they already have made her too much. She's actually better at Being Sherlock Holmes than Sherlock himself, plus she's smarter (and probably also a better shot than both him and John). She could have her own TV show, where she's the female version of Sherlock, John and Mycroft combined and kicks a lot of ass. I might even watch that show. But right now, I feel as if she's kind of standing in Sherlock's light and I want her to get out of the way, I guess. It's bad enough that he has Mycroft looming over him.

 

 

[Arcadia]

Yes, I agree. As much as I like the supporting characters ( more Lestrade, please) I really don't want anyone to outshine Sherlock. I don't mind seeing him struggle (it's good character building, Sherlock, so knuckle down! ) ... but I do mind him being diminished because everyone else in the room is suddenly smarter/braver/saner than he is. Whether he likes it or not, he is my hero, not those other people! But ... we shall see. I think Moftiss are pretty good storytellers (but wahhh, so much can so easily go wrong!)

 

 

[Amber§]

Look at this!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAKkR9dGFyM

 

When Moriarty is falling, the gun disappears!

[J.P.]

 

I'm not sure why I like her so much. I guess because she's calm, and firm but sweet to the boys (when she's not shooting them), and isn't the least bit intimidated by Mycroft.

Oh, don't forget that it was how Sherlock sees her. She never met Mycroft on screen*.

 

I liked her because not being intimidated by Sherlock was good enough :D

 

ETA:

* because I still believe the plane scenes aren't real. I don't think Mary would just casually give away that she can break MI6 security with her smartphone.

[J.P.]

Look at this!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAKkR9dGFyM

 

When Moriarty is falling, the gun disappears!

 

Three theories. So far.

1. Minimalistic Theory: you simply cannot see the gun because the hand is completely blurred.

2. Minimalistic Theory: continuity error. Films are full of them. It seems natural to me that the gun would "jump" out of Jim's dead hand. The recoil of a gun is usually quite a kick.

Conspiracy Theory: after 2 has occurred, someone (Sherlock?) put the gun back in Jim's hand to ensure it looks like a suicide. But what for? Because Mofftiss like to play with us? :P

[Arcadia]

Look at this!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAKkR9dGFyM

 

When Moriarty is falling, the gun disappears!

That doesn't surprise me; it makes sense to me that when you shoot yourself, your lifeless hand drops the gun. What's weird to me is that he's holding it again when he's shown lying there!

 

 

I'm not sure why I like her so much. I guess because she's calm, and firm but sweet to the boys (when she's not shooting them), and isn't the least bit intimidated by Mycroft.

Oh, don't forget that it was how Sherlock sees her. She never met Mycroft on screen*.

 

Oh, true, I had forgotten. But I liked her even before TAB, mostly because of the way she treats Sherlock ... with kindness and good humor. And the way she teases John. And I've always given her a bit of a pass, because Sherlock does. I have no will of my own, apparently, and just follow wherever he leads...

 

I liked her because not being intimidated by Sherlock was good enough :D

See, I wasn't too far off! I knew there was somebody scary who didn't faze her, I just got the wrong brother. :P

 

ETA:

* because I still believe the plane scenes aren't real. I don't think Mary would just casually give away that she can break MI6 security with her smartphone.

 

I agree, that's weird. Unless there really is a prior connection between her and Mycroft that we don't know about yet, as Sherlock seems to believe. I hope Sherlock's right this time, he deserves to be right again for a change. Well, maybe he doesn't deserve it, the git, but I'd like to see him win one again.

 

Was that her smartphone, or Sherlock's? Because she started with Sherlock's, didn't she? When she mentioned he'd been reading John's blog? Maybe that would explain why it didn't take her long to hack into MI6; Sherlock had already done it. Sounds like a rewatch is in order.....

[J.P.]

I think this post can cause a lot of speculation:

https://twitter.com/arwelwjones/status/711886978434867200

[Carol the Dabbler]

Okay, so let's let Mary do the suffering instead, she definitely has some karma to work off. (Although truthfully, I suspect Mycroft does too. Okay, let's have them share the suffering. Why torment one character when you can torment two? And I suppose Sherlock will have to come in for his share of whumpage too, to make up for Magnusses and TRF .... Moftiss is going to have a blast! Just leave John out of it, guys...)

 

He's been the show's official damsel in distress long enough already, so yes please, leave him out of the whumpage -- but not out of the story!  (He was already scarce enough in "Last Vow.")

 

I think they already have made her too much. She's actually better at Being Sherlock Holmes than Sherlock himself, plus she's smarter (and probably also a better shot than both him and John). She could have her own TV show, where she's the female version of Sherlock, John and Mycroft combined and kicks a lot of ass. I might even watch that show.

 

I think I've already watched it.  Apparently Mary's real name is Emma Peel.

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

I think they already have made her too much. She's actually better at Being Sherlock Holmes than Sherlock himself, plus she's smarter (and probably also a better shot than both him and John). She could have her own TV show, where she's the female version of Sherlock, John and Mycroft combined and kicks a lot of ass. I might even watch that show.

 

I think I've already watched it.  Apparently Mary's real name is Emma Peel.

 

:D That would explain a lot... And I really liked Emma Peel, at least as long as she was played by Diana Rigg. I have yet to see Mary do fencing, though.

 

 

[Arcadia]

Okay, let's just stop giving Moftiss ideas, shall we? :p

[Slithytove]

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but I can't stand Mary precisely because of the way she treated Sherlock - basically, she killed him.  All the pleasantries in the world could hardly compensate for shooting someone.

 

If she hadn't shot him, would I still like her?  I'm not sure.  I liked her in TEK and TSoT, so maybe I would have carried on liking her if her character hadn't undergone a radical shift in HLV.  On the other hand, she does detract from the John-Sherlock dynamic, which is at the heart of the stories, and she's a bit of a smart-arse.  I don't think the show needs another one, considering it has already got Sherlock and Mycroft competing to be the cleverest person in the room.

 

Having said that, I wouldn't be averse to a third Holmes sibling turning up in Series 4.  (Particularly if it was Tom Hiddleston - well, a woman can dream...)  Presumably that would crank up the sibling rivalry to even greater heights.

[Shadow Dweller]

Ben Wishaw for the third Holmes brother. Think how cute it would be if Quartermaster of the SIS is one. Bring SHERLOCK to the age of IT (I am still smarting from how long it take to unlock Irene Adler's phone. Needs some help, Holmesses? Bet your teenage baby brother can do it much faster because he won't play the guessing game).

[Carol the Dabbler]

Sorry to sound like a broken record ....

 

But how else could we possibly fill the interminable gap between series of Sherlock? 

[Amber§]

Oh, only another year to wait, not so much :facepalm:

Maybe we can threaten Moftiss.....

[Arcadia]

I think they've already been threatened by the best, it doesn't seem to work....

[Bluebell]

Then there's no easter presents for them, says the easter bunny....

 

[J.P.]

Did I say I love this fandom?

[Carol the Dabbler]

I've been casually pondering Sherlock's line at the end of "Abominable Bride":
 

SHERLOCK: Moriarty is dead, no question. But more importantly ... I know exactly what he’s going to do next.

He's presumably referring to what the Bride did -- but which one?  If the original Bride -- who apparently died, then returned to kill her husband before she really died -- then Moriarty is presumably going to shoot his arch-enemy, Sherlock (either in person or via a proxy).  Or, if he's referring to the first act of the surrogate Bride, then Moriarty's surrogate is going to kill -- hmm, someone who "wronged" him many years ago -- which would be -- Sherlock (in the Carl Powers case)!

 

 

More theories?

 

[Arcadia]

Either way, it sounds to me like Sherlock is toast.

 

Hmmmm ... wronged many years ago ... maybe the "other one" is going after Mycroft?

[Carol the Dabbler]

Either way, it sounds to me like Sherlock is toast.

 

Hmmmm ... wronged many years ago ... maybe the "other one" is going after Mycroft?

 

Could be -- that would work just fine if it does turn out that Moriarty is/was "the other one." 

[Arcadia]

Odd, why did my font change up there? 'Twas not my intent ... eek! Ghost in the machine!

 

Oh, right, there are no ghosts.....

 

To me it would be just too soap operatic if Moriarty turned out to be a Holmes sibling. So I hope that's not it.

 

I wonder if Sherlock was referring to a specific action, though. Maybe what he meant was, he realized there's a group of assassins out there? Moran multiplied by many?

[Carol the Dabbler]

Looks to me like your font was fine -- till I quoted you.  Bizarre.

 

 

To me it would be just too soap operatic if Moriarty turned out to be a Holmes sibling. So I hope that's not it.

 

I wonder if Sherlock was referring to a specific action, though. Maybe what he meant was, he realized there's a group of assassins out there? Moran multiplied by many?

 

Since Sherlock said "exactly what he's going to do next," then yes, I think he was referring to a specific action, or at least a specific type of action -- rather than "by whom."

 

As for Moriarty as a Holmes relative, they've already hinted at some sort of connection, with the title of Mummy's book.  That may turn out to be merely another scarlet rollmop, of course (as may the term "scarlet rollm..."), but as for soap opera-ish, I'm willing to wait and see how it's carried out.