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Portmanteau 'Ship Names: a good thing, or evil incarnate?

Portmanteau Names  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think of them?

    • I think they're great!
      6
    • Never thought about it. What's all the fuss about?
      3
    • They are Evil Incarnate! I am not a number (or a smushed name) I am a free man (or Woman)!
      3
    • I think they suit some ships, but not all.
      7
    • It's complicated - I'll explain in comments
      2


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No, not ships as in boats, but ships as in 'relationships' which is a piece of terminology with which you'll be familiar if you've spent any time reading fan fiction, or if you are a follower of the cult of celebrity.

 

There are probably quite a few people who aren't avid fanfic readers on this forum, which is why I'm posting this topic out here instead of in the The Mind Palace so it is more visible.

 

If you aren't a fanfic reader or writer, you might not be aware that the quality of fanfic in general can vary greatly and some of it is absolutely dreadful, riddled with clichés and terribly out of character. Happily, I would say that the majority of fanfic based around Sherlock and related works (ACD universe, RDJ universe and others) seems to have escaped from the clutches of the rabid-in-a-bad-way element of fans and writers and on the whole is pretty darned good.

 

Another thing of which a non-fanfic reading person would not be aware, is the relatively recent preponderance of 'ship' names. I say relatively recent as it's a phenomena that developed well after I first started reading and writing fanfic in the mid to late 90s and certainly didn't feature in any of my fandoms at that time.

 

If you don't know, a ship name is a portmanteau name of 2 character names that are perceived to be in a relationship, usually romantic (though it doesn't have to be). There are loads (remember Brangelina? That sort of thing).

 

The commonest in Sherlock are:

 

Johnlock - John and Sherlock

 

Mystrade - Mycroft and Lestrade

 

Sherlstrade - Sherlock and Lestrade

 

Johnstrade - John and Lestrade

 

Mormor - Moriarty and Moran

 

Molstrade - Molly Hooper and Lestrade

 

 

So, and this is where I get to the whole point of the post, what do you lovely people think of the use of these names? I know there are many people who don't like the idea of male/male romantic pairings when it is something that is not in the original source material. That's fine (it's all fine), I am just interested in what you think of the use of the names, never mind what it might imply.

 

Do you think it's cute, a way to feel like you're a member of a somewhat exclusive group or even just a handy shorthand reference?

 

Are you really not bothered about the whole thing and wonder what the fuss is about?

 

Do you not like it because you don't feel it is in keeping with the source material/characters?

 

Do you think it's a horrible thing to impose on a bunch of characters with distinct and individual personalities, whether you believe they are in a relationship or not, because every person has a right to be known by their own individual name?

 

Answers on a postcard, please, to...

 

Well, actually, you could just add your thoughts to the topic or vote in the handy poll instead.

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Oh, wow -- I'm a hunnerd percent of the vote!

 

Seems to me that you have omitted the smushed name most often used on this forum: Moftiss. (And don't tell me that's different -- surely "co-creators" is a relationship.) (But OK, they aren't fictional. Apparently. Or maybe Mycroft Holmes is real, and was hired to play Mark Gatiss....)

 

Since a smushed name refers to the relationship, rather than to some sort of conceptual two-headed being (except in the case of Moftiss, of course), it's not demeaning, just a handy term. (Of course, I might feel differently if people start smushing my name.)

 

 

Do you think it's ... a way to feel like you're a member of a somewhat exclusive group....

That's the only part that might kinda bug me -- if people use smushed names as a sort of "members only" code, rather than as a simple shorthand. But all of the examples you listed were pretty transparent, with the possible exception of Mormor (which is such a cute name that I'm half tempted to write a story to fit). So I tend to doubt that the 'ship names constitute a serious attempt to exclude anyone -- maybe just a way to be "with it."

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See, even using Moftiss annoys me (er yes, I'm the one in the evil incarnate camp) though not quite to the same extent.

 

maybe Mycroft Holmes is real, and was hired to play Mark Gatiss....

I like the way you think.

:boing:

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I don't read any Sherlock fanfic but I'm familiar with other fanfic and I honestly don't care. I mean, why should one be offended? This is what fanfic usually is about, putting people into relationships/groups/situations that normally, in the normal 'canon'/life of the star etc., would not occur.

 

If for example people have a problem with 'Johnlock', I think it's mostly because they don't approve of homosexual relationships (or of John and Sherlock being homosexual). But fan fiction is FICTION, so anything's possible. I agree that some stories are really badly written but then you'd have to complain about the content, not the Ship Names.

 

What I really hate is when some fans separate themselves from others to form some kind of elite group. This is when I'd be annoyed, if they used some kind of secret name. But I think anyone, whether you're a reader of fanfic or not, can deduce the meaning of 'Johnlock' or others. ;)

 

So, I think those Ship Names are just handy. Fans use them to make conversation easier/faster. Now that we're spending so much time on the internet we make use of many abbreviations. And those Ship Names are just part of that development.

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I must say I am in the "hate homoerotic fan fiction" boat; however Johnlock doesn't offend me...much. I wouldn't like the pairing even if it wasn't homoerotic as I don't believe Sherlock and John would ever really get together. I do read/write the occasional fan fiction however most of the ones I read/write are very similar to the original work, mealy extending an idea.

 

Back on the topic of "ship names" (its interesting to note that I have heard of the name blending before this post but not the term "ship name"!) to date the only ship name I really like is Delena. Damon and Elena from the Vampire Diaries, for some strange reason it doesn't annoy me.

Yet I would NEVER like to have my own ship name!

 

Lastly, something in your first post annoyed me!

Where is the Irene/Sherlock pairing Irock? Does no one want to see that train wreck?? ;)

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The reason 'Irock' is not there because I've only included the ones from which I can't seem to escape. I've read Irene/Sherlock but the writer did not subject them to a smushed name as a tag.

 

I've read plenty of non-homoerotic fic that comes under either 'Johnlock' or 'Mystrade' tags. There's something in my brain that just makes me want to scream when I see/hear smushed names, muttering them in my direction is a sure fire way to wind me up.

 

If for example people have a problem with 'Johnlock', I think it's mostly because they don't approve of homosexual relationships

Definitely not the case with me - I've written it, goes to show I'm an exception to the potential rule I suppose, but then I seem to be the only person I know of (online and not) who has such a vehement reaction to the use those names.

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... even using Moftiss annoys me ... though not quite to the same extent.

I use the term out of sheer laziness -- not so much to avoid writing both names, as to avoid having to check my sources and see which one I'm quoting. And often there isn't any way to find out which one came up with an idea. (As I said, "conceptual two-headed being"!) But I can't imagine that I'd ever use the term unless I was talking about their professional collaboration.

 

 

Where is the Irene/Sherlock pairing Irock? Does no one want to see that train wreck??

Morbid fascination would be the drawing card, wouldn't it?

 

 

... There's something in my brain that just makes me want to scream when I see/hear smushed names ... I seem to be the only person I know of (online and not) who has such a vehement reaction ....

I tend to react badly, myself, to anyone being depersonalized (which I assume is somewhere in the vicinity of your objection).

 

I suspect that the reason the smushed names don't particularly bother me is that they're meta terms, not (so far as I know) ever used within the fictional universe. But if a character in a story did actually use the term "Johnlock" (even in just a "you never see one without the other" sort of way), I might think it was rude, depending on context. It wouldn't surprise me if Anderson said it, for example, but from Lestrade, it would be an insult. (Well, yeah, it would also be an insult if Anderson said it, but who cares?)

 

OK, Carol, so how does the above NOT apply to your use of the term "Moftiss"???

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I tend to react badly, myself, to anyone being depersonalized (which I assume is somewhere in the vicinity of your objection).

It's the basic source of it, but I have no idea why I react like I do - it's not as if it really *matters* as they're fictional characters. *shrugs* No explaining my brain sometimes.

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Well... I don't like them... For starters, it just makes it harder for everybody else to join a fandom... I mean, reading that list you provided of Sherlock fandom pairings, I'm glad you provided the names alongside them, or I wouldn't have had a clue what most of them were! They just complicate everything!

There is also the fact that it reduces two separate individuals to nothing but their relationship... And in my head, that's one of the things that leads to an awful lot of fanfic forgetting that the characters are individuals, and have separate personalities and suchlikes...

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... it's not as if it really *matters* as they're fictional characters.....

Intellectually, yeah -- but if they're not emotionally real to us, then what are we doing here? Dunno about you, but I can't help caring about their feelings. Even though it's silly.

 

 

... it reduces two separate individuals to nothing but their relationship... And in my head, that's one of the things that leads to an awful lot of fanfic forgetting that the characters are individuals ....

I haven't (yet) read much Sherlock-related fan fiction, but if the smushed names are having that effect, then that's unfortunate. Just wondering, though -- are the 'ship names the cause of that mindset, or are they simply one symptom of it? (Though in either case, they could at least be part of a feedback loop.)

 

* * * * * * * * *

 

OK -- what about the more-or-less-equivalent "slash" terminology? (That's old enough to be downright "traditional" by fannish standards, dating back to the Kirk/Spock fiction of the mid-70's.) Do you have the same reactions when the names are glued together in their entirety? (The term "slash," by the way, in case some of you don't know, comes from the "/" punctuation mark, which is called a "slash" in American English. If the phenomenon had arisen in the UK, it would presumably be known as "stroke fiction" -- and one can only conjecture what effect that might have had on the tone of the stories!)

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I first exercised my fandom muscles in the mid-late 90s on usenet, in Highlander and Trek. Although we didn't always use full names, we had a bunch load of character codes - all of which were put in FAQs for Trek as there were so many of them - and that's what we used in all our fic headers. K/S was Kirk/Spock (obviously) but with Voyager for instance there was another K - Harry Kim - so he tended to get his full name as it was short unless you were posting to a Voyager specific list.

Voyager specific codes included:

 

J/C - Janeway/Chakotay

P/T - Paris/Torres

P/K - Paris/Kim

Tu/K - Tuvok/Kim

 

and so on

 

In Highlander, the main slash paring (after S3) was Duncan/Methos (which I really don't like) and the code for that was D/M (which made me giggle as I call my doc marten boots DMs). I stopped reading a lot of Highlander fic because of the all-encompassing nature of the D/M pairing. Later on some people wrote Methos/Richie - M/R, which also made me giggle as it means mitral regurgitation in cardiology. Anything with Joe in it was coded 'Joe', again because of the short name thing.

 

Here's an example of a usenet fic title:

Fic: Indiscretion; TOS; Mc/Su 1/2 [NC-17] - it told you that the post was a fic, Original Series Trek, slash pairing of McCoy and Sulu, part 1 of 2 with an explicit adult rating. Now if it had been coded Mc & Su instead, it would have still been an explicit fic, but McCoy and Sulu wouldn't have been being explicit with each other, from that PoV it could have been gen! That slash was ever so important as it altered the whole meaning.

 

Posted Image

 

I have absolutely no problem using either initials or names separated by a '/' as it means each character still has an identity of their own and although they are, in part at least due to that '/', being identified only in terms of the relationship, they remain separate entities. To me this implies a life outside of that relationship where they are, potentially at least, each their own person. To my brain using a portmanteau name gives the implication that there is something 'forced' in that relationship, that the characters have no option but to be in that relationship, which is a bit Not Good IMO. I do realise that most people see using portmanteau names as harmless fun, but to me... *shudders*

 

 

By the way, / was known as a slash (as well as stroke) in the UK by the late 80s/90s at least because it's a 'forward slash' as opposed to a 'back slash' \ both of which are terms that were used in programming and using DoS, so if you were telling someone what they had to type in to get a computer to do a particular thing you had to make sure you used the correct terms as a back slash and a forward slash told the computer to do different things. I don't do either now (programming or using DoS) so no idea if it's still the case.

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I first exercised my fandom muscles in the mid-late 90s on usenet, in Highlander and Trek....

I got into Trek fandom back in the mimeograph and snail-mail days (usenet may have gotten started by then, but very few people had access to it). I subscribed to a lot of the fan-published amateur magazines ("fanzines") of the day, but never got into slash, though of course I knew of it. It was a real blast from the past to run into the same phenomenon in Sherlock fandom!

 

 

Voyager specific codes included: J/C - Janeway/Chakotay

That was practically canon, wasn't it? ;)

 

 

... Mc/Su ... told you that the post was a ... slash pairing of McCoy and Sulu ... Now if it had been coded Mc & Su instead, it would have still been an explicit fic, but McCoy and Sulu wouldn't have been being explicit with each other, from that PoV it could have been gen! That slash was ever so important as it altered the whole meaning.

 

That part hadn't changed since mimeo days, then. (But -- McCoy and Sulu ?!?! :huh: )

 

 

Posted Image

 

Cute!

 

 

I have absolutely no problem using either initials or names separated by a '/' as it means each character still has an identity of their own and although they are, in part at least due to that '/', being identified only in terms of the relationship, they remain separate entities. To me this implies a life outside of that relationship where they are, potentially at least, each their own person. To my brain using a portmanteau name gives the implication that there is something 'forced' in that relationship, that the characters have no option but to be in that relationship ....

 

Yeah, I was wondering if that would make a difference to you. Might you then be a bit more comfortable with "John/lock" than with "Johnlock," because of the "/" delimiter -- or does it have to be either initials or full names, instead of front and back halves?

 

 

By the way, / was known as a slash (as well as stroke) in the UK by the late 80s/90s at least because it's a 'forward slash' as opposed to a 'back slash' \ both of which are terms that were used in programming and using DoS

Just a bit odd that they didn't become known in the UK as "forward stroke" and "back stroke" (although the latter sounds more like swimming).

 

 

If you ask me anything you'll often get a detailed answer - even if you didn't want one! :whistle:

Likewise -- as you may have noticed!

Nice to know that some things haven't changed (not in the past six months, anyhow)!

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I guess in general Irene/Sherlock doesn't get a lot of attention as it is currently the only (semi)cannon pairing. They suggest it but leave it hanging in the air.

Also I feel fans are very much obsessed with pushing the boundaries of fandom and try to delve into some weird (and sometimes fantastic) areas.

 

And that’s another good point, that when names are put together it’s often hard to tell who they are referring to.

Mystrade - Mycroft and Lestrade

Sherlstrade - Sherlock and Lestrade

Johnstrade - John and Lestrade

Mormor - Moriarty and Moran

Molstrade - Molly Hooper and Lestrade

To me these all look like spelling mistakes or foreran words! I only recognise Johnlock and Irock because I've seen them so much!

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ok, first, i have to say my eyes went square catching up on this (or may be just cos i'm under the weather)

 

and you can pelt me with Gummi Snakes next time you see me Aely cos i voted the first, and i'll tell you why:

to drive you mad, lol, seriously, an american accent especially a TB style Bill Compton southern one and a few portmanteaus (none Sherlockian as yet) and steam comes out of your ears i swear to Zoot.

 

First time I heard a smushed name or Portmanteau was back in my Tribe days, they started appearing around 2000 i didn't really give it much thought Bramber didn't mean squat to me till i read it over and realised it was Bray and Amber and Texism sounded like anti-Texas people.

 

The more i've wandered (or should that be blundered) around the fic world read the more i think their good things if only as easier ways of finding things if nothing else, especially on Tumblr when your looking for good pics, yes I know your not big on Tumblr either but still. I just think I don't notice them as much as you do, think i take em as written,

 

and like you say m8 there one smush that sounds like it feels from the TW Fandom - Gwack

i did mean for this to be more detailed and more thought out like all of your posts but i can't see very well atm :D

 

 

oh and, maybe its cos i'm a budding writer myself and there's that whole "respect the ones whove made it." thing, but I draw the line at crossing Writer names, that's just *shivers* never in a Methos age, and call me hypocritical cos I used Destiel and Wincest and Janto and all that.

crossing writers names sounds like something you should do if the writer(S) suck, or destroy a verse eg RTD and Sera Gamble

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Might you then be a bit more comfortable with "John/lock" than with "Johnlock," because of the "/" delimiter

Posted Image

 

Not really - fussy bugger that I am. Plus, I would never in a million years abbreviate Sherlock's name unless someone in a fic was doing it to wind him up!

 

Ah yes, Gwack...the exception that proves the rule in my case.

 

Funnily enough, I don't mind portmanteau fandom names - Wholock, Superwho, Superwholock and so on, it just doesn't garner the same reaction (the whole steam coming out of my ears thing).

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I think they are fine for the fan art/fiction world, but to date, irrelevant for BBC Sherlock.

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BBC Sherlock is HUGE in the fan art/fiction world, so it is relevant. There are 22,150 works tagged as being Sherlock on Archive of Our Own (which is one of the biggest fanfic archives) alone and quite a few of those are also tagged as Johnlock or Mystrade.

 

Then of course there is the massive Tumblr presence of Sherlock (I hate tumblr), which seems to be where most of the art can be found (I prefer Deviant Art).

 

No fandom name is exactly relevant to its source material, unless you're a Castle fan. They actually mentioned ship names in an episode (Castle and Beckett being 'Caskett') but then Castle frequently references Firefly and Serenity too so I think you can count it as the exception that proves the rule.

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I think they are fine for the fan art/fiction world, but to date, irrelevant for BBC Sherlock.

BBC Sherlock is HUGE in the fan art/fiction world, so it is relevant....

aely, I think besleybean means that it's irrelevant to enjoying the actual BBC program (to date), even though it is of course a major theme in the related fan art and fiction.

 

I agree with both of you. ;)

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Oh yes, a great mediator and friend to all! A regular, everyday TreeTrunks.

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While I don't think of them as evil incarnate, I am not a fan of smushed names, maybe because I am not a shipper. I can see why people write Irene Adler and Sherlock fanfic...and even the Molly Hooper and Sherlock...and yes, in a post I did use the smush Sherlolly....because it is rather benign and the person I was answering was a shipper  and it is Sherlock and Molly. But it kind of does bring up an image of Molly just being a bit....I don't know....a toy...or not taken seriously....a lolly. So I don't intend to use it often, if ever again.

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No, not ships as in boats, but ships as in 'relationships' which is a piece of terminology with which you'll be familiar if you've spent any time reading fan fiction, or if you are a follower of the cult of celebrity.

 

There are probably quite a few people who aren't avid fanfic readers on this forum, which is why I'm posting this topic out here instead of in the The Mind Palace so it is more visible.

 

If you aren't a fanfic reader or writer, you might not be aware that the quality of fanfic in general can vary greatly and some of it is absolutely dreadful, riddled with clichés and terribly out of character. Happily, I would say that the majority of fanfic based around Sherlock and related works (ACD universe, RDJ universe and others) seems to have escaped from the clutches of the rabid-in-a-bad-way element of fans and writers and on the whole is pretty darned good.

 

Another thing of which a non-fanfic reading person would not be aware, is the relatively recent preponderance of 'ship' names. I say relatively recent as it's a phenomena that developed well after I first started reading and writing fanfic in the mid to late 90s and certainly didn't feature in any of my fandoms at that time.

 

If you don't know, a ship name is a portmanteau name of 2 character names that are perceived to be in a relationship, usually romantic (though it doesn't have to be). There are loads (remember Brangelina? That sort of thing).

 

The commonest in Sherlock are:

 

Johnlock - John and Sherlock

 

Mystrade - Mycroft and Lestrade

 

Sherlstrade - Sherlock and Lestrade

 

Johnstrade - John and Lestrade

 

Mormor - Moriarty and Moran

 

Molstrade - Molly Hooper and Lestrade

 

 

So, and this is where I get to the whole point of the post, what do you lovely people think of the use of these names? I know there are many people who don't like the idea of male/male romantic pairings when it is something that is not in the original source material. That's fine (it's all fine), I am just interested in what you think of the use of the names, never mind what it might imply.

 

Do you think it's cute, a way to feel like you're a member of a somewhat exclusive group or even just a handy shorthand reference?

 

Are you really not bothered about the whole thing and wonder what the fuss is about?

 

Do you not like it because you don't feel it is in keeping with the source material/characters?

 

Do you think it's a horrible thing to impose on a bunch of characters with distinct and individual personalities, whether you believe they are in a relationship or not, because every person has a right to be known by their own individual name?

 

Answers on a postcard, please, to...

 

Well, actually, you could just add your thoughts to the topic or vote in the handy poll instead.

 

 

I'll come out of the closet.

Yes, I use those.

Not always but it is rather convenient, and I am glad they exist. It just is easier to navigate through fandom if you are searching for "Johnlock" than to search for Sherlock Holmes/John Watson, BBC Sherlock. With most of these names, you get directly into BBC verse, you circumvent the older fandoms or parallel ones. Johnlock is not Sherlock Holmes /Joan Watson, for example.

This works with most other ship names, too.

 

Maybe this is more horrifying if you get into the fandom but you aren't used to horrible ship names. I actually was part of the Harry Potter fandom, and there you have nice names like Snarry (Snape/Harry, makes at least sense), but you also get stuff like "Orange Crush". I mean, who the heck knows just by reading that that it's Harry/Ginny? Or "Harmony" (Hermione/Draco)? If you google that, I wonder how often you'll find what you are searching for...

 

I suppose it's also a "know your fandom" thing. It feels exciting and completely baffling to enter new fandoms due to the terminology. But people get comfortable, and then they are "at home"... or something like that. Made more sense in my head than typed out :)

 

Btw, I am so free as to add to your list:

 

Sherstrade - more often used for Sherlock/Lestrade

Sherene - Sherlock/Irene

Holmescest - Sherlock/Mycroft

Sheriarty - Sherlock/Jim

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Holmescest - Sherlock/Mycroft

 

:blink:

 

G8oULyV.jpg

 

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Holmescest - Sherlock/Mycroft

 

:blink:

 

G8oULyV.jpg

 

 

 

 

Didn't want to shock you, Caya XD

Sorry for that. I didn't name that ship if it's any consolation for you. 

Missed one myself:

Sherlolly - Sherlock/Molly

 

I wonder if there's one for Victor/Sherlock. Haven't come across one yet, even though this odd ship has gained some popularity. I think there's more Victor/Sherlock than Sherlock/Sally, for example. A bit depressing since he hasn't made an appearance yet. Well... way of the fandom(s). We ship it anyway.

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Well, Victor Trevor is a "canon" figure and I do expect he'll appear on the BBC version some day, but I seriously doubt it will be as a lover of Sherlock's... Personally, I hate these mashups of character names, but I do see why they are useful in some contexts. I don't favor any particular relationship possibility (or impossibility). There are certainly a lot of combinations that I find totally unpalatable, though!

 

Series 3 spoilers in the following:

 

 

 

 

I really like the way the characters are "set up" for partners on the show at the moment. In spite of all that happened in His Last Vow, I still like the Watsons as a married couple (and if Mary ever leaves, I do hope she won't be "replaced"). I focus on Sherlock and John's friendship, I do think it should remain at the center of everything, I think the little "people think they are gay" jokes are funny and not insulting to anybody (it's very hard to create that kind of humor without making an overall deprecating statement about homosexuality in general, but the Sherlock writers handle it quite delicately, in my opinion), but I have no desire see them end up in bed together (and I am almost a hundred percent sure it will never happen on screen). I want Sherlock to remain single, like the original Mr Holmes did. He can have a lifelong crush on Irene Adler, if he likes, an affair with her if absolutely necessary, and that should be it, in my humble opinion.

 

Hmmm... maybe Molly and Lestrade should be granted nice partners, though. I felt very sorry for Lestrade at the wedding with only his beer glasses to keep him company, and Molly deserves better than Tom (or Sherlock in the capacity of a boyfriend). But then, in real life, not everybody who deserves it finds a nice lover, either. And while I accept that "Sherlock" is a world of its own, I do like how realistic the people in it seem.

 

 

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