What other TV shows do you watch?

[Pseudonym]

I think the accent around here is generally considered pleasant since there are so many call centres in this area - I don't think they would have spent so much money setting them up without having done studies as to whether the accent would be favourable or not. A lot of the men sound nice, a fair chunk of the women, but then you get the screechy abrasive ones... there was one of my team we just referred to as 'the seagull.' I think Scottish and Irish are my favourite accents (the softer ones, such as Edinburgh and Dublin). 

Do people in your area sound slow then? My knowledge of Indiana is limited to the kids show Eerie Indiana, where I learnt if you want to stay young forever you should sleep in Tupperware.

[Carol the Dabbler]

20 minutes ago, Pseudonym said:

I think the accent around here is generally considered pleasant since there are so many call centres in this area - I don't think they would have spent so much money setting them up without having done studies as to whether the accent would be favourable or not.

By that line of reasoning, the most pleasant sounding accent to American ears comes from India -- because that's where a huge percentage of our call centers are now located.  While I have nothing against the Indian accent, I suspect our call centers are being outsourced simply because it's cheaper.

[Carol the Dabbler]

25 minutes ago, Pseudonym said:

Do people in your area sound slow then? My knowledge of Indiana is limited to the kids show Eerie Indiana, where I learnt if you want to stay young forever you should sleep in Tupperware.

I loved Eerie, Indiana -- but it really had nothing to do with Indiana.  (By the way, if you look closely at the horizon during the opening credits, you will see the unmistakable profile of a distant palm tree against the sky.  That's not eerie, it's just California.)

Well, people around here talk slower than people on the East Coast, that's for sure.  I like to believe that's because we don't talk faster than we can think (and I seriously doubt that East Coast folks can think any faster than we do).

We have a slightly southern accent, which tends to be the one used by television and movies to denote an uneducated, uncultured person, and it's true that we've got some of those.  But I've known some pretty dumb people with East Coast accents too.

[Pseudonym]

I don't mean slow in speed more slow as in, well, what you said really, coming across as a bit dense. Even though they're not. It's the stereotypical deep south accent I always think sounds like someone is a bit dim, though again I realise you can't class an entire region of people as stupid just because of an accent.  

Talking at the speed you can think is probably a good thing. We're known for talking really fast here, which does mean sometimes I wince after saying something and really wish I'd thought it through first - at which point my mouth is normally gabbling on a few sentences ahead. 

Oh yea, we have plenty of call centres going through to India and the Philippines too, but the ones in Britain seem to be focused in certain areas of the country - mainly the areas around Swansea, Edinburgh and Newcastle. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

6 minutes ago, Pseudonym said:

It's the stereotypical deep south accent I always think sounds like someone is a bit dim, though again I realise you can't class an entire region of people as stupid just because of an accent. 

Does that accent sound intrinsically "dim" -- or have we simply been conditioned by Hollywood to interpret it that way?  I really don't know.

[Pseudonym]

The latter I suspect. Especially given the old Hollywood Southern Belle trope.

Eurgh, I remember being forced to watch A Streetcar Named Desire as part of a drama class, and everything about Viven Leigh got on my last nerve. I know a lot of people like those type of films, but anything that has women frequently clinging to walls because they are too distraught to stand on their own really 'gets on my pip.'  I think that kind of overwrought performance accompanied with a southern accent didn't do it any favours - I haven't seen Gone With the Wind, but I get the impression there's a fair bit of wall clinging in that too...? 

I'm not a fan of period pieces in general - Pride and Prejudice etc, hell no. 

[Sheerluck]

On 2018-04-25 at 3:15 PM, Pseudonym said:

Since we were talking about Richard Ayoade a while ago, here he is in fine form on a quiz show.

 

Typical Ayoade.

[Sheerluck]

19 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

Does anyone watch Red Dwarf, the old episodes not the new ones, not seen those. And, what I'm really curious about, can folks from other countries understand Lister's accent? And yes, that is a cigarette pack he's talking into.

 

And inkeeping with the space theme, has anyone seen the episode of Black Mirror 4.1 USS Callister? It starts off as a parody of Star Trek but gets increasingly sinister, I really enjoyed it. 

 

I've watched Red Dwarf from the beginning. The last two series on Dave were very good and the last, XII, had moments where it approached the classic episodes. 

[Arcadia]

I tried to watch this new series "Instinct". Basically yet another Sherlock clone, with the "twist" that he is matter-of-factly gay, and the "Mycroft" character is his father, not his brother. The Watson character is a woman with "issues" ... and the two episodes I saw were just awful. Trite, predictable dialog and circumstances. Those who bash Moffat's writing should be forced to sit and watch this show for awhile, they'd find out what "bad" writing is really like. Well, maybe it's not bad, exactly, but it's assembly line writing. It works, but there's no spark of imagination.

Too bad, because the lead is the ever-charming Alan Cumming. He deserves better.

[T.o.b.y]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

I tried to watch this new series "Instinct". Basically yet another Sherlock clone, with the "twist" that he is matter-of-factly gay, and the "Mycroft" character is his father, not his brother. The Watson character is a woman with "issues" ... and the two episodes I saw were just awful. Trite, predictable dialog and circumstances. Those who bash Moffat's writing should be forced to sit and watch this show for awhile, they'd find out what "bad" writing is really like. Well, maybe it's not bad, exactly, but it's assembly line writing. It works, but there's no spark of imagination.

Too bad, because the lead is the ever-charming Alan Cumming. He deserves better.

You know, even with Eurus and Mary's death scene, most series do not compare favorably to Sherlock in my eyes. 

Is this show so similar to Sherlock to have clearly been inspired by it? In that case, does it prove my point that adding representation of X group does not automatically make a better show and is not an advisable way of compensating for poor writing? In that case, I might watch an episode for the purpose of feeling my opinions validated. Otherwise, I will ignore it. 

Seriously, this bugs me though. I am all for all kinds of representation, I actively looked for characters that I felt represented by when I was younger and found great happiness in finding them. But representation alone does not make anyone's work better. You can't just slap a token gay / black / female / disabled / etc on top of your lazy writing and then dismiss your critics as a bunch of bigots. 

Oh, wait, you can. Happens all the time, apparently. Drives me mad because it's hard to argue for diversity in entertainment when those who are against or skeptical of it have a long list of shitty products to hurl at you. 

I actually get why some people think Sherlock specifically would have been more satisfying for them to watch if the main characters had become romantically involved. But that does not mean that if you replicate the concept of the show and make the detective gay, you will automatically have a superior result. Grumble. 

[Arcadia]

7 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

Is this show so similar to Sherlock to have clearly been inspired by it? In that case, does it prove my point that adding representation of X group does not automatically make a better show and is not an advisable way of compensating for poor writing? In that case, I might watch an episode for the purpose of feeling my opinions validated. Otherwise, I will ignore it. 

Ummm ... that's a hard one to answer. It's clearly inspired by the success of Sherlock ... big-mouthed know-it-all detective, scrappy sidekick, arch nemesis lurking in the shadows ... but the tone of it is run-of-the-mill detective procedural. No guffaw-inducing remarks, no impossible leaps over buildings, no swirling coats and Byronic pouts. And no cinematic tricks, which I maintain has as much to do with Sherlock's success as the acting and writing; it just looks different.

It's possible that Instinct is more inspired by things like Castle and The Mentalist, but the caustic nature of the protagonist's remarks, the mysterious Mycroftian figure, and above all the reveal at the end of the first episode that "Holmes" is gay and in a committed relationship made me immediately think they are hoping to cash in on the Sherlock phenomenon specifically.

The worst bit, though, was an obvious attempt to "connect" with female viewers; the tough-as-nails female "Watson" character reveals her feminine side by getting all broken up because she thinks her best friend (who is black, lest we leave any group unrepresented) has left her out of her wedding planning. It's at that point I almost changed the channel. Gah!

Oh, and they daringly break ground by having the "Holmes" character and his oh-so-understanding husband sharing an onscreen kiss. Woo-hoo, I feel so enlightened! NOT ... because they have no physical chemistry between them. They don't touch and weave and bob around each other, it's all static. It's just the form of the relationship, there's no spark in it.

Which just goes to show, not everyone can be Cumberbatch and Freeman.

 

[Pseudonym]

That sounds awful. Yeesh. 

What you said about there being a 'reveal' of him being gay, is that treated as a big thing or are they trying to make it just matter of fact? Or worse, when they do 'matter of fact' in such an overt way that it automatically becomes dramatic. If that makes sense. 

[Pseudonym]

Forgot to add, what you said about the black character - it reminds me of Criminal Minds and my conflicted feelings on it. I've been watching it for years, some seasons are definitely better than others, and over time the central team has become more and more diverse to the point they now have pretty much every race represented. The line up is currently:

3 white women,

1 white man, 

1 white Italian-American man,

1 black woman, 

1 latino man, 

1 asian man. 

Since the start of running there has always been a black guy too, but the last one was recently killed off. 

I appreciate it, but it's almost at the point where the team is diverse to the point of ridiculousness. But... at the same time, I really wish one of those characters was gay or bi, even though I know that might actually tip it over into too much. It would just be so easy to have one of them go home to a same sex partner instead of the usual beautiful, perfect wife or husband. Where do you draw the line - there's no one with disabilities on the show either, I'm sure there are loads of other groups not represented. Where to draw the line? I'm conflicted. 

By the way, off topic, Asian as used Americans and Asian as used by British people has an entirely different meaning. In America it seems to refer to Far Eastern (Chinese/Japanese/Korean etc) people. Here it refers to Middle Eastern (Indian/Iraqi/Pakistani etc) people. I wonder why that is, it gets confusing at times. I was wondering if I was going a bit nuts at one point, getting confused, but then Riz Ahmed mentioned it on a US talk show. 

[Arcadia]

58 minutes ago, Pseudonym said:

That sounds awful. Yeesh. 

What you said about there being a 'reveal' of him being gay, is that treated as a big thing or are they trying to make it just matter of fact? Or worse, when they do 'matter of fact' in such an overt way that it automatically becomes dramatic. If that makes sense. 

There were a lot of allusions to a complicated marriage beforehand, so someone like me, who still has the bias to think "wife," not "husband" when I hear the word "marriage," was not tipped off. In other words, it was a deliberate "surprise." On the other hand, the way he revealed it was just matter of fact, and the world didn't end. But at the same time the reveal was saved until the end of the episode , so the audience would, presumably, learn to like the character before also learning he was gay.  So ... a bit of mixed messages, I would say. I've seen it done a lot worse.

A lot of the long-running shows, like CSI, have replaced departing characters with minority characters, with varying degrees of success. I will say that with a government entity like CSI, it actually makes a lot of sense, because around here at least, diversity hiring has worked ... from what I've seen, most agency staff is pretty racially/ethnically/religiously diverse. It's nice. Of course, the guy at the top is always, well, a guy, and white, and of a certain age. But I will allow that they probably are still the ones with the most experience in their fields. Gee, wonder how that happened.

People of different races being besties does not ring true to me, though. (Which is ironic, since two of my best friends in previous times (i.e., before living in the heart of Dixie) were "people of color.") But based on what I see around me, in this area ... in the workplace, we're integrated; at leisure, not so much. Although I do see school kids of different races hanging out with each other, so hopefully that will change too. Except for the Muslim kids; they are clearly being excluded. Perhaps by choice, for all I know.

[Pseudonym]

I think everyone has the bias to think wife not husband, even if they are hoping the opposite is true. 

It's good that a team like that isn't too unusual. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Where is the show set?  'Cause there are parts of the country where that sort of diversity, at least not too long ago, would have required importing a few people.

[T.o.b.y]

3 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

Forgot to add, what you said about the black character - it reminds me of Criminal Minds and my conflicted feelings on it. I've been watching it for years, some seasons are definitely better than others, and over time the central team has become more and more diverse to the point they now have pretty much every race represented. The line up is currently:

3 white women,

1 white man, 

1 white Italian-American man,

1 black woman, 

1 latino man, 

1 asian man. 

Since the start of running there has always been a black guy too, but the last one was recently killed off. 

I appreciate it, but it's almost at the point where the team is diverse to the point of ridiculousness. But... at the same time, I really wish one of those characters was gay or bi, even though I know that might actually tip it over into too much. It would just be so easy to have one of them go home to a same sex partner instead of the usual beautiful, perfect wife or husband. Where do you draw the line - there's no one with disabilities on the show either, I'm sure there are loads of other groups not represented. Where to draw the line? I'm conflicted. . 

My personal opinion is that there's no line needed. Characters should be three-dimensional, individual, interesting people first and foremost. It's a dumb idea imo to have a checklist for your show that says OK, we need xyz ethnicities, all the letters in LGBT and at least three genders. Especially if all attempts at characterization stop there. "Gay" is not a personality. Neither is "female". 

Ideally, characters would be diverse because they naturally reflect the diversity of the people who created them and their diverse perspectives and imaginations. If that's not possible and you're actively seeking to represent more than straight white men, have the goodness to make the characters that aren't be people rather than tokens or ambassadors. After all, nobody says "well, my hero is a straight white dude and that's all you need to know about him." 

With good writing and interesting characters, I don't think any level of diversity is ridiculous or too much. It all depends on how it is done. 

[Pseudonym]

I'd like to believe that, and have it that way, but too often it just comes across just like someone is running through a checklist. Black character? Tick. Gay character? Tick. That's just examples of poor writing I guess. I know the actress who plays Garcia is gay, and lately her character seemed to click with a new female character... I was hoping maybe the actress had put a suggestion forward, but alas nothing came of it. 

It's set in the FBI headquarters in Quantico, Virginia, though they usually fly out to different locales each week. 

[Arcadia]

6 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

By the way, off topic, Asian as used Americans and Asian as used by British people has an entirely different meaning. In America it seems to refer to Far Eastern (Chinese/Japanese/Korean etc) people. Here it refers to Middle Eastern (Indian/Iraqi/Pakistani etc) people. I wonder why that is, it gets confusing at times. I was wondering if I was going a bit nuts at one point, getting confused, but then Riz Ahmed mentioned it on a US talk show. 

I forgot to add ... thanks for mentioning this. It's something I didn't know and have been confused by when I saw it ... I guess I just assumed whoever wrote it had made a mistake!

As far as I know, here the term "Asians" has always referred to people who were ... well, from Asia. Whereas people from the Middle East are referred to as "Middle Easterners" (when they're not being referred to by derogatory names, that is.) And I think Indians and Pakistanis are just called Indians and Pakistani's? I can't think of a group term for people from the subcontinent. Hmmm.

So what do you call people from Asia, if not Asians? Orientals? That's now a no-no, here. It acquired too many negative connotations.

4 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Where is the show set?  'Cause there are parts of the country where that sort of diversity, at least not too long ago, would have required importing a few people.

If you meant Instinct, it's set in New York.

That's exactly how diversity was acquired here, too. When I worked for the county, if we didn't have qualified minorities applying for jobs, we imported them from places that did. I'm sure it ruffled feathers, but it worked ... and now they don't have to do it anymore. Until all our qualified minorities are poached by someone else, I guess.  

44 minutes ago, Pseudonym said:

I'd like to believe that, and have it that way, but too often it just comes across just like someone is running through a checklist. Black character? Tick. Gay character? Tick. That's just examples of poor writing I guess.

Yeah, I think Toby's saying the same thing, just a different way around.

Someone who was/is really good at diversity is Joss Whedon. He had characters of every flavor in his shows, and they all felt vital and real to me, not just tossed in to boost the minority count. Which is funny, since he writes fantasy. But it's always seemed to me like the fantasy/sci fi writers were better at this than most. I remember when I was a kid, one reason I got so excited about sci fi novels (once I found them) was because they so often had female leads doing heroic things like saving planets! Cool!

[Pseudonym]

I know, I'm agreeing with her. 

I was impressed with the latest Spiderman, a school in New York was actually filled with a diverse group of students?

We just call people whatever they are. Chinese, Japanese etc. You say Asians is used for people in Asia, but since Asia is massive it does include the countries I mentioned.

[Arcadia]

Yeah, but I would say "South Americans" or "Europeans" when I wanted to indicate people from those general geographic areas, and they're pretty big too. (The areas, not the people. ) So I was wondering if the British had a term like "Asians" for people who live in the, uh, not-Asian part of Asia. Just idle curiosity.

[Pseudonym]

Ah. In which case the answer is no.

Back onto other TV shows, recently I've gotten sucked into watching 'Bondi Rescue' every night, about the lifeguards on Bondi beach. I don't have any special interest in lifeguards, I think I just like watching reality TV stuff (that's not too hammed up - hate that crap) about people's lives in other areas. I'm a sucker for Police Ten Seven in New Zealand and Alaska State Troopers too. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

On 4/30/2018 at 4:33 PM, Arcadia said:

When I worked for the county, if we didn't have qualified minorities applying for jobs, we imported them from places that did. I'm sure it ruffled feathers, but it worked ... and now they don't have to do it anymore.

In my opinion, the whole point of diversity in the workplace is to represent the community. So a workplace in Virginia would logically have a lot more blacks than a workplace in Iowa, for example.

In cases when there are not enough qualified minority applicants to reflect the local community, I suppose a case could be made for importing people.  On the other hand, this still takes jobs away from the local community.  I might rather see programs encouraging minority young people to acquire the needed skills.  Even better, eliminate irrelevant job requirements -- why do so many jobs nowadays require a college degree, for example?

Or it may be that it's simply a crappy job that nobody wants, in which case the solution is to improve the job and/or raise the pay.

 

[Arcadia]

Warning: former personnel officer going on a rant:

17 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

In my opinion, the whole point of diversity in the workplace is to represent the community. So a workplace in Virginia would logically have a lot more blacks than a workplace in Iowa, for example.

Well, you might think so, but in fact the rampant discrimination in the South, and the historic, systemic barriers to improving minority status/education/income, did not produce that result. When I first moved here, a minority in a "professional" job was a rare sight indeed. Now it's not. Not because the minorities who lived here suddenly, miraculously became qualified for those jobs, but because minorities who were qualified were recruited from elsewhere. But a rising tide lifts all boats, and there's far more opportunities for minorities here than there used to be. And far better access to education, healthcare, etc. Still not equal, but better.

When looking at a community that has few minorities to begin with, one thing to look at is ... why is it that way? What are the historical/cultural/etc. forces that caused it to be that way, and are those forces still at work? And if they are ... that's discrimination. Unintended, perhaps, but with real consequences. It's hard to integrate a community, for example, when the good old boy network ensures that new hires will always be someone from the community. Which is the situation we had (and would still have, imo, if we didn't have laws to actively counter those impulses.)

Someone's always going to lose in a competition. Right now, white men are finding out what it means to compete on a more level playing field than they are accustomed to. I understand their pain, but I don't feel sorry for them; they had the system rigged to benefit themselves for generations. Still do, to some extent, but it's eroding. Must be scary for them. Too bad.

[End of rant!]

[Pseudonym]

I can't comment much on the rant, not knowing much about staffing in general or staffing in America (though I'm guessing the same issues are prevalent everywhere).

I do find it fascinating how different some areas are from others in terms of diversity. I went to a pretty big comprehensive school (secondary school), with a fair size catchment, and in my entire school of thousands and thousands of kids there were two black kids, a few more Asian, Chinese etc but not many. Where I live now, being in a city (albeit a small one), on my section of the street, being four terraced houses, I'm the only white person. I don't live that far away from where I grew up, it's surprising how different the population is. It's quite nice to see. 

Back to TV again, I've been watching my way through Black Mirror, though not in order since each episode is stand alone. So far my definite favourite is USS Callister.