Star Trek Into Darkness

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I was making no conjectures what so ever. I have no idea what was going on in the cold pods. Had not given it any thought. Especially about all the amenities. I understand a frog's hair to be quite fine but I doubt they worry about how much it going to grow while they are in hibernation.

 

And I also understand that one cannot and will not become ones own genetic copy by just laying in a frozen state. Those things were built for one person only, heaven only knows where a clone would fit.

 

I was just exploring the scientific possibilities of a dark skinned person losing that color over time in a state of animated suspension.

 

They know now that the freezing of heads is beginning to fail, if the process was meant to succeed in the first place, by some of these companies any way.  An easy way to glean money from a person's fear of death.

 

But perhaps somewhere, in a super secret lab, they may be looking at what happens to frogs and snakes during the winter. They go into a state of suspension and have no problem reawakening as soon as the earth around them starts to warm in the spring because their cells did not freeze because of glucose acting as an anti-freeze. Glucose does not work on the human body because it is deadly so there may be something else that would work.

 

Not truly frozen but in a deep state of hibernation.

[Alex the Dabbler]

Carol and I thoroughly enjoyed this movie and can't wait to get it on DVD, although we're waiting to see what special features are on the DVD before we preorder it from Amazon.  Cumberbatch was brilliant again!

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I have it on preorder from Amazon. Don't know if they will ever make a Director's Cut. Those are always fun. A lot more footage and all added in the right context. Yes, he was. I was going to see it for a fourth time but it is no longer in our local theater. Blast and bother!

[bborchar]

We have the blu-ray of ST09, so ID will definitely be joining it when it comes out

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Oh, for pity's sake! Talk about hiding in plan sight! Khan's blood is his anti-freeze. An apparently all the other 72 members of his family would have the same advantage.

 

Even in Dr. McCoy's age the speed of Khan's cell generation was a mystery and strong enough to bring a dead tribble back to life. To say nothing of a dead Jim.

 

So yes, he could with stand the a prolonged exposure to cold because any damage caused by ice crystals would automatically be sloughed off by his body's own defense mechanism. And since this would only happen in the outer layers of the skin then the darker layers would be sloughed off while the newer, lighter skin cells would work their up and no melanin triggered.

 

 

So he is a product of a more super secret lab of his day then these so called cryogenic companies who are in danger of losing their clients in a big way permanently.

[Carol the Dabbler]

OK, so Khan is part toad or fish or something -- good ol' genetic engineering does come in handy!  Yeah, I like that, and it fits with the backstory.

 

 

... I never watch fight scenes.  My family will tell you, I look away, leave the room, whatever.  But this - I can't look away, don't want to.  I was so surprised.  I wanted to watch every single thing he did.  Why, I wondered?  What makes it different?
 
I decided it was because with other actors, they are remembering their blocking and delivering the physical requirements of the scene.  So all the violence is soulless, it's violence for the sake of itself.  But Benedict Cumberbatch knows the physical so well through his infamous rehearsal work-ethic and his character through his process that  he isn't thinking about it - he is in character at all times - that's KHAN we are watching.  It's riveting to me.

 

It occurs to me that this may be one reason why Sherlock's scale double seems so obvious in the planetarium scene of "The Great Game." He's doing a credible job of fighting with the Golem -- but he's not being Sherlock.

 

[bborchar]

 

The more I see it, the more I see the depth that is actually in all the characters.  We are so used to seeing Spock, Kirk and Scotty, I think we take them kind of for granted.  Bu t the last time I realized how much Spock's speech on the way to find Harrison on Kronos, where he is explaining himself to Uhura and Kirk, too, really, says about him and the choices he will make (I think) that eventually lead to the Mr. Spock we knew from before - or - and this is what's interesting - away from him.  In a couple more movies we could have a whole new take on Spock. 

 

 

Seeing Scotty as this hero, standing up to Kirk for what he knows is his duty, standing up to "You're big" guard  - I never saw him as a hero before, yet, it's right in character with what we knew of him from classic ST.  But he's still funny and ...  it's just a really good portrayal.

 

And Kirk - the first time I thought the opening was kind of tedious until I realized that everything later in terms of change in Kirk's standard behavior, really does spring from the consequences of his actions there.  It's quite a good script, better I think than folks realize.  I think Chris Pine is probably better than he's given credit for, also.

 

As for dear Mr. Goofybatch, no one has to say anything about his extraordinary acting, JJ already has, anyway.  But I noticed something here.  He really is violently violent when he is dealing blows.  And I never watch fight scenes.  My family will tell you, I look away, leave the room, whatever.  But this - I can't look away, don't want to.  I was so surprised.  I wanted to watch every single thing he did.  Why, I wondered?  What makes it different?

 

I decided it was because with other actors, they are remembering their blocking and delivering the physical requirements of the scene.  So all the violence is soulless, it's violence for the sake of itself.  But Benedict Cumberbatch knows the physical so well through his infamous rehearsal work-ethic and his character through his process that  he isn't thinking about it - he is in character at all times - that's KHAN we are watching.  It's riveting to me.

 

I know, I'm gushing about the stupid movie.  I just love this movie.  But I'm a Cumberbatched Trekkie, so....  

 

 

This is pretty much my same opinion of the movie.  I like the idea of a "more human" Spock and a more humble Kirk, because then we have a dynamic we haven't had before, and it shows.  I would love a sequel at some point where Khan comes back for Vengeance...but against Spock this time.  Khan's savagery in this movie was just breathtaking.  But I think what I loved the most was when Khan tells Spock "You can't even lie, how would you be expected to break bone?" and then later, Spock twists his arm around behind him and snaps it like a twig.  Just awesome.  I liked Trek growing up, but I am happy they changed it like they did.  It needed a shot in the arm.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Regarding the comments on an English actor playing a middle-eastern character, this article about Cumberbatch as Khan mentions in passing that the role was originally offered to Benecio del Toro, a Puerto-Rican actor of Spanish descent (and therefore more similar to the Mexican-born Ricardo Montalban who originated the role).

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Nice! And even the "oldheads" are not at all concerned over the "new" Khan. Very refreshing. Thank you, Carol, Cumberbatch and the interviewer.

[bborchar]

Nice! And even the "oldheads" are not at all concerned over the "new" Khan. Very refreshing. Thank you, Carol, Cumberbatch and the interviewer.

 

I've read a few articles where some Trekkers were complaining about the "whitewashing" of Khan...completely forgetting that Montelban was also white (of Spanish descent born in Mexico), and that Sikhism is not a "race", but a religion.  I had no problem with Cumberbatch playing Khan because, really, I never saw Khan as a religious figure in the old one, either.  Just a genetically modified superman.  And Cumberbatch's Khan was more sympathetic, imo.  I actually found myself rooting for him at one point, lol.  But most people praised his performance and liked the movie.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

and that Sikhism is not a "race", but a religion.  I had no problem with Cumberbatch playing Khan because, really, I never saw Khan as a religious figure in the old one, either.  Just a genetically modified superman.  And Cumberbatch's Khan was more sympathetic, imo.  I actually found myself rooting for him at one point, lol.  But most people praised his performance and liked the movie.

True and even caucasian converts to such religions will take on a name appropriate to the religion's origin. Yes JJ Abrams did make him more a victim himself but still a violent man to access in the extreme but apparently that is what Marcus was looking for. Talk about opening a Pandora's Box.

 

Every one I have talked to have loved it seeing it multiple times. I took a client of mine once and she immediately asked if we could go again. I had no problem with that and so I ended seeing it three times myself.

 

Critics have given it an A rating. Not bad at all.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Alex just emailed me links to a couple of good Trek-related interviews with Benedict Cumberbatch, one from a couple of months ago on SFX, and an undated one (but apparently from about the same era) on Cumberbatchweb.  (My apologies if either/both has been reported on the forum already.)

 

[bborchar]

 

and that Sikhism is not a "race", but a religion.  I had no problem with Cumberbatch playing Khan because, really, I never saw Khan as a religious figure in the old one, either.  Just a genetically modified superman.  And Cumberbatch's Khan was more sympathetic, imo.  I actually found myself rooting for him at one point, lol.  But most people praised his performance and liked the movie.

True and even caucasian converts to such religions will take on a name appropriate to the religion's origin. Yes JJ Abrams did make him more a victim himself but still a violent man to access in the extreme but apparently that is what Marcus was looking for. Talk about opening a Pandora's Box.

 

Every one I have talked to have loved it seeing it multiple times. I took a client of mine once and she immediately asked if we could go again. I had no problem with that and so I ended seeing it three times myself.

 

Critics have given it an A rating. Not bad at all.

 

 

I saw it four times, so it's obvious that I loved it

[aely]

I've seen it twice, with different sets of friends (first time was on my birthday) and will be getting the dvd too. The fun thing the second time around was having to explain why certain bits were significant for Trekkies as the friend I went to see it with wasn't familiar with TOS or the films - after the film had finished, of course.

[aely]

 

Does your daughter think it's a bad thing to have green eyes?  An old roommate of mine had (and presumably still has) clear green eyes which I thought were really beautiful.

 

Ha ha, no- she was just freaking out because everyone else in our family has blue eyes, and she didn't want to be different .  She's only 4, so she doesn't really understand this stuff yet, lol.  I think green eyes are absolutely gorgeous.  My husband's aunt has jade green eyes and dark hair- she's just absolutely beautiful.  But she's the only one.

 

*

 

I have green-hazel eyes, everyone else in my family has very definitely brown eyes - except for my dad who has blue-hazel eyes (very similar to Martin Freeman's, though they've faded as he's got older). Usually my eyes look either green or grey, but I have been told on occasion they've looked sludgy light brown. I always felt kind of superior as they were different to everyone elses.

 

And here are my eyes, in kind of grey mode -

 

 

I think BCs look so unusual because they are light, and thus more striking.

[bborchar]

Your eyes are gorgeous My dad had hazel eyes that looked blue, green or brown depending on what he was wearing, but neither me or my sister got those eyes. It wouldn't shock me if we carried the gene, though. My husband has blue eyes, so both of my kids have blue eyes. My daughter, however, has these really big clear blue eyes, brown hair and fair skin. She's beautiful and has even modeled some clothes for a local fashion/fsmily photographer (not as a job, though- we usually get paid in having our family pictures taken by her). She gets complimented all the time, and yet, she's like every other little (or big) girl...she worries about what others think of her. She wants to fit in- and when she noticed that her eyes were a different color blue from my husband's, son's and mine, she got scared. So I reassured her that her that her eyes were blue, even though a little bit different blue

[bborchar]

Ah, double post- I'll edit it with a picture that ran in the city newspaper featuring the clothing line she modeled last year:

 

 

Credit: Kathy Wolfe

 

 

[aely]

I was a bit of cuckoo in the nest as a kid - the one green-eyed straight haired person in a family of curly-haired, mostly brown eyed people. It didn't really worry me much but I always found it odd, until my dad showed me an old photo of his sister and I realised I have *her* hair, I just hadn't realised as she always kept it short as an adult (I also have the prematurely grey thing as her). My eyes are almost the same colour my mum's sisters were, only the more green side of sludge (hers were a greyer hazel than mine, but not as blue as my dads).

 

Funny thing is, my eldest nephew has the same hair and eyes as me and at the age of 9-10 ish we could have passed as twins.

 

I love genetics, it's fascinating.

[Julia Mae]

 

I'm also wondering whether that bit of casting may have been partly inspired by a desire to keep the identity of the villain a secret (not that it worked all that well).

 

 

I don't know if this has been covered yet, but the casting was inspired mostly by the fact that the original actor who was to play Khan dropped out a few weeks before they were to start filming and JJ was desperate to find someone who could walk in on short notice and do a job.  Finding Benedict Cumberbatch was a miracle for him.  He seems to think so, too.

 

The last thing on anyone's mind at that point was what genetic mix the actor was.   Though I presume they originally cast Benecio del Toro  with something like that in mind.

 

[Julia Mae]

 

Eye color is a polygenic phenotypic character determined by two distinct factors: the pigmentation of the eye's iris^[1][2] and the frequency-dependence of the scattering of light by the turbid medium in the stroma of the iris.^[3]

In humans, the pigmentation of the iris varies from light brown to black, depending on the concentration of melanin in the iris pigment epithelium (located on the back of the iris), the melanin content within the iris stroma (located at the front of the iris), and the cellular density of the stroma.^[4] The appearance of blue, green, as well as hazel eyes results from the Rayleigh scattering of light in the stroma, a phenomenon similar to that which accounts for the blueness of the sky. Neither blue nor green pigments are ever present in the human iris or ocular fluid.^[3][5] Eye color is thus an instance of structural color and varies depending on the lighting conditions, especially for lighter-colored eyes.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_color

 

 

 

 

 

Having much discussion about why Khan looks different from another version's Khan doesn't make sense to me unless we are going to try and figure out how, in the next ten years, Kirk's hair turns from naturally wavy  to naturally straight or Spock's ears go from attached lobes to unattached lobes.   You can explain neither of these things genetically.

 

He is who he is and he's darned pretty.

 

 

 

[Caya]

 

He is who he is and he's darned pretty.

 

Well no one's arguing with that .

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Yes he is and he makes one hellova Khan. And as it was pointed out in an earlier post  Sikhism is not a race but a religion so he could have been a convert but really....who really cares. Fans love it and are still flocking to the theaters that are still showing it and the critics like it too and that's all that really matters. Racism does not need to raise it's ugly head.

 

It was just fun discussing and exploring the what if's. And there is no harm in that.

 

[Caya]

Yeah, I don't think anyone here actually took that seriously. Was more akin to discussing how come that Spock Prime's ears changed their shape ever so slightly over the years .

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Can ear shape change with age? Sagging and stuff?

[Caya]

I guess it could, given Vulcan ear size, but somehow Vulcan ears sagging with age seems a bit, don't know, undignified .

 

Btw, there's a fairly hilarious take on the whole Pale Khan thing on ao3: Sure, My Name Is Khan,