Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[Sacker]

Not at all. It makes her her own person when she finally puts aside her feelings of inferiority and subordination. She moves past being an enamored school girl and stands as his equal. Not as a detective or an intellect, but as a person, which is even more powerful.. So much so that she sees it necessary to scold him for his behavior. In that regard, as a suspected addict having lied to the people who care about him, he's a subordinate.

[Sacker]

Also, I suspect a large part of her lashing out at him was her own anger at him (and fear) for possibly taking himself out of her world. When she's scolding him, she's speaking as much for herself as she is the people who care about him.

 

*edit*

It reminds me of a scene from an episode of Doctor Who titled Vincent And The Doctor. 

 

 

There is a scene where Van Gogh defends a creature, who he at first thought was dangerous and mean, but turns out not to be. He says (in the creature's defense) "He wasn't without mercy at all. He was without sight.... He was frightened, and he lashed out".

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

That quote could apply somewhat to Mary as well, I think.  Not necessarily frightened, but obviously caught by surprise and pressured into making a decision.

 

Added:  Was that by any chance a Moffat episode you quoted?  Maybe you've discovered another of his characteristics as a writer.

[T.o.b.y]

That quote could apply somewhat to Mary as well, I think.  Not necessarily frightened, but obviously caught by surprise and pressured into making a decision.

 

What were her options, anyway? She could have accepted Sherlock's offer to help. But that would most certainly have meant telling John the truth, and she was convinced that had to be avoided at all cost. She could also have tried to knock him out, like she did with Magnussen. But Sherlock is a dangerous opponent and it might not have worked, while with a gun, she had a much better advantage. Of course, because she decided not to kill him, she had to go for option one in the end, anyway, but I think it is fair to assume that she thought she could threaten him into silence if she showed him what she could do to him in case he didn't cooperate. She underestimated him a bit.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

She underestimated him a bit.

 

  Which people seem readily to do, and what Sherlock has learned to cultivate and use to his own advantage.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Well, it was only fair that Mary underestimated Sherlock, because he had just underestimated her -- Sweet Little Mary Watson, wouldn't hurt a fly, borrowed John's gun just to scare Magnussen.

 

She also underestimated John's resilience, by the way -- though of course it took him several months to make much progress.

 

[Caya]

I don't think that was John's gun. Not an expert but the barrel was longer iirc.

[Undead Medic]

I don't think that was John's gun. Not an expert but the barrel was longer iirc.

 

It had a silencer fitted too, If I recall.

[Slithytove]

/>

 

 

That quote could apply somewhat to Mary as well, I think. Not necessarily frightened, but obviously caught by surprise and pressured into making a decision.

What were her options, anyway? She could have accepted Sherlock's offer to help. But that would most certainly have meant telling John the truth, and she was convinced that had to be avoided at all cost. She could also have tried to knock him out, like she did with Magnussen. But Sherlock is a dangerous opponent and it might not have worked, while with a gun, she had a much better advantage. Of course, because she decided not to kill him, she had to go for option one in the end, anyway, but I think it is fair to assume that she thought she could threaten him into silence if she showed him what she could do to him in case he didn't cooperate. She underestimated him a bit.

Nah. She's a wrong 'un. She had a choice and chose, at the very least, to put Sherlock's life in grave danger. (And, if I was John, I would never have bought that "surgery" line. You can't put a bullet into someone and expect to avoid all major organs, veins and arteries. No wonder he nearly died.)

 

Why would accepting Sherlock's help mean telling John the truth? Sherlock lies through his teeth to John when it suits him. If she had accepted his offer and begged for his silence, he would probably have agreed. He hardly has conventional values. It would have been less risky than shooting him and maybe having him name her as the shooter if he survived.

 

Of course, CAM could have told John (though if he had been knocked out first, he wouldn't have known exactly what happened) but he always had that option anyway and never took it. Presumably he thought that the less people who knew about Mary, the greater his hold over her.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Oh no, I don't think it was John's gun either.  Just that maybe Sherlock assumed it was.  He's terrific at noticing details when he wants to, but can be awfully thick at other times (though I'll admit that's usually with social-type things).

 

It's just that if he'd allowed himself to realize that it was NOT John's gun, meaning that Mary had a gun of her own (in the handgun-shy UK, yet) he would have been forced to consider that she might be very, very serious.  In order to continue thinking of her as John's sweet little wife (to the extent of addressing her as "Mrs. Watson"), he would have needed to ignore that piece of evidence.

 

So "borrowed John's gun" was my take on Sherlock's impression of the situation.

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

 

Why would accepting Sherlock's help mean telling John the truth? Sherlock lies through his teeth to John when it suits him. If she had accepted his offer and begged for his silence, he would probably have agreed.

 

If Mary thought that, then she would have done it. But she didn't, so I guess it didn't seem like a safe enough strategy to her, at least not at that particular moment when John was actually in the building and could have shown up any minute. There was no time to negotiate. She needed to get away fast and to make sure Sherlock would not betray her to her husband for the time being. Later, she seems to have expected just what you say, that given the proper time, place and opportunity, she could convince Sherlock to keep silent because she knew it wouldn't be the first time he left John in the dark about something important, just as long as he had the situation under control himself. Interesting that it didn't wok, by the way.

 

One particularly chilling scene in His Last Vow, for me, is when Mary goes into the empty building and faces John, who she thinks is Sherlock, gun in hand, apparently considering shooting him for real if all else fails. Whenever I watch this, I skip a heartbeat thinking oh my god, what if she had pulled the trigger and killed her own husband!

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Why would accepting Sherlock's help mean telling John the truth? Sherlock lies through his teeth to John when it suits him. If she had accepted his offer and begged for his silence, he would probably have agreed. He hardly has conventional values. It would have been less risky than shooting him and maybe having him name her as the shooter if he survived.

That's assuming an awful lot for a split-second decision.

 

I assume that Mary had been accustomed to working alone. Even though she'd been away from that life for five years, there in Magnussen's bedroom she was back in secret-agent mode, relying only on herself. Trusting Sherlock's judgement would have meant losing control of the situation. I'm not saying that I agree with her decision, merely that I can believe she did the only thing she could think of under the circumstances.

 

Sherlock was posing an immediate threat to her, so she didn't have time to think it through. If he'd stayed where he was when she warned him, maybe they could have come to some sort of understanding. But he didn't give her that opportunity. So I suspect that Sherlock's "surgical precision" claptrap was in part a cover story, so he wouldn't have to admit that he'd misjudged her and put her in an untenable position.

[T.o.b.y]

Seems we were replying to the same post simultaneously, Carol... This episode is really a blessing as far as discussion material goes!

[TheWoman]

Finally sat down and watched HLV today online.  I thoroughly enjoyed it!  Series 3 had felt slightly unfamiliar (in terms of characterization) to me, but I felt the stride come back in all the characters by Sign of Three.  HLV had the rhythm of the dynamics  I've come to love with these characters.

 

My favorite was really getting a sense of Sherlock's back story; often Mycroft's quips about Sherlock in previous series left me wanting so much about our favorite Detective.  So to see flashbacks and moments of true sincerity from Sherlock was really powerful and added so much to this plot line.

 

And Mary!  Can we PLEASE talk about Mary!  A force to be reckoned with...I loved her from her first scene, and her twists and turns were well-timed in the story, and very enjoyable.  (Totally teared up at that fireplace scene with her and John...the feels ya'll...).  I really love what they've done with this character.

 

And that plane scene...forget it.  Talk about a blubbering mess. #TeamKleenex

 

And with an ending like this one, if I have to wait another year and some change to find out how the HELL this man survived...I will hunt Gatiss down and give him a piece of my mind, so help me god.

 

 

--TheWoman

[Caya]

Mary (and her twist) has proven to be a topic with a lot of differing opinions. She's got her own thread here, too.

 

I *love* the term #TeamKleenex .

 

I just found an interesting screenshot on tumblr, you might want to follow the link if I don't manage to get the forum to make this show up big enough to read: (eta: it worked out, just click on it)

 

 

So Janine of all people came to John's aid in his fight against the "confirmed bachelor" tag .

[T.o.b.y]

"The sex was mind blowing"? Wishful thinking at work, hm?

[Carol the Dabbler]

Is that a close-up of when Janine's showing the newspapers to Sherlock in the hospital?

 

[T.o.b.y]

Must be. I recognize the headline. She sure had fun coming up with stories to tell the reporters... Janine is so funny. And genuinely cool, not gun-toting "I'm a psychopath" cool. And at least she was allowed by the script to take her life into her own hands.

[TheWoman]

Must be. I recognize the headline. She sure had fun coming up with stories to tell the reporters... Janine is so funny. And genuinely cool, not gun-toting "I'm a psychopath" cool. And at least she was allowed by the script to take her life into her own hands.

 

Agreed.  I thought she was very captivating.  And your last point about her  is spot on, and well said!

[Sacker]

Series 3 had felt slightly unfamiliar (in terms of characterization) to me, but I felt the stride come back in all the characters by Sign of Three.   HLV had the rhythm of the dynamics  I've come to love with these characters.

 

(Emphasis mine in the above quote).

 

Your statement is how I feel and exactly why His Last Vow is my favorite of Season 3.  A Sherlock uber-nerd friend of mine had told me ahead of time to give Season 3 a couple of episodes for the show to get its sea legs.  They'd come back from a very long hiatus. To me, he was absolutely right.  I thoroughly enjoyed the first two, but Last Vow really worked for me.

[Carol the Dabbler]

They had kinda bitten off a lot with "Reichenbach," and it took them a while to chew it!

 

[Janine M. Adler]

I've a few questions in my mind while re-watching HLV.
What was the problem with putting Sherlock in an actual prison? I know Mycroft thinks that no prison can hold Sherlock or causes riot in daily basis. But prisoners even Sherlock can be kept in some prison cells where escapade can be impossible. Riots can be controlled, besides murdering a man can destroy Sherlock's reputation. His explation seems a bit inappropriate to me. So why Mycroft thinks like that? Is he wants to escape the pain to see his little brother in prison or hear his sentencing during his trial? To the jury he spoke seems a bit unofficial meeting to me rather than an actual trial. 
 Though sending Sherlock to a near-death mission is really hard, but still it makes me to think about Mycroft's real plan. (Although he clears himself that he doesn't speaking for brotherly compassion. But he also admits that Sherlock's loss will break his heart. Pretty controversial, isn't it?)

 So is that Mycroft advocates this punishment because he secretly believes Sherlock will actually survive the M16 mission? Perhaps Sherlock did something very like, and survived during his hiatus. Besides whole faking death plan and hideout entirely involved Mycroft always.  Though the mission means near-certain death, but it also seems like the kind of adventure Sherlock would be amenable to, and therefore, not entirely a punishment. Besides Mycroft rescued Sherlock once in undercover, was he planning to do the same this time?

Or does Mycroft know/believe that the REAL punishment, in the sense of the thing that truly hurt and upset Sherlock, is the separation from John?

It is pretty unbelievable to call back some exiled murderer to stop  Morierty  in the first place before using other forces (government secret service, or other things like that) which may involve some government issue. And the gif seems pretty ridiculous, even the voice doesn't belongs to Morierty. And the timing...it was pretty suspicious. Of Morierty is truly alive, why would he stop his arch enemy from going to the near fatal mission. 
 
So I'm wondering  about the accuracy / honesty of NOT exiling Sherlock because he's the only one who could stop Moriarty: what about Mycroft himself?  I've a suspicion that  he doesn't want to lose his dear brother. And the video of Moriarty himself at the end of the credit is just a teaser from the writer (ok, I always want to ignore the part)

[cumberholmes]

what happened to Donovan?

[Pamela]

what happened to Donovan?

I've been wondering the same thing.  The last we saw her was when Sherlock called Lestrade away from arresting the Waters gang at the beginning of Sign of Three.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Donovan has never been in all of the episodes.  According to IMDb, she's been in only the following:

 

"A Study in Pink"

"The Great Game"

"The Reichenbach Fall"

"The Empty Hearse" (uncredited)

"The Sign of Three"

 

I can't offhand place her in "Empty Hearse," but I suspect it was in one or more of the scenes repeated from "Reichenbach."  Can anyone confirm or correct that?