Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

The classic villain indeed. Totally ruthless without scruple or a shred of moral fiber. No wonder Mycroft didn't want this to go to trial. I don't even want to begin to think about his duplicity in protecting and "using" people like CAM and all of that would have come out. Mycroft was under CAM's thumb just like Sherlock said. He could be seen as an accessory to at least some of CAM's crimes.  Especially if those crimes resulted in death, like Lord Smallwood.

 

Dear, dear. Mr. Holmes. You should be happy your baby brother put an end to CAM. He put an end to your troubles as well. You better be prepared to protect Sherlock with everything you have in your arsenal of tricks.

[Janie]

 

  People like him throw the universe out of balance and the only way to get it and the story...

 

 

That is important. Some people keep forgetting that it's just a story, not real life. That's why I can enjoy it. I hate violence in real life but that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy it in fiction. Well, I wouldn't like it if Sherlock turned into a serial killer and killed someone in every other episode but I believe this was an exception and it won't happen again. Surely the writers can think of something more interesting for him. 

[jesskayding]

Although it may actually...happen again.

 

I don't think Sherlock was swinging that Machete willy nilly when he rescued the woman. & John killed the Spider & the cabby. the woman's booby trap killed that CIA agent. So yeah me's thinks weez gon' see a whole lot mo' killin'.

 

I think the CAM thing felt different from being necessary for some of us. ^_^

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

John killed the Spider?  I thought he killed himself?  There were actually very few murder mysteries in the canon. I think Janie is right. Sherlock actually killing CAM might have been the one off. Like Moriarty at Reichenbach Falls.

 

There will have to be cases, or it wouldn't be interesting....but I think Sherlock will have learned and grown from his experiences in Season 3. I hope Mycroft does.

[jesskayding]

Nope John kicked that contraption sending the arrow into the Spider's chest. Well I guess technically Shan set that up, so he had assistance.

 

What I mean is, per the continual hand to hand combat we see, There could be another time when we witness Sherlock kill someone. Just maybe under different circumstances.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Ohhhh! That Spider....from the Blind Banker. I always thing of Moriatry as "The Spider". My bad.

[Zain]

From my understanding zain he used peoples pressure points. Most weren't criminal. He used John & hinted @ Redbeard to get to Sherlock. That one mans pressure point in the opening credits of HLV was his handicapped daughter.

 

Zain are you perfect. Is there anything that you've done privately, or something embarrassing about you or someone you love that you wouldn't want broadcast for everyone to see/read?

 

I personally wouldn't want certain abuses done against me publicized... I'd be humiliated. CAM was like that. Mostly with people who " weren't important ". How cruel

 

People can control what they do, but what about things done against them? Why humiliate Lady Smallwood for her husbands indiscretions.

 

So again how do we stop something like CAM? HoW?????

 

 

No, I am not perfect by far. I try to live by my principles as best as I can, but I disappoint myself far too often for my liking.

That does not mean that I feel justified to kill someone if they were blackmailing me. My life is a tad too boring to find horrible skeletons, however, assuming I had something hidden away, then could I begrudge someone that they made my crimes public? If it is horrible and affected other people that I wronged, then I think it should be made public. For the sake of the people I wronged. Like with Mary who killed other people. Or Lord Smallwood who had some sort of relationship with a minor. Both are offenses that should be made public. Even if Lord Smallwood truly was as innocent as Lady Smallwood claims that her husband claimed, this should be investigated for the sake of the minor. It is a serious matter.

 

That's what I am saying. Magnussen's blackmailing is wrong, however, the fact that he found out other people's truths is not by default wrong. If he was an honest citizen, he would instead go to the police. It's his dishonesty and self-interest that I condemn.

 

And I just cannot see how this justifies killing him to keep those secrets hidden away. Would it not be much more efficient to take away his ammunition? If Lord Smallwood was as innocent as Lady Smallwood states, why not "stand up to Magnussen" and go public with it? It takes away all blackmail material he has on them. And if Lord Smallwood is innocent, then that girl could testify in his favor, too. If Magnussen left a trace of his blackmail, it would even be possible to get him convicted for it! Not by adding to your skeletons in the corner. Sure, it might have a negative effect on your reputation... but is it not much more of a relief than to keep hoping your blackmailer will not reveal the truth in a year, in two, in a decade? If you mention that you were blackmailed, you may not be allowed to name the blackmailer without proof in public, but you can make enough allusions. And you might even get some sympathizers. It makes you look less guilty, too, to openly allow for an investigation. It makes you look a lot less guiltier.

 

 

 

Funny, I always perceive my countrymen as terribly uncaring and not the least bit interested in the fate of others. But they do seem to love to criticize everything American. Don't ask me why. I've given up arguing with people about "overseas", I just nod politely until the conversation is over.

 

Back to Magnussen: Zain, I get your point, but it seems as if having a clean slate would not, in fact, protect you from the man. As Carol says, the pressure points he used were not all hidden sins. Look at what he did with Sherlock. He didn't go for his drug history, or any crimes he's committed. Instead, he had John kidnapped and put in a fire. Magnussen took Sherlock's one big redeeming trait, his love for his friend, and used it against him. He did the same with Lady Smallwood concerning her husband, and John concerning Mary. To protect yourself from Magnussen, not only would you have to "not hide your dirt", you would also need to "not love anybody". He's a classic villain.

 

 

I find myself dazzled by the north once again. Seems like it's not just our different accents that make communication hard at times I suppose the "criticize Americans" trend is fairly recent. Two years, now, maybe. Just a general disappointment and a feeling of being insulted and thought of as inferior, I suppose. I've noticed, too, that people are very dissatisfied with how these international scandals have been handled. But politics is not really something where people ever will agree on. I prefer not to take a stance in such matters. One of those topics where it is wiser to consider one's words very carefully. With politics, people tend to become more radical about their views than on any other topic. Which is not a bad thing per sé. It is an important topic, and certainly more important than some rumours about celebrities. But I agree. There's a very dissatisfied majority. And one may argue that it is justified, or one may argue that it is not. Both have their valid arguments.

 

The thing is, we sadly do not get to see Magnussen blackmail someone with something they did not do. I would prefer it if they had him make something up. Then I would find it much easier to condemn all his actions. But because both incidents which are portrayed are true, and are based on crimes, I cannot condemn him for finding out those truths that will affect other parties, innocent ones, too. I only can condemn him for the blackmail. I think it's good that he found out those truths. But it is bad that he did not go to the police. It is bad that he blackmailed other people. I cannot really condemn him for the fact that these truths hurt other people, as well. If he had gone to the police, Lady Smallwood would also have been affected. So it boils down, in my opinion, to the blackmail, and that is the only crime he committed. Being loathsome is not a crime in itself.

I agree with you in almost all your major points. I simply have this problem with defining his crimes. Sure, he used other people's mistakes to get to innocent people. And that is despicable. But is that truly only his fault, and is it alright to only have him suffer the repercussions? If those people had not hidden their crimes, their loved ones would not have been left this vulnerable. Again, if Mary had been properly charged with murder, John would have suffered, too. And when she hid her crimes, she risked his vulnerability. She made not only herself, but also those around her vulnerable. So these people are as much to be blamed for the suffering of their loved ones as the blackmailer. Because it is not like their loved ones would not suffer if the crimes were made public through official channels. That is why I cannot really understand why only Magnussen should be punished this severely. He is fully to blame for the blackmail, but only partly for hurting innocents.

I just think that it is difficult. Both cases involve incriminating truths, and both deserve to be brought to the police's attention. Both would also have other people be hurt. If there was at least one case in which Magnussen used a hidden secret that was not a crime itself, or that would only destroy a person's reputation and not have them undergo a police investigation, then it would be easier to fully condemn him and be content with the outcome. But in the end, he is the one that is killed, and there are no lasting repercussions to the other party that is to be blamed. Lord Smallwood took his life instead of facing the truth, and Mary chooses not to face the consequences.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

If the affair happened before Lord and Lady Smallwood got married and Lady Smallwood married him any way even after seeing the letters, what was it to CAM that he continue twisting the metaphorical knife?  There was something he wanted from the couple....like his said...."It's all about ownership".  The suicide happened sometime after Lady Smallwood involved the Holmes's so one of his little puppets had gotten bold and had to be punished. So drive the husband to utter and total despair. Murder him by suicide.

 

CAM wasn't interested in the police or even the law. He was all the power he could ever want or need. He held all the cards. No one could touch him....he was protected. He could do what ever he wanted to whom ever he wanted and get away with it and he knew it.

[jesskayding]

He blackmailed Lady Smallwood. She was really upstanding, she did nothing. Apparently she didn't give into his demands, causing her too lose the man she loves (her only pressure point) poor Lady Smallwood.

 

Also what her husband did was before they were married, also it was put out there that he didn't know her real age. I used to lie about my age. Also I've been in situations where I look guilty but was completely innocent in the matter.

 

Also Magnussen tells John & Sherlock... Don't have to have proof, it's the news. So people are gonna believe it because its being published in a newspaper... Has to be true.

 

I mean we're not going to see eye to eye on this. It didn't happen in real life so, doesn't really matter.

[jesskayding]

Fox the above was in reply to Zain.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Thanks, Jess.....understood.

 

  I have to agree with you. As Sherlock said in "TRF"  wrap the big lie in just enough truth to make it believable and people will eat it up.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I suppose an old fashioned frontal lobotomy might work?

 

Sorry, but as I understand it, a lobotomy would take away his emotions and his intellect, but not his memories (and results are unreliable in any case).  I suppose he'd be less interested in hurting people if it was no longer any fun, and he'd be less capable of elaborate scheming -- but he'd still know who did what to whom, and might tell, especially if asked.

 

Nasty business, lobotomies.  Wouldn't wish them on anyone.

[jesskayding]

Oh well. I thought that would've been it.

[Zain]

 

I suppose an old fashioned frontal lobotomy might work?

 

Sorry, but as I understand it, a lobotomy would take away his emotions and his intellect, but not his memories (and results are unreliable in any case).  I suppose he'd be less interested in hurting people if it was no longer any fun, and he'd be less capable of elaborate scheming -- but he'd still know who did what to whom, and might tell, especially if asked.

 

Nasty business, lobotomies.  Wouldn't wish them on anyone.

 

 

 

Completely going off-topic, but now that you mentioned it, does anybody know how a lobotomy supposedly functions? Or how it is properly done? I have no idea whatsoever. To take away someone's intellect, would you destroy the neuron pathways? But could you not "recover" them spontaneously due to the brain's ability to "circumvent" problematic areas?

[jesskayding]

I have no idea.

 

Did you try clicking on that link in Carol's post?

[Zain]

Skimmed it. Wikipedia's a great institution, and it offers up so much quick information. But if you really want to understand something, usually books work better. Or, what I've discovered for myself, online courses. It's brilliant what you can learn from right at home. Sure, you get less material and often, it is more difficult to go deeper into a topic than if you took "proper" classes, but it's much more transparent than normal education. Broader, too. Usually, once you chose a "direction", you rarely get to look into other directions. If you study economics, you will not have time to study literature, too, and so on.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I used to know a nurse who had worked with another nurse who'd had (believe it or not) a voluntary lobotomy.  Apparently her emotional problems had been just overwhelming.  My friend said this gal was a perfectly functional nurse, pleasant person and all, but had no emotions whatsoever.  That's the only incident I've ever known of sort of personally.

 

Basically it seems that they just sever some connections within the brain, with results being of course somewhat unpredictable.  I believe the primary intent is to stop the person from having uncontrollable emotions (and/or to make the person more docile), but other brain functions can be impaired as a side effect.

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

That is important. Some people keep forgetting that it's just a story, not real life.

 

Oh, I doubt anybody around here really forgets that. I like to willfully ignore it sometimes, though... And I understand being passionate about a story, even about the ethics of a story. Though I have different standards myself for stories versus reality, that doesn't mean I take them less seriously. Stories are terribly important. I'd probably be dead, or a least insane, by now, if it weren't for all the stories that found their way into my life. Bless the storytellers...

 

I feel a bit sad for everybody who can't fully enjoy His Last Vow because some of the plot twists grate on their sense of what is right. I so hate it when a tale and / or characters I like get marred. (And this seems like the right moment to do a complete volte-face and and heartily defend fan fiction. Sometimes, I guess the good old fix-it fic is the only way to deal with a disappointment like that.)

 

I love His Last Vow, now, but it took a good bit of getting used to.

[Arcadia]

Didn't they also used to use them to treat epilepsy and other seizures? Oooof, just thinking about it makes me a little queasy.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Just about any new medical treatment tends to be promoted as a panacea, so it wouldn't surprise me if lobotomies were originally used for everything except ingrown toenails.

 

[jesskayding]

Well now days they just remove your gallbladder for everything.

 

 

I have a really bad cough, let's remove your gallbladder.

 

I fell down the stairs & this bruise on my hip just won't go away, ok we'll remove your gallbladder.

 

I think my vision is getting weaker in my left eye, ok we need to remove your gallbladder.

 

 

Seriously, I had several friends get their gallbladders removed for things that seemingly didn't relate, & they're all like - Well the gallbladder no longer has any real use in our bodies anymore.

 

Ok so I guess I'll go get my gallbladder removed - while I'm @ it get a quick lobotomy.

[Zain]

Seriously? Gallbladder? Haven't heard of that trend here. But they do love to advise that people laser their eyes. And if you got too much time, better get your moles removed. After all, "could be dangerous."

 

Do you know by any chance if that nurse consciously recognizes the difference between before and after, Carol? And is it a feeling of loss, of less than before, or are you not able to recognize it anymore?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I was far from bring serious about the lolobotomy. But it was used in the Basil Rathbone version of the "Hound of the Baskerville". The escaped convict, Selden had been given one. In that instance he became simple and harmless. Since Mycroft is involved, maybe Molly has both Moriarty and CAM and their both going to get new and better brains.

[by the sea]

Well now days they just remove your gallbladder for everything.

 

 

I have a really bad cough, let's remove your gallbladder.

 

I fell down the stairs & this bruise on my hip just won't go away, ok we'll remove your gallbladder.

 

I think my vision is getting weaker in my left eye, ok we need to remove your gallbladder.

 

 

Seriously, I had several friends get their gallbladders removed for things that seemingly didn't relate, & they're all like - Well the gallbladder no longer has any real use in our bodies anymore.

 

Ok so I guess I'll go get my gallbladder removed - while I'm @ it get a quick lobotomy.

 

LOL !       I come from a long history of bad gallbladders and found out two weeks ago that I have gallstones.  Really miffed as I thought it had skipped a generation but no such luck.  They do these things laparoscopically (sp ?) these days ... had something done that way already .. oh !  my twinging belly button !   Do you suppose they could do a lobotomy that way ?  Like pliers up your nose ??  GAWD !  Just the thought is enough to make you radically change your behavior without the surgical interference.  Don't think it would have worked on CAM, though.  He wasn't meant to be redeemed !

 

Debbie

[jesskayding]

Debbie that's hilarious. I think you're the only one so far who found my post funny. So thank you for getting it.

 

I like making jokes & poking fun here & there. Sometimes things/life can be taken way to seriously.