Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[T.o.b.y]

Sorry, I didn't mean why she didn't want him to read it -- but rather why she had done whatever was on that flash drive.  (Just as he wanted to know why Sherlock hadn't let him know that he was alive.)  Seems like he's assuming that she had no good reason, i.e., that he doesn't trust her judgement, which seems like an odd attitude toward a wife.  (Yes, I know, but I'd expect better from John.)

 

Well, sorry, John (and sorry, Carol), but his attitude towards his wife displeases me, anyway.

"She wasn't supposed to be like that" - well, thanks a lot, feller. It's great to know that you don't love Mary for who she is, you're not even interested in who she really is, you apparently love some kind of idea of a woman whose main attraction is that she is not like Sherlock Holmes. Hurray!

 

By the way, "is everyone I have ever met a psychopath?" can be answered with a whole-hearted no. Mike Stamford seems like a perfectly decent, nice, ordinary guy. Sarah was definitely not "like that", and neither were John's other girl-friends, as far as we know. The only "like that" person around until Mary came along was Sherlock. And he was the only one John seemed to feel any really close connection to, so I think I believe the "abnormally attracted to dangerous people and situations" theory (sorry again, Carol). Poor John, he is pretty "like that" himself, come to think of it, what with not being able to settle down happily in a nice house with a nice family without getting bad dreams, becoming restless, and eagerly grasping the next best opportunity to storm into a drug den, armed with nothing but a tire leaver and the knowledge that his pregnant wife thinks this is sexy behavior.

 

One would expect he'd be happy to learn that his wife is from the same planet and he is not, in fact, doomed to a life of dull domesticity, but nope, even after he's had months to think about everything, all he wants is "Mary Watson", and lets burn the rest.

 

Mary is probably way more okay with all this than I am. I guess I'm supposed to believe she wants it that way, that she wants to let her past go and truly be someone new, but for me, it has very little to do with true love.

 

I am kind of sad that the John and Mary romance has been essentially spoiled for me, because I'm just used to the idea that they were meant for each other since 1890, and Amanda Abbington and John Freeman have great chemistry on screen. I couldn't think of any more ideal casting.

 

So forgive me a little bit of bitterness...

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yeah, that's kinda how I felt about the second Hobbit movie -- all that potential -- wasted. 
 
By the way, if anyone's interested, I can still make a case for John being attracted to dangerous people primarily because he feels that they need him (to protect them from themselves, basically, and/or patch them up afterwards).
 

By the way, "is everyone I have ever met a psychopath?" can be answered with a whole-hearted no. Mike Stamford seems like a perfectly decent, nice, ordinary guy. Sarah was definitely not "like that", and neither were John's other girl-friends, as far as we know.

 

Hmm, well that's what I thought about Mary till the middle of "Last Vow."  Now I'm expecting that Mrs. Hudson will turn out to have been a real gun moll!

 

[T.o.b.y]

Yeah, that's kinda how I felt about the second Hobbit movie -- all that potential -- wasted. 

 

By the way, if anyone's interested, I can still make a case for John being attracted to dangerous people primarily because he feels that they need him (to protect them from themselves, basically, and/or patch them up afterwards).

 

I'm always interested in your thoughts, especially if they go in a different direction that my own. What's the fun in talking to people when they only tell me what I know or believe already? Go right ahead, Carol... (I don't actually expect to be convinced, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate your viewpoint... )

 

[sfmpco]

Very interesting Tumblr blog on the fake relationship with Janine - and how a person with Aspergers would really deal with her.

 

http://chitarra10.tumblr.com/post/73477791593/human-error

 

I thought it made some incredibly valid points, but whether this was so thoughtfully in the writer's mind is another thing.  Still, when interpreted like this, it is incredibly profound.

[Carol the Dabbler]

By the way, if anyone's interested, I can still make a case for John being attracted to dangerous people primarily because he feels that they need him (to protect them from themselves, basically, and/or patch them up afterwards).

 

I'm always interested in your thoughts, especially if they go in a different direction that my own. What's the fun in talking to people when they only tell me what I know or believe already? Go right ahead, Carol... (I don't actually expect to be convinced, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate your viewpoint... )

 

 

Ya sure about that?    OK, here goes.

 

First off, I am not saying that I think my interpretation is bullet-proof, just that it's fully as defensible as the "attracted to danger" interpretation.  (And yes, I know that Moftiss don't agree with me -- but what do they know?      They can't even make up their minds whether Moriarty is dead or alive.)

 

I've held this view since well before Series 3 aired, based primarily on "Study in Pink," wherein John starts out in poor spirits -- according to Mycroft, because he misses the war, and I agree -- but not simply because of the danger (as Mycroft seems to think) but mostly because he felt needed there.  I assume that's why he became a doctor, to help people, and now the Army has told him he's no longer of any use to them, so he's taken a huge blow to his professional identity and his self-esteem (which would be enough to depress just about anybody.)  Then he shrugs off Sherlock's first two texts, but jumps to his feet after reading "Could be dangerous."  I know most people think he's thinking "Oh goodie, danger!" but it seems to me just as likely that he's concerned about Sherlock's safety, and recognizes this as an opportunity to do something useful.  I don't think that John is necessarily repelled by danger.  He's a soldier after all, so it's part of his job, and he probably even enjoys it to some extent.  But I don't see that as his primary motivation.

 

The only "like that" person around until Mary came along was Sherlock. And he was the only one John seemed to feel any really close connection to, so I think I believe the "abnormally attracted to dangerous people and situations" theory (sorry again, Carol). Poor John, he is pretty "like that" himself, come to think of it, what with not being able to settle down happily in a nice house with a nice family without getting bad dreams, becoming restless, and eagerly grasping the next best opportunity to storm into a drug den, armed with nothing but a tire leaver and the knowledge that his pregnant wife thinks this is sexy behavior.

 

OK, fast forward to Series 3 and your comments.  If John was subconsciously attracted to Mary because she's "dangerous," then maybe (as with Sherlock) he feels that she needs him -- seeing as how dangerous people tend to do dangerous things and may therefore occasionally need to be rescued.  (I must say, though, that I can think of a whole lot of other reasons for him to be attracted to her!)  As for the bad dreams, I don't believe we've seen him asleep since the beginning of "Study in Pink," so for all we know he's been having those nightmares now and then all along -- and just because he has them in a suburban house doesn't necessarily mean they're caused by being in a suburban house.

 

Rather than being "eager" to go find Isaac, he seems more like determined to me -- again, doing what he's uniquely qualified to do, as a doctor, soldier, and assistant detective.  Besides, both Mary and her friend Kate are begging him to do something.  What's he supposed to do -- tell them to phone the police (who would presumably arrest Isaac)?  And this is hardly the first time we've seen John rescue someone.  He starts out in "Study in Pink" rescuing Sherlock from the cabbie (well, actually from himself, but John couldn't have known that).  In "Blind Banker" he rescues Sarah from Shan's automated weapon (Sherlock tries, John succeeds).  In "Hounds" he helps save Henry from his own fears by shooting the hound (after Greg tries and fails).  So it's what John does, he helps people.  In fact, he criticizes Sherlock (in "Great Game") for thinking of the case as a puzzle to be solved rather than as an opportunity to save the victim.  And before that, he says "Can I help?  I want to help."

 

Now you're gonna have to help me with the rest of this.  What is your evidence that John is "not able to settle down" and is "becoming restless"?

[Slithytove]

The idea of Moriarty as a figment of Holmes's imagination features strongly in "The Last Sherlock Holmes Story" by the crime writer Michael Dibdin. It is the only Holmes pastiche which I have ever detested, and I believe that quite a few other readers feel the same.

 

It's possible that Jim represents Sherlock's dark side in the Mind Palace sequence but he is the one whom Sherlock ultimately seeks out when struggling to survive, and it is his words which prompt the detective to fight back when he dies on the operating table. So, are we saying that it is Sherlock's dark side which motivates him to survive against all odds? Or does Jim represent something else, something a bit more complex?

[Zain]

No right or wrong answer there One of those puzzles we'll never solve.

 

I prefer to think of all those mind scenes as coping strategies.

Mycroft is for reason and composure. He ensures with his words that Sherlock has got a guide in his state of mental disarray, and his authority may make Sherlock feel like a child, but he takes pressure from him, because he is the one who guides him to the next step.

Molly's for caring. She redirects his attention, gives him purpose to stay connected to his physical body. Because she cares about his well-being.

Redbeard's for countering solitude. When he is about to die, he seeks out those memories of a companion waiting on "the other side."

And Jim, well, I like to think of him as the reason to continue fighting. Instead of letting go. The purpose, in a way. And that is what Jim is doing. Reminding Sherlock of the reason why he needs to continue the fight. In a way, very close to your thoughts, Slithytove.

And in my little headcanon theory, John is not there, because the thought of him leads to thinking of Mary. That does not help in that particular situation.

 

But I like your interpretations just as much.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Very interesting Tumblr blog on the fake relationship with Janine - and how a person with Aspergers would really deal with her.

 

http://chitarra10.tumblr.com/post/73477791593/human-error

 

I thought it made some incredibly valid points, but whether this was so thoughtfully in the writer's mind is another thing.  Still, when interpreted like this, it is incredibly profound.

 

 

Very interesting, sfmpco -- thanks for the link!

 

By the way, if anyone else is wondering what "Abelism" might be, Google assumed that the author quoted in that blog actually meant "ableism" (bigotry by the able-minded / able-bodied against the handicapped), and I suspect that's correct.

[Caya]

The idea of Moriarty as a figment of Holmes's imagination features strongly in "The Last Sherlock Holmes Story" by the crime writer Michael Dibdin. It is the only Holmes pastiche which I have ever detested, and I believe that quite a few other readers feel the same.

 

It's possible that Jim represents Sherlock's dark side in the Mind Palace sequence but he is the one whom Sherlock ultimately seeks out when struggling to survive, and it is his words which prompt the detective to fight back when he dies on the operating table. So, are we saying that it is Sherlock's dark side which motivates him to survive against all odds? Or does Jim represent something else, something a bit more complex?

 

 

Was that the weird story where Sherlock ends up being Jack the Ripper? One of my students had to read that one once .

 

But I think what people are more often referring to re: Moriarty isn't real is The Seven Per Cent Solution by Nicholas Meyer, where Moriarty turns out to be nothing but a tutor.

 

 

eta: On second thought, spoilered that. Warning: contains plot twists for two pastiches.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Moriarty was real none the less and I think if that person caused my father to murder my mother right in front of me, I just might consider him my archenemy too.

[Arcadia]

I've held this view since well before Series 3 aired, based primarily on "Study in Pink," wherein John starts out in poor spirits -- according to Mycroft, because he misses the war, and I agree -- but not simply because of the danger (as Mycroft seems to think) but mostly because he felt needed there.  I assume that's why he became a doctor, to help people, and now the Army has told him he's no longer of any use to them, so he's taken a huge blow to his professional identity and his self-esteem (which would be enough to depress just about anybody.)  Then he shrugs off Sherlock's first two texts, but jumps to his feet after reading "Could be dangerous."  I know most people think he's thinking "Oh goodie, danger!" but it seems to me just as likely that he's concerned about Sherlock's safety, and recognizes this as an opportunity to do something useful.  I don't think that John is necessarily repelled by danger.  He's a soldier after all, so it's part of his job, and he probably even enjoys it to some extent.  But I don't see that as his primary motivation.

 

 

Makes perfect sense to me!  It's like a firefighter, or a policeman, or a paramedic  ... people who want to feel like they are doing something really beneficial for their fellow human beings, and would be bored to death by a desk job.

[T.o.b.y]

 Now you're gonna have to help me with the rest of this.  What is your evidence that John is "not able to settle down" and is "becoming restless"?

 

Well, at the beginning of the episode, we not only see him having the old war-time flashback nightmare, but it also ends with Sherlock in his head asking "do you want to see some more?", and we all know what the answer is to that.

 

John seems "off-balance" when Kate is there, irritated in a way we haven't seen him before. His interaction with Mary is not exactly harmonious ("imagine I said that without shouting", I'd like to add, for no particular reason).

 

He eagerly seizes the opportunity to go out and have an adventure, even though this particular one consists of going to a place and interacting with people any "ordinary" person would avoid.

 

Sherlock compares this behavior to that of "a junkie in need of a fix". He later says outright that John is "a man who couldn't stay in the suburbs without..." etc, all of the above.

 

A lot is made of the cycling to work, too. That is the key factor here, by the way, "a lot is made of". All these things could (and probably would) have very different meanings if I noticed them about a real person in real life. So a war veteran has a nightmare and wakes up in a bad mood, so what? So he's riding a bicycle to work - hey, great, very healthy habit, and good for the environment. But. But: In a 90 min episode where there is material enough for two, every second counts. So we won't get to see anything that we're not being given for a specific reason, and there is no time to show us the necessary consistent repetition of events and behaviors we'd need in reality to make them count as significant. If we see John having that dream in the crucial, "they will stay in your mind and set the mood" opening moments of the story, then that dream is supposed to tell us something. If a long bit of dialogue and a whole deduction sequence is spent on John's new transportation habit, then that is supposed to tell us something too (i.e. that he is restless, if you ask me), as is the pseuo-Sherockian irritation he shows with Kate. No storyteller with limited time would waste any of it for just showing John being a grouch in the mornings, unless it was for comic relief, maybe, and that scene is not a comic scene.

 

I can't help looking at stories this way. On the one hand, I love to dive in and totally believe "this is real! This is really happening!". On the other hand, I cannot (will not, I guess), switch off the part of my brain who thinks it is having a (one-sided) conversation with the author, be it of a book or a film or play or what have you. As I have recently learned, that is nowadays considered bad practice, but I can't change the habit of a life time, and hey, I was a bit lonely as a kid, so I guess I had to believe at least my books were trying to talk to me... (That is not meant to sound half as pathetic as it does).

 

So no, I don't have evidence that John is having trouble settling down and adjusting to domestic life, but I think I have pretty good indicators that the story is trying to tell us he does.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Here are a couple of articles I found on line of real life soldiers and their take on "missing war".

 

 

    http://www.funker530.com/why-soldiers-miss-war/

 

 

        http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/17/opinion/sunday/17junger.html

[Arcadia]

And that also makes sense! I don't think one rules out the other though; John wants to be saving the world, and instead he's treating thrush, so yeah, he's restless. I suspect they're just explaining why he would continue to solve crimes with Sherlock after his marriage. Volunteer firemen get married too, it doesn't stop them from going out and helping out at fires.

 

 

Okay, my internet tubes must be clogged with cats, that was in response to T.o.b.y, 1-2-3 posts up.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I suppose, in war, one might feel like one is saving the world. Fighting against an aggressive, spreading brand of terrorism. Then you get home and suddenly is narrowed down to one patient at a time.  But in John's case, on meeting Sherlock, he has a whole wide battle field again....a whole city...London. Plus he now has a fellow soldier to watch over, one Sherlock Holmes. A warrior, a crime fighter, and one who needs help regularly on a daily bases practically.

 

And no, being a soldier doesn't mean that one doesn't get married. A lot of policemen and women get married...but statically, their marriages are often rocky and end in divorce. But in canon, Dr. John Watson has no problem in marrying and still harrying around London and the English countryside in the pursuit of all types of criminals.

[Carol the Dabbler]

So no, I don't have evidence that John is having trouble settling down and adjusting to domestic life, but I think I have pretty good indicators that the story is trying to tell us he does.

 

Similar to telling us how to feel about Mary?  Yeah, I guess I understand people's irritation with that a lot better all of a sudden!

 

I've never felt obligated to look at a story the way the author tells me I should.  So I've got my own opinion of John, just as I would if he were someone I knew in real life.  I wouldn't change my opinion of him just because some mutual friends had a different opinion of him.  I'd listen to their reasons, of course, but would then continue to make up my own mind.

 

[sfmpco]

Just taking a look again at the Janine/Sherlock kiss and not sure about who kisses first on the first one, but she definitely is the kiss initiator on the 2nd one, and he just seems to be receiving.  

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Everyone is going to develop their own head canon, I think it's almost impossible not to. People may disagree but that's no reason to change what ever is going on in ones own imagination unless you feel comfortably persuaded to do so.

[sfmpco]

Okay, Cumberbatchweb just tweeted that there's going to be a screening of HLV with a question and answer with Freeman and Abbington afterwards on Oct. 5 at 1:00.  Same day as the Palace to Palace ride... crap.  No location listed yet.  Will hopefully know more soon.  Update:  in Hertford.  Will get specific address later.

[Arcadia]

And what do you want to bet that not a single person asks the questions that are plaguing us. It's always "how did you prepare for the role?" type questions.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Maybe a Forum member can make it. Hopefully more than one. Don't they sometimes take tweets as well?

[sfmpco]

Well, I will be doing the Prince's Trust Palace to Palace ride, and it's about 40 miles after to get from Windsor Castle to Herford, so that means getting a cab that will also take my bike... and I have to at the screening by 1:00.  It would be crazy but I might try to make it.

 

My big question would be... why doesn't Mary look ready to pop when seeing Sherlock off at the end.  I mean, seriously?  Did someone forget???

 

Actually, I would think of tons of other questions, but would try to avoid any questions that would seem to be baiting for clues to S4.  

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Oh yeah. With all the different takes on Mary and what happened throughout Season 3, there's enough fodder for questions to be thrown around.

[sfmpco]

I'm going to have to come up with some really juicy questions, but it's so hard because i feel like in a way I already know all the answers I seek that are contained within the given information of that episode.  So then to dig a lot deeper and even make Amanda and Martin go... whoa... that's a deep one... now there's the trick...

 

[sfmpco]

One thing that always surprises me a little in HLV is that John isn't right in the mix when the paramedics arrive at 221B.  I mean, yeah, they're paramedics, but he's an actual doctor, and yet he turned over Sherlock to their care pretty quickly.  I would have thought some of his field doctor experience would have kicked in and he would have been at least directing the situation.