Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[sherlockandjohn]

 

 

 

... I mean, who would invite Moriarty to a swimming pool, alone, and at night, without protecting themselves?

 

The same person who walks unarmed into a flat full of armed and annoyed CIA agents, talks all but one into leaving, then spray paints the last one before headbutting him into submission? Now THAT was creative!!!!

 

 

I love that scene! (It has nothing whatsoever to do with a certain somebody being more than a little butch...)

But, honestly, Sherlock was correct when he said, "Moron." He says that (or "idiot") a lot to people, I know, but here it's well deserved. Sure, the CIA agent had a gun, but I could smell that rat from a mile away. The agent must have really underestimated Sherlock's talents. Strange, since he knew enough of Sherlock's reputation to believe him capable of figuring out the code to Irene's safe.

Still, I agree, it was creative. And gorgeous. And sweet for how angry he got on Mrs. Hudson's behalf.

[jesskayding]

Although loosing count throwing someone out a window is some kind of o-path.

[Arcadia]

A revenge-opath?

[jesskayding]

[Slithytove]

One of the problems with a fictional world that seems to be reflecting the real world - i.e. 21st century London, as compared to Narnia or Middle Earth - arises when something jars with a known fact. For instance, if you know that a character gets the wrong sort of medical treatment, and it isn't part of the plot and appears to be a mistake, you can't un-know it and it can irritate you. It can even make the rest of the story seem less real.

 

On the other hand, when it is something which probably doesn't happen but could do, that is fine. For instance, the police probably don't secretly employ consulting detectives but they might. The country probably isn't ruled by civil servants with unlimited powers, who know everything and are able to make criminal charges and people disappear without trace, but it could be....

[Arcadia]

Precisely! You put it so much better than I, thank you.

[Slithytove]

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm all for alternate universes (I'd move to Middle Earth in a heartbeat if I could) but it's always nice when they obey their own internal logic.

Agreed about the internal logic. And television programs nearly always take place in an alternate universe. People can just walk into their friend's or neighbor's house. When someone is shot and falls down, they are dead -- no need to call an ambulance or even check to see whether they're still breathing. A sufficiently knowledgeable person can do ANYthing on ANY computer within two minutes.

 

Despite our quibbles about the Sherlock writers, they have -- much to my delight -- actually made two of those cliches do a U-turn: Moriarty claimed to have a universal computer key code, but then called Sherlock a doofus for believing him (yay for Jim!). John assumed the guardsman was dead just because his sergeant said he was (shame on John!) but then realized he was still breathing before it was too late (yay for John!) However, Lestrade still walks right into 221B!

 

Sherlock does need John's protection, and vice versa, so that's a reasonable assumption. Considering the dangers they put themselves through, wouldn't it be stupid not to have a gun? I mean, who would invite Moriarty to a swimming pool, alone, and at night, without protecting themselves?

Good example -- Sherlock mostly needs John to protect him from Sherlock!  (And John could often use some protection from Sherlock as well.)

 

[Arcadia]

That's one thing that's always perplexed me ... is it common in London to leave the door to your flat open most of the time? I don't mean the Baker Street door, but the one 17 steps up.

[jesskayding]

 

I'm all for alternate universes (I'd move to Middle Earth in a heartbeat if I could) but it's always nice when they obey their own internal logic.

Agreed about the internal logic. And television programs nearly always take place in an alternate universe. People can just walk into their friend's or neighbor's house. When someone is shot and falls down, they are dead -- no need to call an ambulance or even check to see whether they're still breathing. A sufficiently knowledgeable person can do ANYthing on ANY computer within two minutes.

 

Despite our quibbles about the Sherlock writers, they have -- much to my delight -- actually made two of those cliches do a U-turn: Moriarty claimed to have a universal computer key code, but then called Sherlock a doofus for believing him (yay for Jim!). John assumed the guardsman was dead just because his sergeant said he was (shame on John!) but then realized he was still breathing before it was too late (yay for John!) However, Lestrade still walks right into 221B!

Sherlock does need John's protection, and vice versa, so that's a reasonable assumption. Considering the dangers they put themselves through, wouldn't it be stupid not to have a gun? I mean, who would invite Moriarty to a swimming pool, alone, and at night, without protecting themselves?

Good example -- Sherlock mostly needs John to protect him from Sherlock! (And John could often use some protection from Sherlock as well.)

 

Although in my real life universe, I have several friends where you just walk into their house or apt. I however refuse to have an open door policy. Especially since one of those friends got robbed/burglared twice.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... television programs nearly always take place in an alternate universe. People can just walk into their friend's or neighbor's house. When someone is shot and falls down, they are dead -- no need to call an ambulance or even check to see whether they're still breathing. A sufficiently knowledgeable person can do ANYthing on ANY computer within two minutes.

 

Despite our quibbles about the Sherlock writers, they have -- much to my delight -- actually made two of those cliches do a U-turn: Moriarty claimed to have a universal computer key code, but then called Sherlock a doofus for believing him (yay for Jim!). John assumed the guardsman was dead just because his sergeant said he was (shame on John!) but then realized he was still breathing before it was too late (yay for John!) However, Lestrade still walks right into 221B!

 

I just thought of another TV-universe cliche that Sherlock did a U-turn with:

 

In a lot of TV shows, you can escape from the roof of a building by jumping into a garbage truck.  Sherlock got down off a roof with a garbage (well, laundry) truck right there in plain sight -- but that's not what he jumped onto.   They seem to have used a number of these cliches as intentional red herrings.  (Pretty clever!)

 

[jesskayding]

I'll pay more attention to clichés.

[sfmpco]

Found this interesting little text jpg... which read:

 

Moffat:  We used Mary as the shooter, to not only convey that she was in trouble with Magnussen, but also to show that, in a way, John being married was going to kill Sherlock.

 

Gatiss:  And, if you didn't get it the first time, we showed her again, shooting him in the mind palace.  She was wearing her wedding dress.

 

Can anyone identify if these are real quotes and if so, from what?

[jesskayding]

No, but I sort of like the reasoning behind it.

[Arcadia]

Found this interesting little text jpg... which read:

 

Moffat:  We used Mary as the shooter, to not only convey that she was in trouble with Magnussen, but also to show that, in a way, John being married was going to kill Sherlock.

 

Gatiss:  And, if you didn't get it the first time, we showed her again, shooting him in the mind palace.  She was wearing her wedding dress.

 

Can anyone identify if these are real quotes and if so, from what?

Can you post the jpeg? (Or provide a link to it?) Maybe someone will recognize the setting, or something.

[T.o.b.y]

Found this interesting little text jpg... which read:

 

Moffat:  We used Mary as the shooter, to not only convey that she was in trouble with Magnussen, but also to show that, in a way, John being married was going to kill Sherlock.

 

Gatiss:  And, if you didn't get it the first time, we showed her again, shooting him in the mind palace.  She was wearing her wedding dress.

 

Can anyone identify if these are real quotes and if so, from what?

 

Sorry, I can't help either, but somehow, I doubt they really said that...

 

[sfmpco]

No use posting the jpg because all it was  was text, no people to place it in context.  

[Carol the Dabbler]

Who posted it, then?  And/or where?

 

[sfmpco]

It was a jpg I found in one of the many BC fandom pages on Facebook.  if the guys actually said those words, I don't know where because I swear I think I've heard every panel discussion out there on Youtube plus pretty much all the interviews about the show.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

If people are willing to create false Twitter accounts and the like under the names of the cast and crew of Sherlock and any other show that strikes their fancy, then what would stop them from posting false interviews?

[T.o.b.y]

Because I am nuts, and think way too much about this series, I actually typed various parts of the above mentioned statements into the google search box as quotes, and I got zero hits. So if this is part of a real interview, at least it's not online somewhere - or at least not anywhere where an ignorant person like me can find it.

 

Source aside, it's something to think about. Sure, you can read the scenes that way. Personally, I thought they had Mary in her wedding dress with the gun inside the mind palace to show the "facade" versus reality. Like Mary being Mrs Watson was how Sherlock knew and trusted her, and it's a literal shock to him when he finds out how badly he "misread" her.

 

What I find interesting is that, unlike John, Sherlock seems to come to terms with the "real" Mary much faster, or rather he comes to terms with that side of her at all. The fact that she nearly killed him and he had to reconsider everything he thought he knew about her doesn't stop him at all from trying to understand her and offering her his help. Just another thing to love him for.

[T.o.b.y]

Well, isn't it interesting what shows up when you browse around the internet. What I did find was this old article from after His Last Vow aired:

 

http://www.dailydot.com/fandom/sherlock-bbc-moffat-milverton/

And this paragraph in particular kind of hit home for me:

 

 

In “His Last Vow” we learn that John’s wife Mary is a trained assassin, a fact we discover when she literally has a gun held to Magnussen’s head. But instead of shooting Magnussen and solving everyone’s problems, she decides to shoot Sherlock instead, in the hopes that this will (somehow) help her keep the truth about her past a secret from John. In the end, Sherlock has to do the deed.

This means that Mary, much like Gatiss and Moffat’s interpretation of the lady from “The Adventure of Charles Augustus Magnussen,” has effectively been written out of her own story. Supposedly a deadly assassin, she doesn’t get to confront her blackmailer, and instead is drugged by Sherlock so he and John can have a proper showdown with Magnussen. A dramatic scene that allows Sherlock to seem more badass and morally ambiguous than before, while a heavily pregnant Mary gets to wake up from her drug-induced slumber to discover that she’s now free to go back to being Mrs. Watson once again.

Moffat and Gatiss have as much of a right to reinterpret Holmes canon as any other fanfic writer. But even after four years of Sherlock, they seem unaware that fans will analyze their writing and public statements just as closely they did Arthur Conan Doyle’s. When they’re quoted as saying that a woman couldn’t have defeated the villain in one of the Holmes stories, they’re playing right into the hands of fans who believe Moffat is a misogynist who writes all of his female characters into the same corner.

 

I don't know about Mr Moffat, I don't have an opinion about him, I don't know enough for that (I'd need "more data", which I am too lazy to gather), but I do know about Mary and yup, that is exactly what bothers me. That first they puff her character up, seemingly unnecessarily, as this bad-ass professional killer, and then in the end, she doesn't get to kill anyone. She's simply reduced back to Mommy-to-be Mrs Watson. I have zero problem with Mommy-to-be Mrs Watson, don't get me wrong, I liked her fine as just that in The Sign of Three, even though I knew there'd be more to her eventually, but it just seems kind of pointless to add this crazy backstory for her, which I do not really appreciate for it's own sake, if it's neither explained nor really used for the plot.

 

Well, I shouldn't get riled up. First of all, I like His Last Vow just fine as it is. Secondly, I'm very happy with Sherlock shooting Magnussen, and thirdly, there will some day be a series 4, with Mary in it. Her story is far from over yet, so it's not fair to complain at this point. Again, need more data...

[jesskayding]

Because I am nuts, and think way too much about this series, I actually typed various parts of the above mentioned statements into the google search box as quotes, and I got zero hits. So if this is part of a real interview, at least it's not online somewhere - or at least not anywhere where an ignorant person like me can find it.

 

Source aside, it's something to think about. Sure, you can read the scenes that way. Personally, I thought they had Mary in her wedding dress with the gun inside the mind palace to show the "facade" versus reality. Like Mary being Mrs Watson was how Sherlock knew and trusted her, and it's a literal shock to him when he finds out how badly he "misread" her.

 

What I find interesting is that, unlike John, Sherlock seems to come to terms with the "real" Mary much faster, or rather he comes to terms with that side of her at all. The fact that she nearly killed him and he had to reconsider everything he thought he knew about her doesn't stop him at all from trying to understand her and offering her his help. Just another thing to love him for.

 

I think that's has to do with being able to relate.

[jesskayding]

Also the whole Mary not shooting Magnussen thing. I think that was doing her character a favor. She was running from that past life, she wants to be a good mother & wife. So it was nice she didn't shoot him.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Because I am nuts, and think way too much about this series, I actually typed various parts of the above mentioned statements into the google search box as quotes, and I got zero hits. So if this is part of a real interview, at least it's not online somewhere - or at least not anywhere where an ignorant person like me can find it.

That is brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! And I think that pretty much settles it. Thanks! 

 

I do know about Mary and yup, that is exactly what bothers me. That first they puff her character up, seemingly unnecessarily, as this bad-ass professional killer, and then in the end, she doesn't get to kill anyone. She's simply reduced back to Mommy-to-be Mrs Watson. I have zero problem with Mommy-to-be Mrs Watson, don't get me wrong, I liked her fine as just that in The Sign of Three, even though I knew there'd be more to her eventually, but it just seems kind of pointless to add this crazy backstory for her, which I do not really appreciate for it's own sake, if it's neither explained nor really used for the plot.

I had seen that article (and pretty much agreed with it) before. And yup, I think you've put your finger on a sore spot for a lot of us.  As you say, need to see what happens next, though -- they introduced Sherlock's parents for no apparent reason either, but then they turned out to be somewhat relevant a couple of episodes later (and I strongly suspect they'll be even more relevant later on).