What would you like to see in series 4?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Hear, hear! I liked Archie. He would a far better protege for Sherlock then Billy Wiggins.  Archie was cute....precocious....and he liked seeing forensic photographs. I bet he was very close to how Sherlock was when he was a child. Looks kinda like Sherlock as well. All curly topped and dark haired.

[sfmpco]

Archie was great, and he really liked Sherlock too, and I loved Sherlocks's little approving "hmmm" when Archie thought the eyes with maggots pic was cool.

[by the sea]

Yes, the whole Archie business was pretty cute ... my personal feelings about headless nuns having been previously explored.  It does introduce children into the mix ... one child, anyway ... and makes me wonder, if Mary actually survives to give birth and show her child to the world, what will Sherlock's reaction be towards said child ?  It'd be hard to think he'd be particularly interested in children ... but this would be John and Mary's baby, the offspring of two of his favourite people.  So, what would he think of her/him ?

 

Debbie

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Messy, smelly...and all to loud and obnoxious for the first five or six years?  But then it might depend on how much access the parents would dare give Uncle Sherlock to said offspring. No doubt Sherlock would be testing the child for signs of above average intelligence and interest in all things criminal?

[sfmpco]

Yes, the whole Archie business was pretty cute ... my personal feelings about headless nuns having been previously explored.  It does introduce children into the mix ... one child, anyway ... and makes me wonder, if Mary actually survives to give birth and show her child to the world, what will Sherlock's reaction be towards said child ?  It'd be hard to think he'd be particularly interested in children ... but this would be John and Mary's baby, the offspring of two of his favourite people.  So, what would he think of her/him ?

 

Debbie

 

[sfmpco]

I have more where that came from.  

 

[Zain]

I'd be rather annoyed if they put a baby on the show. Not just because it includes Mary for another season, but because it is so.... soap opera like. What's next, Sherlock taking in a stray dog, Mycroft getting diagnosed with cancer, oh, by the way, Molly is pregnant but was drunk and does not remember the father, yes, and Sherlock finds out he was actually adopted...

Boring. Tedious. Dull. (Emulating Sherlock...)

 

[by the sea]

Ha !  You think they actually ask Sherlock to babysit ??  LOL !   

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

Ha !  You think they actually ask Sherlock to babysit ??  LOL !

 

  Hhhmmmm scary thought.....ain't it.

[by the sea]

I'd be rather annoyed if they put a baby on the show. Not just because it includes Mary for another season, but because it is so.... soap opera like. What's next, Sherlock taking in a stray dog, Mycroft getting diagnosed with cancer, oh, by the way, Molly is pregnant but was drunk and does not remember the father, yes, and Sherlock finds out he was actually adopted...

Boring. Tedious. Dull. (Emulating Sherlock...)

 

Ah ... idle speculation can be fun .. or not !  Apart from possibilities for kidnapping, there's not really much babies can contribute to the drama, I suppose.

 

Debbie

[sfmpco]

Yeah, if they let Mary and the baby live, I hope they at least keep the baby thing really REALLY low key.

[by the sea]

Yeah, if they let Mary and the baby live, I hope they at least keep the baby thing really REALLY low key.

 

Yeah, I don't see Mofftiss being big on the baby thing and that bodes well for fans who dislike Mary as, under the circumstances, baby care should sideline her somewhat if not all together.  And, maybe once Sherlock is finally convinced that the child will not be called by some variation of his name, he'll exclude it from his thoughts completely.

 

Debbie

[sfmpco]

I know there are fans who have a big problem with Mary but I am not one of them.  I have liked her from the moment she said her first words.  And if Sherlock trusts her now and has forgiven her, we should follow his lead.  We were not privy to everything she confessed to John and Sherlock at the Baker Street flat, but Sherlock has forgiven her.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Or so it seems.  I've a mind that Sherlock and Mycroft know more about her then they are letting on....or...Sherlock's warmth is a big set up....but I really can't see him hugging her.....calling her "my girl"  and giving her an affectionate peck on the forehead if it was all show.  For me that would be going way overboard for him and Mary and especially John would know it. To many red flags. But that's just my take on it. People will disagree....and who knows....maybe their right.

[Caya]

And if Sherlock trusts her now and has forgiven her, we should follow his lead.

 

Pardon me, but you go ahead and do that. I won't, and I'm none too fond to be told of what I should feel about anyone, fictional or not. That's part of what I dislike so much about series 3, in fact. We fans seem to be expected to swallow this "it's all harmony and roses for Mary the unrepentant murderer" package, and I don't see any reason why I should.

[sfmpco]

Well Sherlock thinks he's going off on a MI6 suicide mission at the end of HLV.  Why in the world would he not be 100% genuine with Mary?  I think he really loves and cares about her - #1 because she's part of John's world and #2 because she is completely platonic with him and that allows the kid in him to come out.  She's like a sister he never had, maybe even more so.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

This is all very true.....but if she is the big bad baddie that many see her as.....he would not be happy at all at leaving John in her clutches. So that's why I think it is genuine. If she was a threat to John....no way would he have been all warm and cuddly to her. He fought his way back from death for John because he was in danger.....Mary would not have been at the airport if she was a true threat to John.  Baby or no baby....she would not have been around.

[sfmpco]

if she was CIA, it was her job and she did it.  Did she go rogue?  Apparently at times, but I don't trust CAM's filtering of her "bad, bad girl" info because he was so demented.  He thought the Lord Smallwood letters were "funny."  She says she will go to jail for the rest of her life if the A.G.R.A. info gets out.  Definitely don't care to see a Sherlockian "Orange is the new Black" based on Mary.  Ugh.

 

They may just let her die off with the baby.  That's what happens in the canon.

 

And I might add that Sherlock murdered in cold blood.  Probably not the first time either.  I'm sure he dispatched a few baddies while dismantling Moriarty's network in Eastern Europe.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Yup, I wouldn't trust CAM's word for anything....demented is a good word for what he was.....maybe to tame a word....but anyway. But what ever she did wasn't good....but then if some of the things John and Sherlock have done since teaming up together....one or both would end up in prison no doubt.

 

  We'll have to see how close Mofftiss sticks to canon in Season's Four and Five.

[sfmpco]

Yup, I wouldn't trust CAM's word for anything....demented is a good word for what he was.....maybe to tame a word....but anyway. But what ever she did wasn't good....but then if some of the things John and Sherlock have done since teaming up together....one or both would end up in prison no doubt.

 

  We'll have to see how close Mofftiss sticks to canon in Season's Four and Five.

 

[by the sea]

I know there are fans who have a big problem with Mary but I am not one of them.  I have liked her from the moment she said her first words.  And if Sherlock trusts her now and has forgiven her, we should follow his lead.  We were not privy to everything she confessed to John and Sherlock at the Baker Street flat, but Sherlock has forgiven her.

 

I'm a Mary fan, too, sfmpco ... so I'm with you.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion about her actions and her past ... even though we don't know for sure just what that is ... but I like her.  And, Sherlock likes her.  I don't feel that I'm following Sherlock's lead ... I just like her.  I'd hate to see her killed off, but if it's what makes the story happen, then I'm sure Mofftiss will come up with something effectively dramatic and those of us who like her can mourn and the people who don't can feel that justice was served.  It's all good ... or most of it anyway !  

 

Debbie

[Caya]

*sigh* Thank you, Debbie. Frankly, I can't for the life of me understand how anyone could possibly like that [censored] Mary after what happened in Vow, but apparently plenty of people do and more power to you, really (I'd certainly be happier with S3 if I could, so truth be told I envy you a little).

 

However, this is a topic where it really seems like we'll have to agree to disagree some day and let matters rest there. We have so little to go on that both sides can't really form an argument without lots of speculation and interpretation. Maybe the matter will be settled when series 4 comes around or maybe Moftiss will muddy the waters even more, like with The Fall . I'm not exactly holding my breath here, to be honest.

 

But please, everybody who still debates Mary (and yeah, I get drawn into this again and again, as well, so guilty as charged), please emulate Debbie's style. State what you think of her and not what everybody should think of her. We'll be losing enough people as is during the long hiatus, I'd hate for anyone of either side of the debate to leave because they felt their opinion wasn't welcome or valued.

[Arcadia]

Well, if it helps any, Caya, I think you have a sound argument for NOT liking her; I just -- do. It's not a rational decision on my part, and I'll be fine if she's proven to be a baddy, for that matter. But for the time being I like her (but not what she did!)

 

Same for Sherlock; I like him, but not what he did. And if he starts cold-bloodedly shooting someone every episode, THAT will enrage me. Once was too much, imo. But I know not everyone agrees with me there either (Moffat, for one, apparently).

 

Actually .... was the shooting cold-blooded, or hot-blooded? Anyone? I tend to think Sherlock was acting purely out of emotion, not logic -- or at least, predominantly emotion. That's why they tried to establish how much he detested CAM from the beginning, imo. So, I vote hot-blooded.

 

And to get back to the topic of the thread ... would anyone like to see the feelings/moral issues connected with the killing of CAM explored in S4? Or should it be considered resolved?

[Caya]

I'd be a lot happier if they'd not just gloss over the fact that Sherlock committed murder, but I have a feeling that Moftiss consider the matter resolved and it will not be heard from again. I think I read some interview with Moffat where he stated (badly paraphrasing here, though) they made Magnussen as loathsome as they possibly could so that everyone would be okay with his murder.

[Arcadia]

Messy, smelly...and all to loud and obnoxious for the first five or six years?...

That's almost exactly what I was going to say.  

 

I'd be rather annoyed if they put a baby on the show. Not just because it includes Mary for another season, but because it is so.... soap opera like. What's next, Sherlock taking in a stray dog, Mycroft getting diagnosed with cancer, oh, by the way, Molly is pregnant but was drunk and does not remember the father, yes, and Sherlock finds out he was actually adopted...

Boring. Tedious. Dull. (Emulating Sherlock...)

Or, it could be screamingly funny depending on how they spin it. Sherlock finally admits he's NOT a sociopath, and starts behaving like an adult, just as the world around him goes stark raving bonkers....   (Although he probably thinks the world is stark raving bonkers already!)