What would you like to see in series 4?

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think His Last Vow was highly "poetic", and it satisfies me, on its own, much more than The Reichenbach Fall. That was lovely as long as I thought it was part one of something bigger, but when it turned out there was no real part two and that part one was actually kind of marred by the bit of follow-up we did get, I was a bit dissatisfied with it.

 

What I really like better about His Last Vow is that the drama is less fake (I hope). Sherlock is genuinely in trouble and his emotions are real. And I must admit that I like the airfield farewell better than the rooftop phone call. It's the boys finally seeing eye to eye, if you know what I mean.

 

I was just thinking... If they do decide to kill Mary, I hope they'll at least do it right....

 

You know, I just remembered that there was a time when I thought "Last Vow" might be my favorite of the three. You're right, it does have a lot going for it. Maybe I need to pay more attention to my original reactions, and less to all the negative posts (including my own!).  And I fully agree with your points regarding Mary's possible demise.

 

OMG, that would've been brilliant! Sherlock starts to fall, and just then the credits roll......

I would agree with you except for one thing -- no graveyard scene!

[Arcadia]

 

Well, yes -- but it strikes me as poetic dark, as opposed to "Last Vow," which seems like the writers just decided to see how many things they could make go wrong.

 

I can't quite agree with you there, Carol. I think His Last Vow was highly "poetic", and it satisfies me, on its own, much more than The Reichenbach Fall. That was lovely as long as I thought it was part one of something bigger, but when it turned out there was no real part two and that part one was actually kind of marred by the bit of follow-up we did get, I was a bit dissatisfied with it.

 

What I really like better about His Last Vow is that the drama is less fake (I hope). Sherlock is genuinely in trouble and his emotions are real. And I must admit that I like the airfield farewell better than the rooftop phone call. It's the boys finally seeing eye to eye, if you know what I mean.

No, what do you mean? (JK! )

 

I like them both, a LOT, and partly because they are dissimilar. I'm still into the "impressionistic" theory for S3, and in that context, the more I read comments about HLV, the more the episode actually makes sense. Not practical sense, but emotional sense. Whereas TRF is a more traditional tale of sacrifice.

 

I just choose to ignore the "Sherlock was faking his feelings" bit about TRF, cuz I don't much see the point of the story otherwise. I have to believe something meaningful was at stake, or it just becomes cleverness for cleverness' sake. (Which, as several critics have pointed out, may in fact describe the whole Sherlock enterprise; but I choose to believe not.)

[Arcadia]

I would agree with you except for one thing -- no graveyard scene!

Ah, but they could've opened S3 with that. And leave us dangling for the rest of the episode, when suddenly Sherlock shows up alive and well....... make TEH the middle episode, and end with TSo3. HLV problem solved!!!

[sherlockandjohn]

Oh TRF was very dark , and it started off dark with John saying that Sherlock Holmes was dead.  Then it got light with the whole Moriarty break-in and trial sequences, but once he showed up at Sherlock's flat and they shared tea, the dark clouds began to gather again, and that ending was absolutely shattering...even though we get a final shot that he is alive.  Still, everything that John went through, the whole rooftop discussion after JM shoots himself... it's about as dark as it gets.

 

Yes, but it was dark because of the events, not the characters. At least not until the end, when Sherlock jumps.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

I just choose to ignore the "Sherlock was faking his feelings" bit about TRF, cuz I don't much see the point of the story otherwise. I have to believe something meaningful was at stake, or it just becomes cleverness for cleverness' sake. (Which, as several critics have pointed out, may in fact describe the whole Sherlock enterprise; but I choose to believe not.)

 

 

That's pretty much my approach as well. I don't need to ignore Sherlock faking his feelings, though, because he did it for a reason, however screwed up it was. We'll never know if John would have been able to keep Sherlock's secret, but I am choosing to believe that there was a risk that he couldn't have.

[Arcadia]

Yes, but it was dark because of the events, not the characters. At least not until the end, when Sherlock jumps.

That is a good distinction.

 

Does anyone else think that, among other things, Sherlock is a coming of age story? And like most coming of age stories, one of the things the protagonist has to confront is the darkness in him/herself. (Although I can't think of any, offhand, where the protagonist resorts to murder....)

 

Just a bit of musing.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I think Mofftis has hinted that yes, "Sherlock" is supposed to be a" coming of age" story. In very early interviews they mentioned the Sherlock Holmes of the early Rathbone and Christopher Lee movies. How mature, adult and polished the character is. They want to take their Sherlock there as well. But since the movies never showed the young Sherlock growing into the man we see, they were interested in taking that approach.

[Carol the Dabbler]

We'll never know if John would have been able to keep Sherlock's secret, but I am choosing to believe that there was a risk that he couldn't have.

 

I'm afraid I'll have to side with you and Sherlock on that question. Much as I love and admire John, and even though I'm fully confident that he would never, ever knowingly divulge such an important secret -- he's not an actor (he's just played by one on television).  So the question boils down to, could this lousy liar keep up a convincing pretense that he saw his best friend smashed to death on the pavement?  I wouldn't put money on it.

 

[sherlockandjohn]

John is indeed a wonderful person and friend, and while I somewhat admire Sherlock's ability to act, I more so admire John's inability to do so.

 

But getting back to the topic of what I'd like to see in series 4, I think the Woman might just turn up again. She pops up in Sherlock's mind palace in TSoT, and she apparently sends Sherlock a rose while he's in hospital in HLV - and I think I'm forgetting something else. Point is, those moments might be a prelude to bringing her back. If so, I kind of hope she and Sherlock haven't become immune to each other's charms, but that Sherlock also becomes more aware of his feelings, as well as confident of why it would never work - despite what they feel. In short, just heighten Sherlock's awareness. That would be a nice character arc for him.

 

I'm not a fan of Irene Adler, nor did I like it when Sherlock first showed interest in her, but now that it is part of the story.... well, if the writers are going to build on it, I could imagine the above scenario.

[jesskayding]

I love dark things. I SHALL SUMMON THE DARKNESS WITHIN MOFTISS SO WE SHALL ALL PERISH IN FEELS AND HELLFIRE. So I hope S4 has more gruesome stuff in store for us. Like delving deeper into why Sherlock got addicted to drugs in the first place, and what happened to the Other One, and the answer to the big ol' IS MORIARTY ALIVE???? OR DID ALL OF ENGLAND HAVE A MASS HALLUCINATION??

 

Personally, I think they should have ended TRF off with no shot of Sherlock at all. So we think he's actually dead. So that all of our hopes and dreams would have died along with him, and our reasons for living would have faded from our grasp as Sherlock descended toward the pavement at terminal velocity.

 

I am looking forward to it getting even darker like the writers have said will happen. I am ExCIted to see how deep the rabbit hole will get. They even said something will happen with John & Sherlock that we wouldn't expect.

 

Now about TRF. I'm so grateful they didn't end with him falling off the roof. Thank goodness they showed he was still alive. Also all of the twitter feedback from the fans was one of my favorite things in TEH. Made me feel that somehow one day my own feedback/theory could become a part of my favorite TV show. Awesomeness!

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

 

 

 

Personally, I think they should have ended TRF off with no shot of Sherlock at all. So we think he's actually dead. So that all of our hopes and dreams would have died along with him, and our reasons for living would have faded from our grasp as Sherlock descended toward the pavement at terminal velocity.

 

So do you think they should have shown him hit the pavement or just heading towards it??

 

 

They should've cut the little pan-zoom thing where we see Sherlock watching John cry at his gravesite, really. Would've made more people cry as well.

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

 

 

 

 

So do you think they should have shown him hit the pavement or just heading towards it??

 

OMG, that would've been brilliant! Sherlock starts to fall, and just then the credits roll......

 

 

And then, in this other world in which we have the TRF we want, the entire world is kept on that massive cliffhanger for two bloody years, mass-producing fanart and fanfic and other fan stuff theorizing on what's gonna happen next.

[Arcadia]

And then, in this other world in which we have the TRF we want, the entire world is kept on that massive cliffhanger for two bloody years, mass-producing fanart and fanfic and other fan stuff theorizing on what's gonna happen next.

And that would be different from what actually happened how?

[jesskayding]

Right! Yeah, I think we're having as much fun, MORE actually than what the writers expected. Its the return to good ole fashioned story telling. Love it!

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Even Mofftiss is quite blown away by the success of their little experiment. They thought that an audience of 3 million would be about all they could hope for and here they are with a world wide following. And yes, we are having way to much fun. But it's so gratifying when you find so many people who share your passions. Life gets way to hectic and dull and boring at the same time. This forum is an oasis. A breath of fresh air.

[jesskayding]

Copied from an article: ( so maybe they will be introducing a 3rd sibling after all & it seems like it's going to be a BoY!)

 

 

So how will the two arch enemies face each other in 'Sherlock' season 4? Executive producers Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss previously teased that they already know what to do with the supposedly-dead baddie.

 

Moffat said, "We've had what we're going to do with Moriarty in place from before the second season. Exactly what we're going to do. I remember talking it through with Andrew Scott, who plays Moriarty. Wait and see what's going to happen."

 

Mark Gatiss also joked about asking Thor's Tom Hiddleston to play the third Holmes brother in the upcoming season. Benedict Cumberbatch, Mark Gatiss and Tom Hiddleston would make an impressive trio.

[Arcadia]

Oh, I hope. They would make an impressive trio. Although I'm not sure there would be much room for John in that crowd.......

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

If the third sibling is another baddie then John would probably be very much in the mix as Sherlock's partner in crime.

[Arcadia]

Yeah, good point! Okay then! I still hope to see those 3 in action!

[sherlockandjohn]

There should be more John Watson in the next series. More of a real presence of the strong man we saw in episodes like The Great Game and The Reichenbach Fall (and of course others as well). He is falling into Sherlock's shadow a bit - not that he isn't important, because it is well and truly established how important he is to Sherlock - but Sherlock's character development is taking over a tad too much. So - more character development for John. Hm, I think we've already said so before... Anyway, it bears repeating!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Damn straight!

 

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

Maybe the Other One won't even be a good guy or a baddie, y'know? Like, one of those neutral characters that don't actively fight for or against the bad guys, but are very important all the same.

[Carol the Dabbler]

A catalyst?

 

[sherlockandjohn]

Hmm, neither good nor bad, doesn't fight for or against the bad guys... sounds a bit like Mycroft, except he does, to some degree, fight on the good side. Yes, I could imagine someone like that being related to Sherlock and Mycroft.

[jesskayding]

There should be more John Watson in the next series. More of a real presence of the strong man we saw in episodes like The Great Game and The Reichenbach Fall (and of course others as well). He is falling into Sherlock's shadow a bit - not that he isn't important, because it is well and truly established how important he is to Sherlock - but Sherlock's character development is taking over a tad too much. So - more character development for John. Hm, I think we've already said so before... Anyway, it bears repeating!

 

I'm 1/2 way with you SJ. The show is called Sherlock, so it mostly is about him. I do feel since Mary's on the scene, they do play John as a married man keeping him more in the background, other than that just wouldn't make any sense. Unless somehow Mary & the baby are no longer attached to John.