"BBC Sherlock" articles & other miscellany

[bedelia1984]

Another agreement that he was killed too soon.

 

Of course, they also didn't have the courage of their convictions to keep him dead (he's still popping up in TFP), so it is quite conspicuous that they miss him.

 

I think one issue is that the energy and fun that Scott brought to the character just works so well in the medium of television. It's such a big performance, and it is funny, and in a way it's like he walked on from some other show (kids tv?). The rest of the cast are wonderful but there is a more sombre quality to the show when he isn't in it- I think it's that likeable villain thing where you know you shouldn't be enjoying his presence but you are- that brings another level to the show, and then when he's gone things feel that bit flatter.

 

They have never found another villain to equal him, sadly, and I think there is something about seeing him and Sherlock onscreen together that makes it feel like they are getting to the heart of what the show truly is about- that moment when you see Sherlock with a worthy opponent, and you're also seeing how much of Sherlock just enjoys the game too, it's a bit different from his 'hero' side and arguably more compelling. They've gone off in some tangents since they lost Moriarty too- Eurus, Mary's story... and struggled to make the audience care as much as they did when the show was it its peak.

[Arcadia]

Absolutely agree.

 

Ah well. Having said all that, I hope they leave him alone from now on; what they did with him in TFP was absolutely embarassing. As you say, I never found him a particularly scary villain, more of a fun one. If he was supposed to ad to the terror quotient in TFP ... well, he didn't. At any rate, I think they've moved the show to a place where he's not needed any more.

[gerry]

I agree with that but I've also seen the opposite effect on another show I watched called The Mentalist where they milked the Red John villian so much for so long that you stopped caring how it was going to be resolved. It must be difficult to find the right balance and to know when to pull the plug on the character.

[Arcadia]

Yeah, did they ever resolve the Red John story? I watched the show a lot but never followed it faithfully, I don't even remember if there was an ending or if it just quietly faded away.

[gerry]

Yes

Sheriff McAllister ended up being RJ. Jane murdered him to get his revenge. It was a less than compelling resolution after how RJ was built up but I'm not sure it could have been avoided. In the end Jane ended up marrying Lisbon in the series finale.

 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Arcadia
Added spoiler box in case anyone hasn't seen the end of The Mentalist but plans to someday. :p

[Arcadia]

WHAT!!?!!!???!?

I didn't know he and Lisbon were even interested in each other! Wow... apparently I stopped watching sooner than I thought. So how did Jane get away with murder? The same way Sherlock did?  

 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Arcadia
Added spoiler box because I have a big stupid mouth and blurted out a spoiler. About The Mentalist, but hey. :p

[J.P.]

 

 

Ahem… may I suggest a spoiler box? I kind of watch the series but didn't know about who Red John was.

Okay, it's too late. :P

 

 

What I really hate is that TV seems to broadcast the episodes at random. I've seen some eps for like 3 times already. The same with House.

 

And now: if you ever happen to travel to Wales: Barafundle Bay and Sherrinford are actually like 10 miles away.

 

 

https://www.google.de/maps/place/St+Catherine's+Island+%26+Fort/@51.6419149,-4.8046023,7446m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x0:0xe9829d1cc4e8c114!2sSt+Catherine's+Island+%26+Fort!8m2!3d51.6705857!4d-4.6921062!3m4!1s0x0:0xe9829d1cc4e8c114!8m2!3d51.6705857!4d-4.6921062

 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Arcadia
Added spoiler box sort of for the same reason as above and also just to give JP a hard time. :d

[J.P.]

Now it seems GoogleMaps started to explore the world with bike and on foot. Have a walk at the Barafundle Bay!

https://www.google.de/maps/@51.6178431,-4.904033,3a,90y,292.5h,69.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0h-WEFY5dfUw2aFdUrPMNg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

… okay, noticed that I hijacked the thread. Okay, I'm gone now.

[gerry]

I'm very sorry about discussing The Mentalist JP and ruining anything for you! It just didn't even dawn on me that anyone else from other countries would be watching it now since it's pretty old here in the states. The series finale aired in early 2015.

 

But to answer Arcadia's questions.....

WHAT!!?!!!???!?

I didn't know he and Lisbon were even interested in each other! Wow... apparently I stopped watching sooner than I thought. So how did Jane get away with murder? The same way Sherlock did?

 

Similar to Sherlock. In midseason 6, they finally revealed RJ was McAllister, then Jane set it up so that he could murder RJ on his own terms. The FBI disbanded the CBI based on corruption and how Jane was able to murder McAllister. Jane fled to another country to go on the run since he would have been on trial for murder. Basically the FBI wanted to work with Jane, so Jane negotiated an immunity deal and that Lisbon be brought in as an agent to work on his team. Cho was already working at the FBI, it was an office in Texas I believe.

 

They didn't really begin teasing anything between Jane and Lisbon until after they began working together at the FBI. Basically, they used Jane living on the island to bring him closure and to be able to grieve for his family properly. AFter that he was lighter and more open to that part of his life. The last season was a shortened 13 episodes and it wasn't until I think it was the last 2 episodes did anything actually happen between them. It ended up being a happy ending for Jane which I liked.

 

As far as the murdering portion, Mentalist didn't treat it as casually as Sherlock. Jane wasn't shown as giddy about it, more like it was necessary for him, and it didn't immediately bring him any peace. No one treated it like it was ok either. Lisbon actually tried to talk him out of it.

 

[Artemis]

I agree with that but I've also seen the opposite effect on another show I watched called The Mentalist where they milked the Red John villian so much for so long that you stopped caring how it was going to be resolved. It must be difficult to find the right balance and to know when to pull the plug on the character.

 

Ha, I was thinking of using "The Mentalist" as an example when I wrote my post, but I didn't know if there were any other watchers of the show here.

 

I might be in the minority, but I never got tired of the Red John storyline.  For me, Red John was almost as integral to the show as Jane.  When the hunt for Red John was done, so was the show.  I don't think they should have killed him off earlier in the series, but if people were getting sick of him, maybe they should have just made the entire series shorter.

 

His death and reveal were really lame though, I thought.  They created a problem by building him up so much, but they still could have ended him soooo much better.

 

 

[Arcadia]

Thanks Gerry, I definitely missed more of that show than I realized. Not sure why, I always liked it.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Back, if I may, to "did they kill off Moriarty too soon?" --

 

I suspect they felt a bit compelled not to keep him around indefinitely.  After all, Conan Doyle introduced him in the same story in which he died -- and then gave him a cameo in a later story -- and that's it.  His entire reason for being appears to have been killing off Sherlock Holmes.

 

Certain other adaptations seem to have appointed Moriarty as the perpetual villain, and that may be a mistake.  In fact, having him on the radar in six episodes of Sherlock may have been a bit much, especially since several of those felt a bit obligatory (e.g., the interrogation scene which had nothing at all to do with Hounds).  But having him actually IN three episodes feels about right, so I'm happy with that.

 

They kept talking about how many other wonderful villains were in the ACD stories, and now they've used a couple more.  I'd like to see them continue introducing new villains or antagonists, some adapted from canon and some originals.  Jeff the Cabbie is probably my favorite non-Moriarty villain to date.  I'd like to see more villains-of-the-week with fresh takes like that.

[Artemis]

I agree.  I definitely wouldn't want Moriarty involved in everything.  I just don't want him to be dead, lol.  I'd like them to cross paths once in a while.  To get in each other's way from time to time.

 

I guess what I feel about it is that he was presented in ACD canon as Sherlock's match.  And in my head, if you remove his match, you remove his greatest challenge and threat.  The other villains offer him challenges too of course, of different varieties; but it feels like there's ultimately no contest in comparison, because only Moriarty is Sherlock's true equal.

 

Using games as an analogy (because I'm not quite sure how else to explain it), trying to beat Moriarty is like playing at the highest level of difficulty.  Now you've beaten the level and he's dead.  What's left?  You can play again at lower levels to beat other villains, and some might even seem as difficult as Moriarty was.  But you already conquered the highest level, so you know the game has no potential to be harder than that.  It's almost anticlimactic, in a way.

 

We know that Sherlock will overcome every challenge put before him in the end.  That's just the nature of story-telling.  But I'd still feel more satisfied with Moriarty around as that elusive, not-quite-catchable villain, if only for the anticipation that Sherlock could potentially continue to meet his match.  Again, it's more the idea or possibility that I miss; and maybe specifically my idea of what Moriarty represents, that I wish had not been eliminated from the show.

 

 

[gerry]

His death and reveal were really lame though, I thought. They created a problem by building him up so much, but they still could have ended him soooo much better.

Agreed. I've wondered if it would have been different if the audience knew who RJ was but not Jane/CBI. Like if the audience saw him doing all the crimes/brainwashing so that the audience's expectation wouldn't have been heightened to a ridiculous level. The way they did it, the audience would never be able to not be disappointed by the reveal.

 

Back to Moriarty. I'm like Artemis in that it took awhile for me to get used to AS' portrayal because it's full of stranger flair. Over time, that could easily turn more to OTT caricature than a brilliant rival. What I loved about TRF was that he was more toned down and it was a true intellectual battle. The meeting at 221 Baker Street and on the roof were awesome. Him in TFP, HLV and TGG were more silly than scary so I wonder if he were alive more and it dragged out more, if it would have been satisfying.

[Artemis]

What I loved about TRF was that he was more toned down and it was a true intellectual battle. The meeting at 221 Baker Street and on the roof were awesome.

Ditto!

 

Him in TFP, HLV and TGG were more silly than scary so I wonder if he were alive more and it dragged out more, if it would have been satisfying.

Unfortunately we'll never know now. Maybe if he'd been given a real role and something actually intelligent/villainous to do instead of recording weird sound effects for Eurus' psycholab, it would have been better. As it was, they would have been better off leaving him out of seasons 3 and 4 altogether, in my opinion.

[gerry]

Exactly and if they keep trying to find dumb things like that for Moriarty to do just to be seen in future series, it would ruin the memory of what made him a great rival to Sherlock to begin with.

[Artemis]

Right. If they were ever to write him into a future series, it should be natural and not forced. It should never be, "How can we squeeze Moriarty into this scenario."

[Carol the Dabbler]

I liked him in TAB.  He was kind of silly, but that was appropriate for the scene where Sherlock is starting to wake up, and real life is mixing in with his dreamworld.  (Not so sure about the church scene, though.)

[Arcadia]

You mean where he shows up in the wedding dress? I rather liked that, it was appropriately creepy.

[J.P.]

https://www.dollios.com/doctorstrange

They make a doll. It's 80cm tall. It has this face. Does anyone needs a kidney?

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Now *that* is creepy!

 

Lessee, 80 cm = umm, 32 inches or so. Make that *really* creepy!

[J.P.]

I have some of similar specimen already and they are not spooky at all. Of course the face have to be painted and hair added and so on… Then it needs clothes (even it I think the company will provide the painting and Dr. Strange costume for extra fee)

 

ETA: or you can just go for the shaving scene…

[Arcadia]

Have we had these on here before? Some of it sounds familiar and yet some does not, so I'm posting them, just in case. Podcasts from PBS about Season 4, with:
 
Martin Freeman
 
Loo Brealey
 
Amanda Abbington

[Arcadia]

Also, a short survey you can take ... about being in the Sherlock fandom: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScLanxcwLJIWbxV0cFfKuf1JfbyrOi0mkDWNcDU3oPaMFkLbQ/viewform

[Arcadia]

Looks like some a/v files are dribbling out of the recent Comic Con in London.

 

Audio - lousy quality but seems to be the full q&a with Benedict: http://lichtblickpink.tumblr.com/post/163731051351/audio-recording-of-the-lfcc-panel-with-benedict 

Not Sherlock specific, but definitely mentioned.

 

Video - Assume this is from the same q&a: who would Sherlock love, and a great question about how much influence BC as an actor has on the character. Answer; not much (he says. I suspect it's more than he realizes.)