"BBC Sherlock" articles & other miscellany

[besleybean]

Huh?

As far as I understood, it is brand new.

It's the boys recording for The Game is Now event...

I am still working on getting tickets for it.

[Arcadia]

Oh, by "new" I was referring to their remarks in the tumblr q&a … they don't say much that we don't know already. It took place fairly recently, but the information isn't new. But it's still fun.

Good luck getting the tickets!

[besleybean]

Thanks, it' a bit of a first world problem to be honest!

I usually  go to London twice a year and this would entail a third trip!

I may also be trying to tie it in with visiting my Italian family.

So extra trips to both Italy and London...it's a hard life, but I guess I may just have to suffer for my art!

[Carol the Dabbler]

17 hours ago, Arcadia said:

And … I don't think we've seen this before (???) A tumblr Q&A that was done with Mark & Steven about the same time (??) https://221b-investigates.tumblr.com/post/175481476937/tumblr-sherlocks-very-own-mark-gatiss-and-steven Not much new but kind of fun.

As you say, nothing earth-shattering -- but funny and even a bit informative if you read between the lines, so do read it.  If your phone gives you only a brief sample before urging you to download the app, then (at least if you're on an Android), just click on the three vertical dots at the upper right of the browser page and then click in the "Desktop Site" box in the drop-down menu.  You'll be magically transported to the whole thing.  (And thank you once more, Caya, for that tip!)

[J.P.]

Have we had this one?

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/sherlock-series-3-secrets/

[Arcadia]

Yep. But I don't mind revisiting.

ETA …. Annnnnnnd, I see this is one place, at least, where I got the idea that they were planning on S4 AND S5.  THEY SAY IT, right there in that interview. Arrrrggghhhhh! *huff huff huff*

[Carol the Dabbler]

There, there.  Take a deep breath....

[besleybean]

Yep, that's what I had always understood...

originally S4 & S5 were commissioned together, as S2 & 3 had been.

But something happened...everyone was too busy.

So I honestly think they stuck two episodes together, threw the kitchen sink at it and left it as a stand alone...

But the guys are right: doesn't really matter if they don't return to the show for 20 years.

[Carol the Dabbler]

1 hour ago, besleybean said:

Yep, that's what I had always understood...

originally S4 & S5 were commissioned together, as S2 & 3 had been.

But something happened...everyone was too busy.

It was my understanding that yes, Moftiss had sketched out the basic ideas for S4 and S5 during the filming of S3, but I don't don't recall ever hearing that the BBC had commissioned both together.  And/or perhaps once Moftiss started fleshing out the plots, they decided it'd work better as four episodes rather than six.

Also, Moftiss likes to say that the problem is the busy schedules of BC and MF, but I am skeptical.  I suspect there's also a good bit of Moftiss simply getting bored doing any one thing for too long at a stretch.  Which also implies they're likely to be back -- eventually, when they're struck by some irresistible new ideas.

[Arcadia]

What makes me tear my hair, though, is why they don't just come out and say "yeah, once we started writing it, we realized we didn't have enough story for two seasons", or whatever the real reason is, instead of acting as if a S5 never entered their heads. So I start imagining what the real reason could be, and I don't like any of my own answers, and I'd rather have theirs so I could be mad at them instead of myself. 😛 Yeah, yeah, I know, I just gotta grow up and deal with it. But like someone else I could mention, I just can't resist pulling at loose threads ……..

I really should have gotten into the Babylon 5 fandom instead. That story had a beginning, middle and end, and by god they stuck with it even though it meant cancelling the show while it was still successful. No open endings there, no sirreebob! Well, there was the mention of the child, and we still don't know where Lennier disappeared to … okay, okay, never mind....

[Carol the Dabbler]

34 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

What makes me tear my hair, though, is why they don't just come out and say "yeah, once we started writing it, we realized we didn't have enough story for two seasons", or whatever the real reason is, instead of acting as if a S5 never entered their heads.

Maybe no one ever asked them?  (... at least not in an interview or Q&A....)  I don't think I've ever heard them deny having sketched it out.

[Arcadia]

Oi. I'd accept that challenge, except at the moment I don't know where to look.   Maybe it will come to me. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Keep us posted!  

 

[Arcadia]

So far all I've found is another interview where they said they sketched it out. http://collider.com/sherlock-season-4-5steven-moffat-sue-vertue-interview/

That's another thing … there's been a dearth of post S4 interviews......

[Carol the Dabbler]

2 hours ago, Arcadia said:

... there's been a dearth of post S4 interviews......

Well of course!  Moftiss are off on a different spree at the moment.

[Arcadia]

Hmph. Not the way I’d have done it.  😞

[besleybean]

Sorry, think I see things slightly differently.

It was said after S1 that never again would they only  work one episode at a time, so they they weren't left with another impossible cliffhanger to deal with.

They specifically said 2&3 had been 'granted together' , I will use that term as the word 'commissioned' seems to be causing problems.

Definitely in at least one interview one of them said that they had up to S 5 mapped out in their minds.

There was never any mention of TFP being it(for the forseeable future) virtually until it aired, though they obviously knew at least at some point through filming  S4!

It struck me as a very sudden decision and they deliberately tried to hide it, by witholding the name of our latest episode...though smart arses like me worked out what the name was and began to worry as to why not just say...if it wasn't going to be the end.

I honestly think the diehard fans went into mourning.  It really was like a shock death of a beloved one.  I don't think Mark and Steven realised that we would grieve.

But this wouldn't have been half so bad if yes they had just been upfront and honest at the start and said straight out: we love it, we defo want to come back to it...but we just can't go on with this never knowing if our leads are going to be available and certainly everyone is far too busy at the moment.

I do not think that in ANY way, EITHER Mark or Steven were bored with Sherlock.

The decision was forced upon them and they have simply optimised the opportunity.

[Arcadia]

3 hours ago, besleybean said:

 

There was never any mention of TFP being it(for the forseeable future) virtually until it aired, though they obviously knew at least at some point through filming  S4!

It struck me as a very sudden decision and they deliberately tried to hide it, by witholding the name of our latest episode...though smart arses like me worked out what the name was and began to worry as to why not just say...if it wasn't going to be the end.

I honestly think the diehard fans went into mourning.  It really was like a shock death of a beloved one.  I don't think Mark and Steven realised that we would grieve.

But this wouldn't have been half so bad if yes they had just been upfront and honest at the start and said straight out: we love it, we defo want to come back to it...but we just can't go on with this never knowing if our leads are going to be available and certainly everyone is far too busy at the moment.

 

Yep, that's the part that bothers me … the suddenness. The sense that "something" changed, with the result that we got less of the show than we'd be told there would be. That, and the sense I have that S4 could have been better if they'd stuck to their original outline, whatever it was. As it is, it feels so compressed to me.

It's none of my business what "changed", of course. But like I said before, I see a loose thread and I can't help but worry at it. Guess I should take T6T as a cautionary tale and go mind my own business, eh?

On the other hand.....!!!! This is a Sherlock forum and it's one of the few mysteries we have left to discuss, so....  Unless y'all want to go back to wrestling over the REAL Reichenbach explanation...…. 😛

 

[Hikari]

8 hours ago, besleybean said:

I do not think that in ANY way, EITHER Mark or Steven were bored with Sherlock.

The decision was forced upon them and they have simply optimised the opportunity.

I have come to realize that the British television networks seem to have more arbitrary standards for cancelling programs than American networks do.  The Brit TV landscape is littered with the corpses of beloved shows that were pulled suddenly and without notice to cast or public, often with half a series filmed, despite continuing popularity in the ratings.  I could point to Inspector Lynley Mysteries as just one example.  Cast and crew reported for work one day in the middle of filming S6 and were informed that they were done.  The truncated S6  aired with the half-allotment of episodes they had been able to finish.  

American networks are a lot  more transparent/simplistic in their reasoning . . . if the show's still getting acceptable ratings, they will flog that horse until it's not only dead, but jerky.  (Big Bang Theory or Two and a Half Men, for two wretched examples from CBS).  Whatever the rationale for ending BBC Sherlock, ratings would not have been the issue. BB, you are a bit more generous to Mofftiss than I, because I do believe they had gotten Bored with their little project as early as the end of TRF.  The availability issues with Mssrs. FreeBatch, while real, also gave the producers a handy excuse to forgo doing any more.  The writing post-Reichenbach was pretty lackluster, though S3 had some good stuff in it.  

8 hours ago, besleybean said:

It struck me as a very sudden decision and they deliberately tried to hide it, by witholding the name of our latest episode...though smart arses like me worked out what the name was and began to worry as to why not just say...if it wasn't going to be the end.

I honestly think the diehard fans went into mourning.  It really was like a shock death of a beloved one.  I don't think Mark and Steven realised that we would grieve.

But this wouldn't have been half so bad if yes they had just been upfront and honest at the start and said straight out: we love it, we defo want to come back to it...but we just can't go on with this never knowing if our leads are going to be available and certainly everyone is far too busy at the moment.

Mssrs. Mofftiss claim to be dedicated Sherlockians (a claim I grew increasingly to doubt in my own mind based on their narrative decisions and treatment of their characters) . . it cannot be completely obscure to them that they have essentially pulled a Conan Doyle and killed off Sherlock Holmes.  We, the fandom, are the 21st century equivalent of those Victorian Londoners c. 1891 that went around wearing black mourning bands.  So I feel that it is right and proper that these gentlemen experience the brunt of consequences--fan displeasure--for their actions.  If they want to pull a Conan Doyle, well, then . . Conan Doyle was a universally loathed man after his Final Problem came out.  Fair's fair.  Did Mofftiss expect us to LOVE them after this?

[Carol the Dabbler]

I half agree with you, Hikari, but to be fair, they have never said this is the end (and neither have the BBC).  In fact they've said this is the beginning of the classic Holmes era in their universe.

Sounds to me like they're a bit burnt out on Sherlock and would like to go play with something else for a while.  Probably best to let them -- God knows what sort of contorted plots they'd come up with if forced to continue now! -- and wait for them to feel like playing Sherlock again.

[Hikari]

1 hour ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I half agree with you, Hikari, but to be fair, they have never said this is the end (and neither have the BBC).  In fact they've said this is the beginning of the classic Holmes era in their universe.

Sounds to me like they're a bit burnt out on Sherlock and would like to go play with something else for a while.  Probably best to let them -- God knows what sort of contorted plots they'd come up with if forced to continue now! -- and wait for them to feel like playing Sherlock again.

I'd be thrilled to see FreeBatch tackle some 'classic Holmes era in their universe'--it would make for a refreshing change from the last couple of seasons.  But let's just say I will believe it when I see it.  I used to live by faith in Mofftiss and now I rely on the evidence of  my own two eyes. 

[besleybean]

Can't wait to see the boys at 60...well, if I am alive to do so!

I remain  a fan of the whole project and all of the people in it.

Personally I wouldn't use the term 'freebatch', as it has other rather unpleasant associations.

I'm not really into conspiracy theories and I honestly can't be bothered why the sudden and long break in Sherlock episodes...mainly it is simply cos Mark and Steven got the opportunity for their Dracula project.

Anyhow, only other thing I was going to add:

1.  Merlin: devotees went into mourning at the end of this show and at the time I didn't have much sympathy!  Having said that, they did get about 40+episodes, was it?  It really had reached its natural conclusion.

2.  Atlantis: slightly more irritating one.  Only 2 series and they pulled it just as it was actually getting interesting!  Plus the only show I know that ends on a literal cliffhanger! However as with Merlin, they were quite transparent about it all...there weren't the viewer figures and there had been many complaints, S2 was defo better.

 

[J.P.]

IMO an episodic series can go forever as long as the makers have ideas. Look at Dr Who.

But as soon as there is a story arch, it should be written in whole and kept this way. That's why I'm a bit worried about GoT.

[besleybean]

i have always been happy with Mark and Steven's work on Sherlock...

But there is no doubt S 4 was changed to match the need for a convenient resting point.

But it worked for me and remains my favourite episode.

[Carol the Dabbler]

11 hours ago, besleybean said:

Personally I wouldn't use the term 'freebatch', as it has other rather unpleasant associations.

As you say, it already has a very specific established meaning, basically the real-life counterpart of Johnlock.  I assume the rationale is either "to have such great on-screen chemistry, they must be lovers off-screen" or "they're so cute together that I'm rooting for them to get together for real."