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billychaz

Irene Adler

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Hello Billychaz, I realized we didn't have a dedicated Irene Adler thread, so I took your thread and moved it here. Sorry 'bout that ;).

 

As for your question, it's a tough one. Personally, I'd think they both have quite a bit of a crush on each other but I wouldn't call it love.

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Hello,

 I think they have an attraction to each other for the reason that they are both intelligent and Irene can deduce fairly well. I would say they  like the idea of each other more than I would call it love. Thanks,

~joan

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Love?  No.  Attraction?  Yes.  Some mutual admiration and respect?  Sure.  Trust?  Newp.

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There is some trust. It falls under the category of "I trust you to do whatever it takes for self preservation if you so choose to save your life", "I trust you to try to ask me to dinner to which I won't likely respond", or "we'll have discussions on what is sexy while I try to keep an eye out for you to not drug me again".

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There is some trust. It falls under the category of "I trust you to do whatever it takes for self preservation if you so choose to save your life", "I trust you to try to ask me to dinner to which I won't likely respond", or "we'll have discussions on what is sexy while I try to keep an eye out for you to not drug me again".

 

Well, I guess that is one way to look at trust.  lol

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I don't think it's love.  I think it could be love, one day, under just the right circumstances, but those circumstances aren't going to happen for those two.  So I don't think things will ever progress to love.

 

There's a saying, I guess a little sexist in its original form: "Always tell a pretty girl she's smart and always tell a smart girl she's pretty."  In some ways, that's the Sherlock/Irene relationship, in that they allow each person to explore rarely-used sides of themselves, and that's pleasant but scary for both.  

 

Sherlock gets to explore his sexual side because of Irene.  I think he has one, and I think he's used it in some form, but he's mostly been celibate.  Irene is the one who can physically move him to the point that he starts to see that it's pleasant to respond sexually to someone, regardless of if/when that's actually consummated.

 

Irene gets to explore her intelligence.  I think she's smart, or she wouldn't be able to run a business of the sort she runs -- one that skirts legality, one that requires acting ability, and one that requires an intense knowledge of human psychology and how to use it.  But Sherlock's the one who gets her to see that she can use her brain in ways that don't end in manipulation.  I think she finds that pleasant too.

 

I think, if there were a circumstance in which neither of them could get dragged away by the lives they have constructed for themselves, they could find a kind of love.  I think I've said before that I always think they could love in a way that I've heard called "getting on like a house afire."  (You know -- a lot of things get destroyed, but it's hot and it's out of control and it's a lot of raw power in one place.)  Loves like that are intense and memorable.  They usually don't last, but you sure don't forget them.

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Hi there Billychaz! I'm afraid I have to agree with all of the above ... attraction, not love. What do YOU think?

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I want to know if Sherlock loves Irene.

 

I think they have a kind of love/appreciation for each other, but I don't think it's a romantic love.  Clearly, however, he was very disturbed when he thought she was dead, and he wasn't going to let that happen again, so he saved her at the end.

 

We know he keeps a mental image of her in his mind palace - and it's the naked image.  So he does enjoy revisiting that image at times.  He was not put off at all by her body and in fact deduced immediately her measurements.

 

But after she did play dead, there was no more trusting her or her intentions.  I think, in a way, she was far more attracted to the challenge of him than he was to her.

 

Attraction itself is often flattering and attractive, however, and I think Sherlock fell a bit under that spell... but only a bit.  He exposed her in the end...she exposed herself literally to him at first, and then he exposed her at the end when he deduced her passcode.  

 

I'm not entirely certain there is a definitive answer.  

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Whatever it was - don't forget that Irene was actually gay. :)

But she used her usual strategy on Sherlock which was sexual seduction. 

 

BTW, since our discussion about the SMS she send at Christmas, I just cannot see the "grieving Sherlock" version anymore. It seldom happens that I change my perception so drastically. Usually I can live with ambiguity quite well, but not in this case. Jeeez, hope I can ask the guys in person. Should start making a list. Or should it be a file? 

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J.P.'s questions to ask:

 

essay-paper+woman+buried.gif

 

 

I still really waffle back and forth on grieving Sherlock.  It's still the first thing I see, because I think that is the normal way to interpret behavior like that.  But then so much of that is stuff Sherlock tends to do anyhow, because he's a bit not normal (writing sad music, doesn't eat, barely talks).  I guess in the end we'll never 100% know what was going on in his funny old head, so it's left up to individual interpretation about what he did or did not feel about Ms. Adler.

 

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Oh gosh, don't give me ideas! I just have a mental picture of carrying a box full of notes into the round table discussion... mosking.gif

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Sherlock gets to explore his sexual side because of Irene.  I think he has one, and I think he's used it in some form, but he's mostly been celibate.  Irene is the one who can physically move him to the point that he starts to see that it's pleasant to respond sexually to someone, regardless of if/when that's actually consummated.

 

Irene gets to explore her intelligence.  I think she's smart, or she wouldn't be able to run a business of the sort she runs -- one that skirts legality, one that requires acting ability, and one that requires an intense knowledge of human psychology and how to use it.  But Sherlock's the one who gets her to see that she can use her brain in ways that don't end in manipulation.  I think she finds that pleasant too.

 

I think, if there were a circumstance in which neither of them could get dragged away by the lives they have constructed for themselves, they could find a kind of love.  I think I've said before that I always think they could love in a way that I've heard called "getting on like a house afire."  (You know -- a lot of things get destroyed, but it's hot and it's out of control and it's a lot of raw power in one place.)  Loves like that are intense and memorable.  They usually don't last, but you sure don't forget them.

 

There, you've said it so well that I can only add "I agree".

 

Apropos of nothing, I really like this version of Irene Adler. I never relished her much in the original, I just sort of rolled my eyes that Doyle couldn't just leave the subject alone, that every single character needs a love affair for god's sake, and I never thought I'd enjoy any adaptation of that. I considered skipping A Scandal in Belgravia when it came out. Now I am so glad I didn't. For me, the subject was handled admirably. And the casting - the casting is perfect. I cannot imagine any other Irene now. I don't want to, either.

 

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Oh gosh, don't give me ideas! I just have a mental picture of carrying a box full of notes into the round table discussion... mosking.gif

 

You and 50 other people! :D

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Fascination & grudging admiration in Sherlock's part, the milder version on Irene's mixed with a touch of Stockholm Syndrome.

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Apropos of nothing, I really like this version of Irene Adler. I never relished her much in the original, I just sort of rolled my eyes that Doyle couldn't just leave the subject alone, that every single character needs a love affair for god's sake, and I never thought I'd enjoy any adaptation of that. I considered skipping A Scandal in Belgravia when it came out. Now I am so glad I didn't. For me, the subject was handled admirably. And the casting - the casting is perfect. I cannot imagine any other Irene now. I don't want to, either.

 

 

 

This is my favorite Irene Adler of all the versions I've seen, including the ACD canon.  And that's a little bit meta, because one of the things I love about this Irene is that I think she so perfectly updates the canon Irene.  I feel like this is the character Conan Doyle would have written today, and this is the kind of woman who gets Sherlock's/Holmes's attention:  someone a little disreputable, a little shocking, and very certain of herself.  

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For me....seriously i think Sherlock in love with Irene and Irene to Sherlock

i watch "A scandal in Belgravia" again and again and again

the way Sherlock look at Irene and the way he feel annoyed by her is a proof that it was love

at least that what i think of  :D  :D

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I think we have discussed the point somewhere in another thread that he is definitely attracted to her because she calls his original bluff, ACD appropriately, so he reacts to her intelligence, because, in true Holmes self-centredness, he has very little time for the way a woman's mind operates, but she is above the norm, in his eyes: "moderately clever, stop boring me and think".

As for saving her life, I am still not entirely sure that he did not do it simply to fool Mycroft for once.

However, Gayle Hunnicutt made a stunning Irene Adler in the JB version, and she has the same femme fatale attraction ad Ms. Pulver, seen as she also played the deadly Lady Beltham in the Fantomas series.

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In A Scandal In Belgravia

The final scene show Sherlock play his violin, he is in a sad mood

why? if you ask me, the answer because he miss Irene, i don't think if you just attract or just respect someone, you will miss her / him the way Sherlock miss Irene

of course you can or will miss someone even thought you not love them, but really miss them the way Sherlock miss Irene? i don't think so

(Swear to god, i miss Irene, because i really falling in love with her, hopefully she will return in season 4, really return not just some imagination in Sherlock mind)

Speaking of imagination in Sherlock mind....that also the proof that Sherlock love Irene

 

p.s / Sorry about my English, i know it suck  :( I will try my best to improve  :D

 

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In A Scandal In Belgravia

The final scene show Sherlock play his violin, he is in a sad mood

why? if you ask me, the answer because he miss Irene, i don't think if you just attract or just respect someone, you will miss her / him the way Sherlock miss Irene

of course you can or will miss someone even thought you not love them, but really miss them the way Sherlock miss Irene? i don't think so

(Swear to god, i miss Irene, because i really falling in love with her, hopefully she will return in season 4, really return not just some imagination in Sherlock mind)

Speaking of imagination in Sherlock mind....that also the proof that Sherlock love Irene

 

p.s / Sorry about my English, i know it suck  :( I will try my best to improve  :D

I understood every word! :smile:

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Whatever it was - don't forget that Irene was actually gay. :)

But she used her usual strategy on Sherlock which was sexual seduction. 

 

BTW, since our discussion about the SMS she send at Christmas, I just cannot see the "grieving Sherlock" version anymore. It seldom happens that I change my perception so drastically. Usually I can live with ambiguity quite well, but not in this case. Jeeez, hope I can ask the guys in person. Should start making a list. Or should it be a file? 

 

Sorry if this been discuss

But i'm not agree with the statement Irene is gay, there are no evidence to support that

But she having sex with a woman!!!!

that not make her gay, some people just so open minded with that kind of thing, they can make love with their opposite sex or same sex

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In the Battersea Power Station, Irene admitted herself that she is gay ^^

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She admitted she was gay, but that shouldn't be confused with her profession which deals with both men and women and doesn't involve sex.

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Do you guys know any clinic that can change your sex with the low cost??

 

**If Irene is gay, i need to change to woman ASAP!!!!!

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In the Battersea Power Station, Irene admitted herself that she is gay ^^

 

Okay, here is the script between John and Irene at power station

 

Watson: For the record, if anyone out there still cares, I'm not actually gay

Irene Adler: Well I am. Look at us both.

 

if you ask me, maybe Irene just try to make fun of John, still not really proof that she is gay

(i don't want to be a woman, please just agree with me here :P )

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