Sherlock (the BBC character)

[J.P.]

 

Anyway, it makes a lot of sense. Logically. Feelings only make us vulnerable. It's unreasonable, uncontrollable and irresponsible. But it is a defect that makes us human.

And what exactly is the advantage of being human, Sherlock?

[Van Buren Supernova]

:sherlock2: I don't know. I'll ask one.

[Boton]

Interesting article here.  While I still stand on the side of believing that Sherlock Holmes in general (and Sherlock, specifically) is heterosexual but has his sexuality under tight control, this piece gives background information such that I could see the idea that he might be asexual.  It is interesting this idea that being romantic and being sexual can be "decoupled" in some people, and that they can yearn for romance without wanting the sexual angle at all.

 

http://www.ozy.com/acumen/not-wanting-sex-in-a-sex-crazed-world/63236?utm_source=aah1&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pp&utm_content=inf_10_92_6&tse_id=INF_bf84acc052aa11e6b64f236881c19eed

 

(Also, apologies if I somehow said the above in a way that is insensitive to anyone on the forum who is asexual; as someone who has been unquestionably sexual my entire life, I needed the education.)

[Arcadia]

 

 

Anyway, it makes a lot of sense. Logically. Feelings only make us vulnerable. It's unreasonable, uncontrollable and irresponsible. But it is a defect that makes us human.

And what exactly is the advantage of being human, Sherlock?

 

 

I don't remember seeing this exchange before, but it really struck me just now.

 

I suppose it's possible that being human -- vulnerable, conflicted, illogical humans -- isn't an "advantage". But there's two things about that -- is it necessary to have an advantage? Is that what human interaction is limited to, competition? Maybe for some people, I guess. The kind of people I avoid.

 

The other thing is ... even if being human isn't an advantage to an individual, it sure is handy to our species at large. "Human" in this context means, I think, compassion, caring, fair treatment, helpfulness ... those things that make life worth living, imo, and not just endless striving for superiority.

 

That's what I think "being human" means, anyway. Usually.

 

[Amber§]

I think that Sherlock has a sort of disillusion towards people. I mean, he suffered a lot in the past (as you were saying beacuse of Redbeard and Mycroft), so maybe he is convinced that from people he would never have something good. He is convinced that, in case he cares about someone, now or then this person would hurt him and maybe abandon him. This would explain why Sherlock doesn't want to open himself to other people. This would emply confidence, so friendship, so feelings for other people and, in the end, weakness and sufference.

 

If you think about that, not caring about anyone is easier.

[J.P.]

From my perspective it‘s also a fear of getting dependend on others (materially and emotionally) and fear of loosing someone (or even something) that‘s dear to your heart. It‘s like: If I let this person into my heart and into my life, I might get so dependent on him/her, that I won‘t be able to live without, so to keep the relationship I‘ll start making decisions that will be bad for me. If I allow emotions now, maybe I won‘t be able to control them anymore, it‘s like opening the Pandora Box.

[Arcadia]

I think that Sherlock has a sort of disillusion towards people. I mean, he suffered a lot in the past (as you were saying beacuse of Redbeard and Mycroft), so maybe he is convinced that from people he would never have something good. He is convinced that, in case he cares about someone, now or then this person would hurt him and maybe abandon him. This would explain why Sherlock doesn't want to open himself to other people. This would emply confidence, so friendship, so feelings for other people and, in the end, weakness and sufference.

 

If you think about that, not caring about anyone is easier.

From my perspective it‘s also a fear of getting dependend on others (materially and emotionally) and fear of loosing someone (or even something) that‘s dear to your heart. It‘s like: If I let this person into my heart and into my life, I might get so dependent on him/her, that I won‘t be able to live without, so to keep the relationship I‘ll start making decisions that will be bad for me. If I allow emotions now, maybe I won‘t be able to control them anymore, it‘s like opening the Pandora Box.

To me, what you are both saying is that it's easier to go through life not caring for someone, than it is to risk being hurt (and being hurt when you care is almost inevitable, imo.) And maybe it is easier. But isn't it also letting fear win? And giving in to fear doesn't quite fit with my perception of Sherlock. I think he's still on a learning curve, and part of that is learning that it's okay to be hurt in that way; it's survivable, it teaches compassion (one hopes); and compassion is part of what makes you a "better" human being. And in Sherlock's case, compassion ... the ability to sympathize with what another being is going through ... would make him a better detective too.  So I'm hoping that's the direction he's going. Not dismissing "sentiment", but just figuring out where it fits in his life.

 

I still find myself wishing they'd stuck with the original plan of making him a little younger, because going through all this makes more sense for a younger man. I guess I'll just have to believe Sherlock is a really slow learner. :P

[Carol the Dabbler]

I still find myself wishing they'd stuck with the original plan of making him a little younger....

 

You might suggest that they do that -- I'm sure Mr. Cumberbatch would be happy to cooperate!

[J.P.]

Well he's four... teen. At heart. :D

[Arcadia]

 

I still find myself wishing they'd stuck with the original plan of making him a little younger....

You might suggest that they do that -- I'm sure Mr. Cumberbatch would be happy to cooperate!

 

I don't know, I remember reading statements about how he was looking forward to be older, or something like that. Although maybe that's changed now that he is! :D

 

 

Well he's four... teen. At heart. :D

Yeah.... ain't it adorable?

[Van Buren Supernova]

I guess I'll just have to believe Sherlock is a really slow learner. :P

Well, he has to learn language, science, chemistry, swordfight, violin etc there is an area that has to be compromised somehow. :p

 

 

I still find myself wishing they'd stuck with the original plan of making him a little younger....

You might suggest that they do that -- I'm sure Mr. Cumberbatch would be happy to cooperate!

You are saying he would prefer Justin Bieber's hair than curly hair??

God no..no no no NO.

 

Well he's four... teen. At heart. :D

Nah, I don't think so.

Have you seen a fourteen years old nowadays?

They are mostly bloody horny, unlike back then when I thought changing slipper with a boy would cause a pregnancy.

[Arcadia]

Hey, I liked the Bieber-hair, I thought it was cute. Cute Sherlock, that's what we need! 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

 

I still find myself wishing they'd stuck with the original plan of making him a little younger....

You might suggest that they do that -- I'm sure Mr. Cumberbatch would be happy to cooperate!

You are saying he would prefer Justin Bieber's hair than curly hair??

God no..no no no NO.

 

Well he's four... teen. At heart. :D

Nah, I don't think so.

Have you seen a fourteen years old nowadays?

They are mostly bloody horny, unlike back then when I thought changing slipper with a boy would cause a pregnancy.

 

 

1) the hair in the pilot was definitely better than Bieber's

 

2) Glad my kid is the exception to most 14 year olds

 

3) Could he actually be more like a 1st year male uni student.  I had 3 male classmates goof off on the "formal" floor of 1 of the academic buildings at my school.  The building had a chapel, banquet room & admissions offices all on that floor.  I'm surprised they didn't get into trouble & 1 of those guys I saw several years later said that at the age they were at the time of being crazy was equivalent to being my son's age at the time of our conversation (approx. 10).

 

Hey, I liked the Bieber-hair, I thought it was cute. Cute Sherlock, that's what we need! 

 

But he is cute & handsome & gorgeous & any other synonym related to those terms even without the Bieber-esque hair that he wore better than Bieber.

[Arcadia]

 

Hey, I liked the Bieber-hair, I thought it was cute. Cute Sherlock, that's what we need! 

 

But he is cute & handsome & gorgeous & any other synonym related to those terms even without the Bieber-esque hair that he wore better than Bieber.

 

Cute ... better not let Sherlock hear you say that, though. And definitely better hair than Bieber's.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I am half unsure and half scared of what 'goof off' means for 10years old..?

 

He didn't look bad with Bieber's hair six years ago. Now... nah.. it's probably difficult to take him seriously, and we won't have those historical hair ruffles, at least not to that effect.

[Arcadia]

Depends on the 10 year old, I'd say. My nephews' idea of "goofing off" would be to play Pokémon Go when they should be studying, I imagine. Meanwhile, a certain kid I'm thinking of would be more likely to be setting off a stink bomb .....

 

If he'd had the Bieber hair to begin with, we wouldn't mind so much if the hairstyle evolved, I bet ....

[Pseudonym]

How old do you reckon Sherlock was when he started wearing suits? I get the impression he started dabbling in drugs in uni, was probably caught up in it by the time he graduated, and was still in the depths of his addiction when he started helping Lestrade. Surely as an addict he would care about about spending his money on his next fix rather than perfectly tailored suits and a coat worth a small fortune... I have this image of him stumbling onto a crime scene and helping Lestrade whilst high as a kite, wearing ratty clothes and looking like death, mysteriously 'disappearing' for a while (rehab), before suddenly turning up at another crime scene perfectly presented with his perfectly fitted clothes and coat the way he is in the series. He clearly takes such pride in his appearance I wonder at what point did he decide that was the way he wanted to look, was it part of his armour to prove he'd got his act together? No student dresses like that so at what point did he think, 'I'll start wearing tailored suits and designer shirts. And I'll get this coat that's worth almost one and a half grand.' 

 

Edit:

 

 

 

To me, what you are both saying is that it's easier to go through life not caring for someone, than it is to risk being hurt (and being hurt when you care is almost inevitable, imo.) And maybe it is easier. But isn't it also letting fear win? And giving in to fear doesn't quite fit with my perception of Sherlock. I think he's still on a learning curve, and part of that is learning that it's okay to be hurt in that way; it's survivable, it teaches compassion (one hopes); and compassion is part of what makes you a "better" human being. And in Sherlock's case, compassion ... the ability to sympathize with what another being is going through ... would make him a better detective too.  So I'm hoping that's the direction he's going. Not dismissing "sentiment", but just figuring out where it fits in his life.

 

 

Maybe it's not about a fear of being hurt, he just legitimately doesn't need people. Not everyone does. Yea, he learns to accept and rely on John, and relies on Molly when absolutely he has to, but he is very much disconnected from those around him, and there is every possibility that it's not an act or a way of staving off hurt, it's just the way he's wired. 

 

[Arcadia]

Oh, I think he's presented as very much needing people. For an audience, if nothing else. For distraction, too. He says right at the beginning that he likes company when he goes out. He just doesn't want/need the cuddly poo stuff, it's all intellectual.

 

Suits ... hm. Don't some posh schools require the boys to wear suits? I'm probably thinking of Dead Poet's Society, I remember there were scenes with the kids all dressed alike in coats and ties ... which to me, is a suit.

[Pseudonym]

Yea, he probably had a very posh school uniform as a child/teen, but not as a uni student. I had to wear a very precise uniform at my school but I never would have worn something like it outside of school or once I left to go to college.

[Van Buren Supernova]

In my head, he probably started to poke his nose at crime scenes at 13 offering advices and tried to look older/more matured/more believable by wearing suit so that he was allowed in, so he stole Mycroft's suit.

 

It should happen not long after Carl Power, when no one listened to him so he tries to find better ways. Being tall with attitude probably helps too.

Then he sticks to it because he also likes to be unapproachable and wearing formal attire may help.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I like that theory VBS.  It is very plausible.  Of course will likely give some crazy back story flashback that totally explains the suits and has nothing at all even remotely related to your theory.  And the point of the flashback will have nothing to do with why Sherlock dresses the way he does, it will just answer that question anyhow.

[Pseudonym]

Ha, the thought of a thirteen year old Sherlock in a suit when he was probably all knees, elbows and hair.  :D

I would like to see some flashbacks, I liked the teeny tiny one we got of young addict Sherlock and Mycroft, I'd like to know more about their relationship when they were younger and when Sherlock was such a mess. 

 

Not related directly, but have you guys seen this? A face merge creating the 'ultimate' Sherlock Holmes, a mix of RDJ, BC, Brett and Rathbone. 

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

That is a good mix as it's hard to definitively say which part looks more like which actor.

[Arcadia]

Wow. I mostly see Brett and Rathbone.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Good lookin' dude, isn't he?