Star Trek Beyond ... and beyond

[Carol the Dabbler]

And the other thing:  Producer J. J. Abrams has announced that they will NOT be recasting the role of Chekov following the death of actor Anton Yelchin.  They don't know yet how they will handle the navigator's absence, but there will be no new face in the role.  I like that too.  It shows respect for Yelchin's memory.  Actually, I hope they don't kill off the character.  It would be nice to think that Chekov is still alive out there somewhere, and that through him, Yelchin lives on.

 

[Arcadia]

Yeah, give him a big promotion and transfer him to another ship. I'd like that.

 

It's going to be strange to see him. I was in a restaurant a few days after Anton Yelchin died, and I looked up to see his face on the TV screen ... they were showing Into Darkness. It was an odd sensation. So sad.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Almost forgot -- I was thinking if any of the traditional male characters was going to be gay, the possibilities were pretty slim.  Any of them could be bi, I suppose, but Kirk sure as hell is not gay (unless he's overcompensating like crazy).  Spock was engaged to a woman, and even though it had been arranged by their parents, he -- umm, how can I put this delicately? -- exhibited a strong physical willingness to follow through.  According to an original script that got re-written into unrecognizability, McCoy was divorced and had a daughter; he also married a woman in one episode.  Scottie clearly had the hots for a female nightclub performer in "Wolf in the Fold" and the female guest star in "Lights of Zetar."  Chekov's old girlfriend (actually, McCoy's rewritten daughter) showed up in "Way to Eden," plus he put the moves on a Klingon woman in "Day of the Dove."  Which kinda leaves Sulu, daughter or no daughter.

[Arcadia]

It wouldn't strain my credulity too much to discover Spock was bi, I don't think ... he's a Vulcan, for all I know they're all bi!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yeah, give him a big promotion and transfer him to another ship. I'd like that.

 

Maybe the regulars could have a scene where they're talking about his promotion and / or transfer to a different sort of job that he'd been wanting (as I recall, Yelchin's Chekov was amazingly good at a lot of things, and might actually prefer a lateral transfer to a more challenging job over a promotion to some sort of supervisory role). Anyhow, somebody says they're really going to miss him, and someone else says it's not like they'll never see him again, and someone else says yeah but I'm still gonna miss him. Sort of an extended double entendre, hopefully of the sort that works perfectly well either way (and steers clear of sappy).

[Caya]

I think for me it will depend on how they handle it ... if it's a big deal, which it doesn't sound like it will be, I might find it distracting. If you just happen to realize he's gay and then move on, I think that'd be great ... we're supposed to be evolved in the Star Trek universe, why would anybody bother to mention someone's sexual orientation one way or the other? Does it somehow affect how you do your job? C'mon, guys, show us something interesting, like blowing up a starship! :D

 

I agree, except for the 3 leads, the crew's sexuality was their business, not ours. Sometimes I long for the good ol' days....

 

I kinda liked how Babylon 5 handled this (and back then, to boot) ... like it ain't no thang, which it really shouldn't be in a time and place like that. Like, when two (male, straight) characters were travelling to Mars in a secret mission, and the rebel leader told them they'd been booked into the Honeymoon suite - they reacted to that with an exasperated sigh and a brief joke respectively, and the plot moved on. Thus the audience was informed that gay marriage was legal in that age (wasn't in real life then) and that nobody gave much of a hoot about orientation, and we could go back to the space battles .

 

Still not sure about that Sulu thing. While I very much appreciate the first gay Star Trek char (well, the first openly one ... even disergarding all the Kirk/Spock discussion, there's still Garak) I think they should have respected Takei's wishes in the matter. Why not, like you said, make someone bisexual?

 

The decision not to recast Chekov, love it. Let him be out there on some extra-special mission (he's supposed to be a prodigy, isn't he?).

[Carol the Dabbler]

I will admit that there's one aspect of the gay Sulu thing that bothers me a little. I've seen John Cho quoted as saying they meant it as an hommage to George Takei, and if that's an accurate quote, then I think it comes uncomfortably close to confusing the actor with the role.

 

Not sure whether I think Takei should have the final say or not, but IF they truly did it strictly as an hommage, and he declined the honor, then I'd say they should have retracted it.

 

On the other hand, I suspect the hommage thing was simply their easy explanation / public story, and their motivation was far more complex than that. I do kinda like that they've taken a character whose sexual orientation was never really revealed and said "oh, by the way, he's gay," and I've already shown that it'd be awfully hard to make a plausible case that any of the other male regulars was gay. If they wanted it to be one of the original male characters, it just about had to be Sulu.

[T.o.b.y]

 Kirk sure as hell is not gay (unless he's overcompensating like crazy).

 

:lol: Looking at real-life examples, that's actually not so terribly improbable.

 

I also know gay men who are married to women and have children with them. Being gay does not mean you cannot physically have sex with the opposite gender, and if you grow up in a society where being gay is frowned upon or even dangerous or illegal, it makes sense to either marry in order to avoid suspicion, and / or try to turn yourself straight. Or to just be in denial about your orientation.

 

But if the Star Treck world is really as utopian as it's presented, then of course it wouldn't be a big deal and there wouldn't be any reason to overcompensate because it wouldn't be perceived as something that needs compensating.

 

So yeah, Carol, you're probably right.

 

Isn't it kind of sad that "one of the Star Treck characters is gay!" is news? Would they make headlines about one of them bing left-handed? Jesus.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Back about a hundred years ago, being left-handed actually was considered seriously wrong (sorta like being gay was in the 70's). Left-handed kids were punished till they stopped using their naturally dominant hand. Some of them picked up a stutter or a twitch along the way, but hey --at least they weren't (*gasp*) left-handed anymore.

 

Things change, but somehow manage to stay the same. (The French have a saying that I am too lazy to look up right now.)

[Carol the Dabbler]

OK, we saw the movie tonight, and we both liked it, even though it was certainly bigger-faster-louder AND there was an awful lot of WTF.  But I found that by assuming the whole thing would make sense if I knew what was going on and could understand what they were saying, I really enjoyed it.  Alex and I are both looking forward to the DVD, hoping for a good bit of clarification (and subtitles).

 

There were some delightful paleo-Trek moments as usual (though my favorite had already been in the trailer).  The actors are really good at hitting those notes (especially Quinto and Urban).

 

I had been wondering how/if they'd acknowledge the recent deaths of two prominent cast members, and thought they did it very nicely:  There was one card in the end credits reading "In loving memory of Leonard Nimoy" (I believe that's the wording), followed by one reading simply "For Anton."

 

Good villain.  My main complaint about their first movie was that (near as I could tell) the villain was bad because he was bad.  Khan was better, though in my opinion they should have left him as simply John Harrison.  (I think omitting some of the moments that mirrored the original-cast encounters with Khan would actually have strengthened the movie.)  This time, I thought they hit precisely the right notes, so that it all made sense in the end (I think!).

 

Loved how the Enterprise crew made use of what happened to be available in order to disrupt the enemy fleet's coordination!

 

Any doubts about how this movie would fare without Abrams as director seem to have been unfounded.

 

[Arcadia]

Yay, hope it's still showing when I get back to civilization! Sounds like just the sort of summer fun movie I'm in the mood for. Besides ... it's Star Trek! Of course I'll see it ....

[Bluebell]

I was yesterday in the theatre, and it was really good!

About the gay guy - we see in the first minutes an asian gay couple with a kid, which I assumed to be Sulu with his boyfriend/husband and kid. I am sorry I usually don't follow up so fast, and I am not enough of a trekkie to really decide about who is gay or not  :lol:  -  they really made it a quick scene (and unfortunately, in theatres there is no possibility to rewind :lol2: ), so I was like 'ok was it that asian guy from the ship now? Well if so, finally...because I think there's loads fanfiction about gay Star Trek Couples, even german comedians made a comedy about very gay Star Trek - impersonators already' :D .

But as you discuss him above to be gay, I would say it has been him. Which is, after seeing 'Independence day 2', another step forward towards the development to include gay people and couples in the blockbuster world, which is excellent! (In Independence day I already knew there was supposed to be a gay couple since I read a review in a gay mag before, but I had to wait about an hour or so until I realized who was meant by that as it's very very subtle and only 'guessable' in a significant scene - I try not to spoiler, that's why my 'careful' choice of words. ;) ...I am just trying to say that I think it's great that blockbuster films develop in a cool direction, finally, not only series, where it's already established that there's gay characters in them.

Furthermore I was happy that Star Trek also developed more powerful women, like Jaylah   (laughed a lot about her dialogues with Scotty :lol: ), and I think Lt. Uhura also has stepped a bit forward into the light, funny also her relationship with Spock.

Big action and entertainment factor with all the starship action, so there's stuff for everyone in it, I think that's what makes generally a good film, if Trekkie or not.

I just regret I haven't seen 'Into darkness' in the theatre, must have been awesome.

[Fantasy Lover]

Just seen it yesterday, I like the fact that they added more humour in it. And whoever did the camera/ cinematography, it needs work. There where moments where it was pure beauty, and there where moments where the camera rotated and made me dizzy.

 

And as several mentioned: the reveal that Sulu is gay. On one hand I'm glad that we FINALLY have a gay character in Star Trek, on the other I'm disappointed that Spock/Kirk isn't canon. Who DOESN'T ship them?

[Carol the Dabbler]

And as several mentioned: the reveal that Sulu is gay. On one hand I'm glad that we FINALLY have a gay character in Star Trek, on the other I'm disappointed that Spock/Kirk isn't canon. Who DOESN'T ship them?

Well, me for one. In fact, I can't think that I've ever shipped anybody on Star Trek (at least, not till Janeway/ Chakotay). But then I'm an original series fan from back when the show was on NBC, and nobody was talking about slash till five years later (though I suppose some fans may have been *thinking* about it). But yeah, it does seem to be a popular ship.

[Arcadia]

 

I just regret I haven't seen 'Into darkness' in the theatre, must have been awesome.

It was. So was the first movie. "Star Trek" still has it, baby. :d

[Arcadia]

And as several mentioned: the reveal that Sulu is gay. On one hand I'm glad that we FINALLY have a gay character in Star Trek, on the other I'm disappointed that Spock/Kirk isn't canon. Who DOESN'T ship them?

 

I don't! Although to be fair, I don't think I've ever "shipped" any character in any show, unless they were already together. I just sort of go along with whatever the show makers choose to show me, and don't think much beyond that, I guess.

 

Janeway/Chakotay? Really? He's so dull! :d

[Carol the Dabbler]

She really seemed to dig him, though -- in a dignified captainly way, of course.

[J.P.]

The makers don't ship them - obviously.
It would be just giving in to what a group of fans wish.

And it would make absolutely no sense in the ST universe - the older versions of Spock and Kirk are obviously not in any kind of romantic relationship in the original show.

[Arcadia]

She really seemed to dig him, though -- in a dignified captainly way, of course.

Of course. <_<

 

Did we ever get to meet her significant other? I can't remember. She spoke about him, but ... in fact, did the crew ever get home? I liked Voyager quite a bit but I seem to have drifted away from it at some point, I can't remember how it ended.

 

The makers don't ship them - obviously.

It would be just giving in to what a group of fans wish.

And it would make absolutely no sense in the ST universe - the older versions of Spock and Kirk are obviously not in any kind of romantic relationship in the original show.

 

Obvious to you, maybe! :D It's my understanding that quite a few people saw otherwise. I have to admit the only hint of romance between the regular characters I ever picked up on was Janice's crush on Kirk, and him sort of noticing her back -- but quite correctly recognizing the power balance between them was too unequal. (And that's why I have a problem imagining any captain with a member of his/her crew; I wouldn't respect him/her much if it happened.)

 

Side note (sorry, this is probably going to mean something only to die hard (and possibly, ahem, "older" :P Trekkers): I just happened to catch "Who Mourns for Adonais" on TV a few days ago. I haven't seen that episode for years and years. Of course, the show looks clunky by today's standards, but man, that was a good script. Kirk at his best, nice little bits for all the supporting cast, and decent reflections on humanity, etc. The lighting and costuming for the female guest was absurd, but otherwise she had a decent role, too. Co-written by Gene L. Coon, as it turns out (why am I not surprised.) It was fun, it reminded me why I loved the show so.

 

Must have been an early S2 episode, Chekov still had the wig. Thank god Koenig decided to grow his hair instead. :P

 

ST Beyond has the looks, but it didn't quite capture the soul of the original, imo. That's okay, it was a fun adventure. Sometimes the fun episodes were the best ones.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yes, I believe the Voyager crew (most of them, at least -- I don't recall exactly) did make it home in the last episode. Likewise the crew on the Enterprise prequel.

[Arcadia]

I never saw but one episode of Enterprise, which is odd because I really liked Scott Bakula in Quantum Leap. But somehow it just never got on my radar. So they were lost in space too? Hmmmmm......

 

 

ETA: and now that you mention it, that "last episode" of Voyager bit rings a bell, so maybe I did see it. Good, I'm glad they didn't just leave them out there.

[Caya]

Spoilers for Voyager to follow, at least as far as I remember it, since it's been a while and I was more of a DS9 gal anyway (so take it with a grain of salt ;)):

 

They make it home the long way, which elderly Janeway thinks sucks for several reasons, like Chakotay being dead and Tuvok having some degenerative illness, so she jumps back in time and space and somehow fixes it (the Borg travel network was involved iirc) so that the crew comes home earlier, safe and sound, while the Borg can't come and invade Earth, while sacrificing herself (well, that elder instance of herself).

 

As for Kirk and Spock never having officially been together in the old series, neither were Spock and Uhura and that obviously didn't stop them either in the reboot, so ... Personally, I could never quite see it (Spock and Bones, though, that's an old married couple :D) but since so many people could and can, I'm probably just tone deaf.

 

Never saw much of Enterprise, but according to my husband, as soon as it finally hit its stride and became good, they cancelled it.

[Arcadia]

And now it doesn't sound familiar, so I don't know if I saw it or not! (The end of Voyager, that is.) Thanks Martina, at least now I have a clue.

 

Yes, Spock and Bones I could see. :P Talk about your Holmes and Watson avatars! What does that make Kirk, though; Mycroft? Lestrade?

[Inge l-w]

Kirk is the mediator between them, so in a non-old-married-couple way, Spock could be Mycroft and Dr McCoy Sherlock, with his intuitive leaps of reasoning, with Kirk either as Dr Watson or DI Lesrade.

[Arcadia]

No no nooo, Bones has to be down-to-earth John Watson! Besides, they're both doctors.