Episode 4.0: The Abominable Bride (alias The Special)

[Arcadia]

Yes, I remember those days ... blithely unaware that Sherlock even existed, let alone a forum in which to obssess over discuss it ... ah, that was a time .....

[J.P.]

You mean the time we had for ourselves... :D

[Bluebell]

little reminder: Toniiiiight in Germany, finally!!! :sherlock2:

 

http://www.daserste.de/unterhaltung/film/sherlock/die-braut-des-grauens-sendetermin-100.html

 

 

and if you click on the 'Live' button you can watch it on the net, just in case you don't have 'regular' tv (like me)  - maybe you can have a look from other countries as well, I don't know about the connection....Or later in the Mediathek I guess...

 

Even my mum will watch, hehe :D

[Arcadia]

It's an event!!! Have fun!!!

[J.P.]

...which is constantly destroyed by ARD self. Started poorly and now they are spreading spoilers trough Twitter. *facepalm*

[Bluebell]

I have seen it already on BBC, but of course I'll watch! :D

[J.P.]

Oh, I just realized that Sherlock did not forget to introduce himself this time. After two attempts... He learns so fast :D

[J.P.]

And we have had the first Lost-in-Translation-moment already. INTERMEZZO... WTF?!?

[J.P.]

Okay, Moriarty's line about landing might be merely a clue from the outer world (the plane is landing)

[Bluebell]

It was so strange watching it in German now because I am not used to their dub voices anymore...does Watson have a new one? (I hate it when actors get new voices, it recently happened with Mulder in the X-files and it's just annoying. But maybe I am already so used to Martin Freemans real voice that the dub one sounds so strange...that Sherlock's got the same as Daryl Dixon is okay and it kinda works, haha...) And I have to say, as much as I love the Now-Watson - I dislike the victorian one. :P

 

Mary is the coolest :D . I have to say, I first was suspicious what happens when Mary comes in the show, but she is a great character, you just gotta love her.

Molly, too - she's hell of a drag king!

 

And I so had to laugh about the scene at the waterfall, when er, I think it was Watson, calls Moriarty 'Wichtel' - I don't remember what the english expression is in the scene, but it sounded so funny. :lol2: Somehow did not fit in the whole moment, it was hilarious! Wichtel is in german something like a dwarf, or small christmas elf, haha...

[J.P.]

Short-arse. Basically the same. I like watching it with dubbing sometimes, because it somehow changes the viewpoint with an information different than what you have inhaled for the n-th time. This thing with landing occurred just now.

[Lalarun]

...which is constantly destroyed by ARD self. Started poorly and now they are spreading spoilers trough Twitter. *facepalm*

Yes, even in the trailer just before it started today they spread spoilers. Well, bit not good. Or rather very much not good.

And we have had the first Lost-in-Translation-moment already. INTERMEZZO... WTF?!?

It's so annoying. I mean, it cannot be that difficult, can it?

It was so strange watching it in German now because I am not used to their dub voices anymore...does Watson have a new one? (I hate it when actors get new voices, it recently happened with Mulder in the X-files and it's just annoying. But maybe I am already so used to Martin Freemans real voice that the dub one sounds so strange...that Sherlock's got the same as Daryl Dixon is okay and it kinda works, haha...) And I have to say, as much as I love the Now-Watson - I dislike the victorian one. :P

 

Mary is the coolest :D . I have to say, I first was suspicious what happens when Mary comes in the show, but she is a great character, you just gotta love her.

 

And I so had to laugh about the scene at the waterfall, when er, I think it was Watson, calls Moriarty 'Wichtel' - I don't remember what the english expression is in the scene, but it sounded so funny. :lol2: Somehow did not fit in the whole moment, it was hilarious! Wichtel is in german something like a dwarf, or small christmas elf, haha...

I don't think John has a new voice (I haven't seen the dubbed one for a while, but it still sounds like Howard Wolowitz from The Big Bang Theory like it did before (that's one of the reason I don't like his German voice, I just cannot take him seriously somehow because of that association)). I hate those changes too when I notice them by the way.

Wichtel :lol: I agree that was very funny. Easter elf, according to the air date? :D

[Arcadia]

So, give, ladies ... what was lost in translation, and what about the landing? We're dying in the desert over here!

[Amber§]

I watched the trailer in German that you posted, bluebell! I didn't understand anything except landing. You were talking about that, weren't you? But I didn't catched intermezzo (which is an italian word).  :D 

 

 

[Bluebell]

No, it was J.P.'s post about the landing and the intermezzo, which is something I didn't get either, so maybe she can explain what she meant to the both of us then...? ;)

 

Well, in case of landing the plane or something - the german word for landing is actually 'Landung' or the verb is 'landen' (to land), so it's basically only one little difference, but I have no idea what exactly J.P. meant there.

 

I now watched the english version once again, and yes, it was Sherlock calling Moriarty 'short-arse', which can be translated as 'Wichtel' or 'Wicht', too...

[Bluebell]

 

It was so strange watching it in German now because I am not used to their dub voices anymore...does Watson have a new one? (I hate it when actors get new voices, it recently happened with Mulder in the X-files and it's just annoying. But maybe I am already so used to Martin Freemans real voice that the dub one sounds so strange...that Sherlock's got the same as Daryl Dixon is okay and it kinda works, haha...) And I have to say, as much as I love the Now-Watson - I dislike the victorian one. :P

 

Mary is the coolest :D . I have to say, I first was suspicious what happens when Mary comes in the show, but she is a great character, you just gotta love her.

 

And I so had to laugh about the scene at the waterfall, when er, I think it was Watson, calls Moriarty 'Wichtel' - I don't remember what the english expression is in the scene, but it sounded so funny. :lol2: Somehow did not fit in the whole moment, it was hilarious! Wichtel is in german something like a dwarf, or small christmas elf, haha...

I don't think John has a new voice (I haven't seen the dubbed one for a while, but it still sounds like Howard Wolowitz from The Big Bang Theory like it did before (that's one of the reason I don't like his German voice, I just cannot take him seriously somehow because of that association)). I hate those changes too when I notice them by the way.

Wichtel :lol: I agree that was very funny. Easter elf, according to the air date? :D

 

 

Oh no, that's why I thought all the time 'I definitely know this voice, but so not with John Watson!!' - its Wolowitz, of course!

Haven't seeen TBBT in a while, since I have no regular TV anymore and they don't have whole episode updates on the website who broadcasts it, unfortunately...so I don't even know which season it is right now, and I have only the first season on DVD as a UK-import...

 

Ha, and when Moriarty spoke I had to think of Agent Tim McGee from NCIS.

 

Dubbed versions are so weird sometimes, but hey, we have really some decent dub speakers here (I even know one of them but she does mostly childrens shows cos she's got quite a high feminine voice...) - have you ever seen a film dubbed in turkish....? :P

 

It's just that I have sometimes the feeling, that the english and the german versions have bit of a different mood to the shows, I don't know how to better explain it, it's just feels different, you know what I mean?

 

 

[Lalarun]

I think I know what you mean, Bluebell.

It probably has to do that the sound of the voices is different and this alone influences the mood somehow independent from the language, just the voices.

Then there are those little differences in pronunciation/stress of specific phrases. That can have to do with the language (sentences sometimes are just stressed differently in different languages), but also with the acting and if the dubbing is able to keep for example the emotional part of some sentences like the actor did. I guess it can change the feeling about some things as well.

Another reason might be the feeling regarding specific words or the associations with them. I cannot really explain it, it's just that the choice of words is important too and depending on what they decide to use as a German word for an English one it can lead to a different view of certain scenes and so changes the mood of them.

[J.P.]

The thing with landing: I was talking about my former post:

 

Okay, Moriarty's line about landing might be merely a clue from the outer world (the plane is landing)

 

Which is about the scene with Jim saying: "it's not the fall that kills you - it's the landing". Maybe there is nothing important behind this words, beside the fact that the plane landed.

 

Intermezzo was the translation of the word (subtitle) "alternatively" with the years running backwards. I'd like to know what they were thinking...

[Bluebell]

Ah I see, I just connected the landing rather to Reichenbach than the plane in the special then...so, different interpretation. ;)

Think I have to watch the german version again now, because I actually don't remember the word 'intermezzo' at all. :D

 

Yes, the acting ability of the dub speaker is important. (That's what my aquaintance said when she spoke about her work, too. She said it really sucks when people just read the words from a script, you hear it in the result. It's like with actors, people got to have the talent for it.)

But even if they are experienced speakers - especially noticed it in the scene when John said 'I'm going to bring Mary home.' and Mary says 'What?'; 'Mary's bringing me home', and she says 'Better'. Maybe it's generally the interaction and the way to speak of the original actors, and it was only bit of a nuance the dubs didn't catch it like in the original. Maybe it was because I have seen it already in english before, but it wasn't as funny as when I saw it in the english version in the first place.

Just an example, as it was one of the significant scenes that I remembered from first time watching and made me giggle, and go like: Yesss... hehe.

 

 

[J.P.]

That's the interesting thing about watching films you know by heart in different language, different size or environment. Your brain leaves the tracks that those former viewings have built. Allows to have a new look sometimes.

[Arcadia]

Thanks for the explanation, JP!

 

I remember seeing Das Boot in German with subtitles, then later seeing the dubbed-into-English version, and thinking, gee, that movie wasn't as good as I thought it was. Then I saw the subtitled version again and, yes it was just as good as I thought it was! There was just something about the dubbing that took some of the tension out of it. I feel that way about a lot of anime, too. Although some of it works just fine dubbed. Go figure.

[Boton]

 

 

I now watched the english version once again, and yes, it was Sherlock calling Moriarty 'short-arse', which can be translated as 'Wichtel' or 'Wicht', too...

 

"Short-arse" sounds so strange to my American ears.  It's like they are having this really intense moment, and then there's this ineffective little almost-an-insult thrown in.  I wonder what would be the equivalent that would capture the actual intensity?

[J.P.]

I think it IS an insult.

[Bluebell]

 

 

 

I now watched the english version once again, and yes, it was Sherlock calling Moriarty 'short-arse', which can be translated as 'Wichtel' or 'Wicht', too...

 

"Short-arse" sounds so strange to my American ears.  It's like they are having this really intense moment, and then there's this ineffective little almost-an-insult thrown in.  I wonder what would be the equivalent that would capture the actual intensity?

 

 

I agree with JP that it was meant as an insult, and I understand what you mean - it makes the scene kind of weird-funny ( I would not say ridiculous, it is rather unexpected funny, maybe unintentional...), especially in german. Possibly it is to americans the same with some 'very british' words. What would americans call a short annoying person? B) Midget? (would sound funny as well I think, haha...)

What do the british people around here say? Is short-arse a rather funny word, or a bad insult for Moriarty?

[Slithytove]

"Short-arse" is one of those insults which is almost affectionate.  It isn't a hate-filled term by any means, so you might be annoyed if someone called you by that name but you wouldn't be deeply hurt. (In my opinion, anyway - I'm tall, so it has never been applied to me!) So its purpose in the scene was, I think, to temporarily lighten the mood, and evidently the German translation achieved the same thing.  I think that these little moments that make you smile are a clue to why Sherlock is so much more effective than, say, Elementary.  (Apart from the fact that Elementary's ridiculous plots make Sherlock's seem almost believable.)  Humour adds such a lot to drama.  Buffy is another example.  The fact that it had humour as well as tension helped to raise it above the run-of-the-mill vampire story.

 

But...but...Watson's German voice is Howard Wolowitz​?  Well, I wasn't expecting that...