Episode 4.0: The Abominable Bride (alias The Special)

[bedelia1984]

Is it possible that Mycroft just foresees having to publicly distance himself from Sherlock after Magnussen, for the sake of his political credibility? So he's just asking John to look after him in his place. I could see that leading to some kind of go-between shenanigans for John and Mycroft that Moftiss might enjoy- and nice fodder for more MF/MG scenes.

[J.P.]

Well, actually Mark can kill Mycroft and still have fun playing him after that. They did it to Moriarty.

Can you imagine those two meeting in Sherlock's MP? :D

 

But no. I want Mycroft alive and kicking - not necessarily kicking Sherlock though.

[Arcadia]

....  I think John has been a bit of an unwitting bridge between the brothers.

I'm interested in this idea. In what way has he been a bridge, do you think? He's better able to communicate with both of them than they are with each other, I think. What else?

 

You know, we've always talked about John setting an example for Sherlock, maybe he's set an example for Mycroft too? By showing him there's another way to handle his brother other than just trying to give him orders?

 

Yes, but also I think the Mycroft that John in particular sees has naturally changed, because in the beginning Mycroft was testing John's loyalty to Sherlock, and acting the heavy in his role as over-protective big brother. He wanted to seem cold and a bit frightening to John, to see how easy John was to manipulate, and gauge how much he could be trusted if he were placed in a stressful or dangerous situation. Mycroft's opinion of John seems to have continually improved, and in TAB he seems to trust him with Sherlock's safety. So in a sense we are always seeing Mycroft as he wants John to see him, and as he warmed to John, he seems to us a warmer person.

 

I had this idea ... I don't know if I believe it, but I had it :P ... maybe it will turn out that Mycroft has been this sweet, caring person all along, but we haven't seen it because we've been viewing him from either John's or Sherlock's p.o.v. up to now. They both clearly have issues when it comes to Mycroft -- John's are understandable, given the way they were introduced. We don't know yet why Sherlock has such a spiky relationship with his brother, but it's possible it's all his fault, and Mycroft has been the innocent victim all this time.

 

But I hope not. :P

 

Story-wise yes. But... Hell, I might quit watching if he's going to die. Favorably - quit BEFORE he dies.

Or go to the third Sherlocked to strangle Mofftiss.

If that happens ... kick them in the groin for me while you're at it, would you? :P

 

Is it possible that Mycroft just foresees having to publicly distance himself from Sherlock after Magnussen, for the sake of his political credibility? So he's just asking John to look after him in his place. I could see that leading to some kind of go-between shenanigans for John and Mycroft that Moftiss might enjoy- and nice fodder for more MF/MG scenes.

I thought of that too ... particularly since I still think it's possible that Mycroft's behind the Moriarty gif. But then I thought maybe Mycroft simply saw that he couldn't get through to Sherlock, so asked John to watch over him instead. This kind of fits in with what I mentioned above; maybe Mycroft is finally beginning to realize that being the bossy big brother who threatens Sherlock with "orders" has not worked out well for either of them? Maybe he's realizing he needs to be a friend, like John, and not an authority figure?

 

I hope so! :D

[bedelia1984]

 

  ... maybe it will turn out that Mycroft has been this sweet, caring person all along, but we haven't seen it because we've been viewing him from either John's or Sherlock's p.o.v. up to now. They both clearly have issues when it comes to Mycroft -- John's are understandable, given the way they were introduced. We don't know yet why Sherlock has such a spiky relationship with his brother, but it's possible it's all his fault, and Mycroft has been the innocent victim all this time.

I think I partly see Mycroft as a particularly harsh victim of the oldest sibling syndrome (something which I also suffer for myself). So, in theory he is (a) the one the parents made the most mistakes on (possibly explaining some of his personality... quirks), ( B) has an over-developed sense of responsibility, including towards the family unit (see: everything involving Sherlock) and, my favourite © slightly higher intelligence than other siblings. I don't consider him an innocent party in his relationship with Sherlock, but I do get the feeling that a lot of the time his weirdness is not entirely within his control. I think especially with John, he behaved in such a bizarre controlling way because he both could be a threat to Sherlock's safety, and was a more tangible threat to Mycroft's position of importance in Sherlock's life.

 

 

 

This kind of fits in with what I mentioned above; maybe Mycroft is finally beginning to realize that being the bossy big brother who threatens Sherlock with "orders" has not worked out well for either of them? Maybe he's realizing he needs to be a friend, like John, and not an authority figure?

 

I totally agree that it is time for Mycroft to bow out of the omnipresent protector role (though I know I'll be the the first viewing asking the TV why Mycroft isn't doing anything, the next time Sherlock is in danger- really I'm no better than Sherlock himself in that regard). I just hope they can forge a more true friendship as a result, rather than have Mycroft fade into the background. I think maybe part of the difficulty is that Moftiss want to hint a juicy family backstories, without actually exposing them, so we may never get those satisfying relationship-development scenes between Mycroft and Sherlock- a shame, as the actors are capable of so much.

[Arcadia]

 

... maybe it will turn out that Mycroft has been this sweet, caring person all along, but we haven't seen it because we've been viewing him from either John's or Sherlock's p.o.v. up to now. They both clearly have issues when it comes to Mycroft -- John's are understandable, given the way they were introduced. We don't know yet why Sherlock has such a spiky relationship with his brother, but it's possible it's all his fault, and Mycroft has been the innocent victim all this time.

I think I partly see Mycroft as a particularly harsh victim of the oldest sibling syndrome (something which I also suffer for myself).

Aha. And I am the baby of the family, by many years, so I don't get it at all! :D

 

I totally agree that it is time for Mycroft to bow out of the omnipresent protector role (though I know I'll be the the first viewing asking the TV why Mycroft isn't doing anything, the next time Sherlock is in danger- really I'm no better than Sherlock himself in that regard). I just hope they can forge a more true friendship as a result, rather than have Mycroft fade into the background. I think maybe part of the difficulty is that Moftiss want to hint a juicy family backstories, without actually exposing them, so we may never get those satisfying relationship-development scenes between Mycroft and Sherlock- a shame, as the actors are capable of so much.

Agggh. I hate to keep bringing up these comments when I can't remember where the source is, BUT .... there's something about Gatiss having had a difficult relationship with his own brother, which partly drives the portrayal of Sherlock and Mycroft's relationship. And Gatiss finally reconciled with his brother, so I would hope that's where M & S are headed some day. On the other hand, I really enjoy the way they snark at each other.

[Amber§]

In effect, there's something more in Mycroft's words to John, in the end.

I only hope that Mycroft won't die, even if, as you said before, it is probable, also from what we see in Sherlock's mind palace and from Mycroft's himself behaviour. In my opinion,if Mycroft dies, Sherlock will be greatly shaken and I don't think he will be the same. I think Mycroft's death will lead Sherlock to (self)distruction because, after all, he loves his brother and he needs his protection (many times Mycroft saved Sherlock).

Maybe Mycroft only resigns to the fact that Sherlock is angry with him for some reason (I think Redbeard is involved) and asks John to look after Sherlock becuase he can't do it himself. Or maybe he's worried because Sherlock's addiction to drugs is getting worse.

[Arcadia]

I agree with all of that.

 

I have to admit it never occurred to me that Mycroft might be dying. At the same time, there did seem to be an air of melancholy about him; like he thinks he's lost something. I suspect Sherlock's right: Mycroft is lonely. Maybe he didn't even realize that himself until he thought he was losing Sherlock for good?

[Van Buren Supernova]

I suspect Sherlock's right: Mycroft is lonely. Maybe he didn't even realize that himself until he thought he was losing Sherlock for good?

Waks.. that is sad.

I don't doubt Mycroft has a lot of acquantainces but Sherlock is the only one he cares about. Enough to get him off his ass, spend at least months infiltrating Moriarty's network to get to him, especially those dreaded legwork.

 

I was thinking Molly, but by reading many of your reasonings about why Mycroft won't be killed, I kind of think he could be in line to die. Geez, what have you done?

 

And weirdly, although both will be devastating, if I had to choose, I prefer Mycroft to be safe, at least Molly hasn't gone that far with Sherlock. Unless they are being sadistic, really develop the relationship and deliver the blow at the end.

[sfmpco]

Story-wise yes. But... Hell, I might quit watching if he's going to die. Favorably - quit BEFORE he dies.

Or go to the third Sherlocked to strangle Mofftiss.

 

What is good to remember is that ALL IS ALL (couldn't resist!) canon for Moffat and Gatiss... and it should be noted that Mycroft is alive and find in post WWI London in the Laurie R. King books, and as I am currently reading "A Monstrous Regiment of Women," I can say they borrowed more than just that title for use in TAB.  So... one needn't despair so quickly, I think, but I do think something is coming that is going to shake Sherlock's world, and it just may blindside him.

[Arcadia]

Unless they are being sadistic, really develop the relationship and deliver the blow at the end.

..... I do think something is coming that is going to shake Sherlock's world, and it just may blindside him.

Sssshhh, you two, they have enough sadistic ideas already!

[sfmpco]

Just please don't let anything happen to his parents!

[Van Buren Supernova]

Ssssssshhhhhh.. I am trying to use reverse psychology.

[sittything]

To be fair, The Walking Dead has probably messed with any sense I might have had about character well-being following the books.  They love nothing more in TWD than to give characters other character's deaths.  So now I think I look for it everywhere.  So let us hope that Mofftiss hasn't watched that show yet, or they might think that's a clever idea.  Argh.

 

It's not unhead of for Mycroft to ask John to look after Sherlock.  He's certainly done it before, so I don't think that's concerning in and of itself.  There's just a feeling... an air about Mycroft that, as Arcadia said, is so melancholy.  

[sittything]

Just please don't let anything happen to his parents!

 

At the risk of sounding terrible, I'd sacrifice the parents for Mycroft and Molly.  I want Mycroft and Molly protected at all costs.

[Arcadia]

       .....Same here.

[sfmpco]

To be fair, although we adore the parents, I don't think their characters are big enough that even if they died, it would have such a dramatic impact in the show... unless they became bigger characters in S4.... but I'm not inclined to believe that one.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Finally catching up on this thread.

 

What worries the #%#% out of me is a single sentence by the unlikeable Dr Watson: in the train scene, a direct copy of the Musgrave Blaze etching, he says, when Sherlock questions his lack of imagination: "Perhaps since I convinced the reading public that an unprincipled drug addict was some kind of gentleman hero."
We know that it all takes place in Sherlock's head, but it denotes two things:
a ) Sherlock's extremely low self-worth in the series, self-esteem, self-confidence, call it what you will, and
b ) the creators' image of the most iconic sleuth in crime fiction.
What does it say about how Messers Moffat and Gatiss regard their creation/victim?

 

And after reading this, Inge, I've determined that your current profile pic of Victorian Sherlock looks somewhat evil for some reason. My brain is weird today apparently.

[Amber§]

No no, please, no tragedies no no no!

I think Sherlock's condition of isolation is tragic enough

[sittything]

Gonna put this here b/c spoilers:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjeX-AgK6aI

[J.P.]

Oh, that was good. So smart how the dialogue was put together. And it shows how similar they both are in gestures and expressions.

Or that blinking. I never noticed that by Mycroft.

[sittything]

If I wasn't fairly certain that the first plane scene is legit, I'd think it mind palace b/c Mycroft says Molly's words from HLV nearly verbatim:  Mycroft's "Stop this. Just stop it." vs. her "Stop it. Just stop it."

[sittything]

Oh, that was good. So smart how the dialogue was put together. And it shows how similar they both are in gestures and expressions.

Or that blinking. I never noticed that by Mycroft.

 

You know, after watching this, I'm not sure I want a 3rd Holmes brother/sister now.  I don't want anything that can mess up the incredible dynamic between Mycroft and Sherlock.

[J.P.]

Okay, an update on the plane set: I was trying to tickle some answers from Arwel. Didn't get much, but at least he confirmed my guess that one of the sets was a real plane and the other was built. I think from the on-screen time, the plane was in HLV.

Well, weren't they able to reconstruct the interior 1:1? I don't know. It might be on purpose, but maybe they had to save money and used pieces of other sets or an existing airplane interior pieces.

So we are still in the same place as before. -_-

[Arcadia]

Re: the video:

You know, after watching this, I'm not sure I want a 3rd Holmes brother/sister now. I don't want anything that can mess up the incredible dynamic between Mycroft and Sherlock.

Y'know, I've been thinking the same thing recently. I've always considered Mycroft to be on the outskirts of the story but if he's going to move closer to center stage (and for some reason TAB gave me that impression) I'm not sure I want the complication of a new relationship in the mix --- let me get used to this one, first!
 
That was a pretty heartbreaking video. I wonder how close it is to Moftisses' vision of their relationship. I've always thought Sherlock's "how would you know?" remark was born from a place of compassion, but this makes me see it completely the other way around.

[sfmpco]

That video was just WOW.  I swear the fans put together better videos and trailers than the BBC.