Episode 4.0: The Abominable Bride (alias The Special)

[Arcadia]

At least we're discussing something interesting! :p

 

If I were Moriarty ... or whoever is pretending to be Moriarty ... what would I do next? Hmm ... I think I'd go after Sherlock's loved ones. Hope Baker Street hasn't been blown up.

 

What did the Bride do after she "shot" herself? Went out and killed her husband. So yep ... dead people, coming right up.....

[Van Buren Supernova]

But if it means hunting his loved ones, Sherlock casually leaves John and Mary there with ease of mind? And it had been done before.

 

Could it have something to do with 'something in the past'?

 

Or combination of loved one and things in the past?

(Please not third brother)

[Arcadia]

Redbeard. Just sayin'.

[T.o.b.y]

Moriarty was never just a person, I think. He was described as "more than a man" from the start, wasn't he? (On Sherlock, I mean). Moriarty stood for a whole organization. Also for madness, chaos, for completely unrestrained and unscrupulous thrill-seeking, for the utter disregard of all social rules and nothing but contempt for other human beings who are perceived as inferior. He represents the potential end-result of Mycroft's teachings plus Sherlock's nature.

 

So I think (I hope) that Jim is dead, but Moriarty in some form will always be around. As for what he's going to do next, haven't the faintest, but I am sure we'll find out soon enough.

[Arcadia]

Not soon enough to suit me! :d (Next year seems so far away....)

[clavery111]

I still think it means Moriarty is going to do what the Bride did -- "come back" by means of other people taking his place, disguised so well that people will be fooled into thinking it really is him.

 

 --- and what do you think the "exactly" and the "now" mean?

[clavery111]

At least we're discussing something interesting! :P

 

If I were Moriarty ... or whoever is pretending to be Moriarty ... what would I do next? Hmm ... I think I'd go after Sherlock's loved ones. Hope Baker Street hasn't been blown up.

 

What did the Bride do after she "shot" herself? Went out and killed her husband. So yep ... dead people, coming right up.....

 

Yes, murder/mayhem/mystery is coming for sure.  It is weird to think that they ALL have killed other people by now....   They're one mean nest of vipers them lot in 221b

.

[clavery111]

Not soon enough to suit me! :D (Next year seems so far away....)

 

 

I know, right?  It's agony this waiting!

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

 

I still think it means Moriarty is going to do what the Bride did -- "come back" by means of other people taking his place, disguised so well that people will be fooled into thinking it really is him.

--- and what do you think the "exactly" and the "now" mean?

The "now" apparently means "now that I've deduced how The Bride must have fooled people." As for the "exactly," only Sherlock himself knows at this point!

[Boton]

 

Boton - photo of your pair, pretty please?

 

 

and speaking of Irene, I saw Sherlock give *that* look to her feet/shoes.  Did anyone else?

 

 

Mine are these, but in black patent.  I got the 3" heel, but Irene's are higher.  I can't wear a higher heel because my foot is too short to do so! (I'd take a picture of mine, but I've really worn a lot of the red off, and Arcadia would probably kill me for turning this into the shoe thread!   :D

 

http://www.neimanmarcus.com/Christian-Louboutin-Simple-Leather-Red-Sole-Pump-Black/prod157800215_cat43240842__/p.prod?icid=&searchType=EndecaDrivenCat&rte=%252Fcategory.service%253FitemId%253Dcat43240842%2526pageSize%253D30%2526No%253D0%2526Ns%253DPCS_SORT%2526refinements%253D4294937827&eItemId=prod157800215&cmCat=product

 

So, "that look," eh?  I know he was checking *something* out at Irene's place in SiB, but I didn't think he made it as far down as her arches!

 

Why do I even come here?

 

Sooo.... what DID you all think of The Abominable Bride?

 

Seriously, I think it's holding up well.  I've probably watched it 6-8 times since the premiere, and, while it will never be HLV for me, it is one of my favorite episodes.

[Arcadia]

You people do realize that shoes are a great place to hide some Clostridium botulinum, right?  

[clavery111]

Thanks Boton!  Congrats on your bold shoe wearing!  Do they make you feel like Irene when you're wearing them?  Don't answer that if you don't want to... ahem.  And I definitely think Sherlock gave a very *interesting* look to Irene's feet during the living room scene as she removes hers.... just like he gave some interesting facial responses to her er... whip... during the scene in her bedroom.  *cough, cough*.

 

I've watched TAB many times as well and agree - it is a treat and hold ups very well to repeated viewing.  My fav scenes:  Sherlock-Mycroft #2 (where do you get such expressions?)  and the psycho-sex-drug fueled Moriarity-Sherlock scene.  The waterfall scene is actually my least fav one.... it's almost embarrasing IMHO.

[clavery111]

You people do realize that shoes are a great place to hide some Clostridium botulinum, right?  

Not to mention some toe fungus....  ; )

[Boton]

Thanks Boton!  Congrats on your bold shoe wearing!  Do they make you feel like Irene when you're wearing them?  Don't answer that if you don't want to... ahem.  And I definitely think Sherlock gave a very *interesting* look to Irene's feet during the living room scene as she removes hers.... just like he gave some interesting facial responses to her er... whip... during the scene in her bedroom.  *cough, cough*.

 

I've watched TAB many times as well and agree - it is a treat and hold ups very well to repeated viewing.  My fav scenes:  Sherlock-Mycroft #2 (where do you get such expressions?)  and the psycho-sex-drug fueled Moriarity-Sherlock scene.  The waterfall scene is actually my least fav one.... it's almost embarrasing IMHO.

 

Man, now I have to rewatch SiB to see where Sherlock's eyes land.  Maybe the poor guy has a real thing for feet?

 

Yes, I'm almost embarrassed to say, but the shoes do make me feel like Irene.  Not that we are in the same lines of work (although I guess we both sell talent for money....), but they make me hold myself up taller and feel more confident.  I don't wear them on a daily basis, but I've worn them to basically every business meeting I've been to since I bought them.

 

And yeah, the waterfall scene is not my favorite either.  It's beautiful and artistic and metaphoric, but for me, I prefer the padded room scene in HLV as the core of Sherlock's psyche.  I tend to think that everyone's basic core is much more instinctual and limbic, so it makes sense to me that even Sherlock Holmes would have a psychological core that is about life and death and fear and flight rather than a waterfall metaphor.  Although, to be fair, if I were producing a Sherlock Holmes movie/show/book, I would take Holmes and Moriarty to a waterfall at least once.  The temptation is just too strong.

 

ETA: Who knew that the system would kick you out if you used the word "f e t i s h"?

[clavery111]

I think that BC's acting and the directing of Scandal definitely HINT at both a foot f e t i sh and at his liking being beaten by Irene.  Hints only -  but I see it, and I wasn't looking for it.  Hopefully that doesn't make me weird.  I think it adds to the hot-house flower nature of Sherlock, his complexity and singularity.

 

I laughed at the Sherlock "flying" visual at the waterfall the first time I saw it - you know, where it fades in and out of focus briefly - and not in a good way.  I was sure it was BAD technique compounded onto a bad idea of Mofftiss' - until I heard their commentary on how they loved it.  Remind anyone of the Sherlock-Batman moment from the unaired pilot?  Groan.  He's not a super-hero w/ super-powers, Mofftiss... or at least he shouldn't be that, IMHO.

 

 

 

Boton:  Good for you for finding and using a "prop" that boosts your confidence in business meetings etc, and thanks for the heads up on the "f" word and autoblocking here.  Who wooda thought that that word was banned?  Not me, that's who.

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I laughed at the Sherlock "flying" visual at the waterfall the first time I saw it - you know, where it fades in and out of focus briefly - and not in a good way. I was sure it was BAD technique compounded onto a bad idea of Mofftiss' - until I heard their commentary on how they loved it. Remind anyone of the Sherlock-Batman moment from the unaired pilot? Groan. He's not a super-hero w/ super-powers, Mofftiss... or at least he shouldn't be that, IMHO.

I hadn't thought of that parallel till you mentioned it. Like you, I don't care for the scene from the pilot at all. However I'm not so sure about the flying scene.

 

I think the former bothers me for two reasons ... the resemblance to "hero" scenes from old "B" movies and (mostly) the sense that John is idolizing him. (I can certainly understand admiration, but as you say, Sherlock is no super-hero.)

 

The "flying" scene bothers me mostly because the special effect is so cheesy, but that almost seems appropriate. This time it's not someone else's view of Sherlock, it's how he himself is feeling at the moment. So the "Adventures of Superman" feel may be just right. I do find it a bit distracting, though, so that's another negative.

[Arcadia]

So I watched TAB again tonight, and although I like it, I have to admit, if this were the show, with all its Victorian mannerisms, I don't think I would watch it. Or at least, it wouldn't bother me to miss it. Sherlock's not "special" in it; do you know what I mean? Not as charming, somehow. More predictable.

 

It occurred to me the primary purpose of the graveyard scene may have been to separate John and Sherlock. The last we see of John, he's mad at Sherlock and refusing to help. It helps increase the expectation that Sherlock will have to deal with Moriarty by himself; makes John's reappearance more of a surprise - ?

 

ETA: and not once did I think about the d*n shoes!! :p

[Arcadia]

I'm not crazy about "flying Sherlock" either .... but my reason is that it makes no sense to me. It appears to be a metaphor, but for what? He was high, but he bumps to earth and is okay again? And enjoys the trip (pun intended) down?  I hope that's not it; that's not a metaphor, it's a sad joke. But then, I don't have the casual attitude towards drug use that some people do; I'm more of a John Watson in that regard.

 

 

[J.P.]

The fall in TAB always makes me think of Inception. Fall to wake up. But he doesn't wake up while flying (which is obviously fake, which is either bleh or intended this way, making it as ridiculous as the scene in the dungeon)

Then there is that line from Moriarty about the landing being deadly. So even if it is a mirror of the roof scene from TRF and John is there to help him to kick Jim's butt - what's happening here? Sherlock jumps anyway following Jim. To wake up. Did Jim wake up too?

 

Sorry for this stream of consciousness style, obviously I try to think with my fingers.

[Arcadia]

No, I know what you mean ... and also there's that cryptic remark: "Between you and me, John, I always survive a fall." Huh? What does "a fall" represent? Is he immortal? I suppose in one sense he is -- a fictional character that is endlessly resurrected. But is that what they're referring to with that line?

[clavery111]

I took his fall in TAB to be the drug-fueled version of the common dream that we all have of flying,  of being able to fly in our dreams.  In Sherl's case it is turned into superhero version of that common dream, as it would given his nature (and Mofftiss' natures).    ; )    And in his drug dream, rather than die when he lands, he wakes up inside the plane and into modern day once more.  I often die when I fall when having the flying dream --- and wake up in cold existential dread.  Not always though....

 

I agree that it was a treat to see Victorian TAB but that was enough of that for me.  Part of the charms of this show is it being in modern day.  Part of the charm of TAB was it being a drug-dream one-time treat and now we return to the "real" show.

 

In TAB, Mary says to Sherlock and John when they join her in the de-sanctified church that "This is the heart of the conspiracy, the heart of it all".  Wonder if that is Sherlock's brain telling him that Mary will find/has some sort of relation to the "heart of the conspiracy"  ... Moriarity's conspiracy/network?  the North Korean conspiracy of Lord Moran?  Maybe this is the clue that Moffat referred to as being there for us to find?  What do you all think?

[T.o.b.y]

My personal interpretation of Sherlock jumping off the ledge is that after John showed up, he not only remembered that he was basically dreaming but was also finally willing to return to the real world. If you fall from that kind of height in a dream (or do something else that would kill you), you usually wake up, so he used this as an exit mechanism, so to speak.

 

I like the waterfall scene. I know it's very melodramatic, but it's not meant to be real, it's a fantasy of Sherlock's, and as such, I think it has a lot of merit. I can't say my own fantasies are any more refined.

[Arcadia]

In TAB, Mary says to Sherlock and John when they join her in the de-sanctified church that "This is the heart of the conspiracy, the heart of it all".  Wonder if that is Sherlock's brain telling him that Mary will find/has some sort of relation to the "heart of the conspiracy"  ... Moriarity's conspiracy/network?  the North Korean conspiracy of Lord Moran?  Maybe this is the clue that Moffat referred to as being there for us to find?  What do you all think?

Anything's possible! Although I was under the impression that "the clue" was in Series 3, not in the special. Could be both. I do hope Mary's story isn't done; that they have some plan for her character other than shooting the hero.

 

My personal interpretation of Sherlock jumping off the ledge is that after John showed up, he not only remembered that he was basically dreaming but was also finally willing to return to the real world. If you fall from that kind of height in a dream (or do something else that would kill you), you usually wake up, so he used this as an exit mechanism, so to speak.

I like this. I've never had either a falling or a flying dream, so I have no idea how that works, but it makes sense to me.

[clavery111]

what does a dream of flying mean?

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/13/dreams-about-flying_n_891625.html

[Van Buren Supernova]

I am on the side of liking waterfall scene, since I only 'heard' about this, i was thinking, whoa..this is that waterfall, the original final confrontation, a nice nod to the book.

 

And at that moment, he really needs to wake up. He had gone too deep, jumping into a grave, not thinking clear, doubting himself, with Lestrade and Mycroft started changing questionable looks about his sanity.

He needs that, chucking Moriarty into the fall instead of watching him blow his head off but wake up again. It's cheesy, yes, it's a shade of melodramatic :D, he says so :p, but Moriarty think it's fitting for them, and I think so too. Final confrontation with the evil twin.

 

When many things you do (because you think it's right) don't turn up well, it's tempting to look at the other side.

I believe Sherlock is always on the angel side, he chooses that and he knows that, but he never thinks he is one, by willing to push it, break rules to protect the side he choose eventhough it means he couldn't be one. Funny for many, but for me, I think that is selfless.

 

Facing Moriarty is his demon, he needs to do this, because everytime he is down, everytime he falls, Moriarty is always there to tempt him, to kick him. One day Moriarty would win if he let it.

And without that scene, where would we get you are going into the water, short a*se?

 

Time to wake up Sherlock.

And he did (although some of you doubt that)

 

So for me, that is a final confirmation that Moriarty is dead. Dead. Really dead. He says so. And we have that waterfall scene. Final end. Nothing else should top that.

 

But something else is left behind. Like suggested before, maybe the idea of Moriarty lives on, it does in real life. Terrorism, wars, criminal mastermind.

 

Or 'Moriarty' does live on by leaving something behind for Sherlock. It wouldn't surprise me, and I buy it, if Moriarty had planned a final step in case he was dead. Turn this the other way around, maybe Moriarty had 13 possible scenario also, and it happened that the scenario he got is the one involve him being really killed (which I always maintain Sherlock has that scenario to, being dead), a follow up and string of plans kick in. Moriarty might had something planned so that he still can kick Sherlock from the grave, and now Sherlock has found out. But we haven't, what is it? Series 4...!!