Episode 4.3 "The Final Problem"

[BLS_Pro]

 

I want to see the additional material that'll be in the Theatrical release. I'm hoping (against hope) that it fills in the missing gaps pertaining to Eurus' mental problems. Beyond that, I don't think any missing material could dig this episode out of its deficits.

I'm a bit skeptical that the "additional footage" is anything more than a "behind the scenes" type production. Somewhere, I saw something like that, and it said Amanda was narrating. But I can't find any specific information now.

 

 

Unfortunately you are correct:

 

"Special Fathom Features: Join Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman for the Season Four Finale of Sherlock, featuring a 15-minute bonus featurette exclusive to cinemas! In “The Adventures of Mary Watson,” actress Amanda Abbington takes us behind the scenes on her time on Sherlock to discuss her incredible journey as Mary Watson and the thrills and spills of filming some of her most memorable scenes."

 

And THAT means we won't get any connective tissue to explain Eurus and her different personalities and how they relate to one another.  That is one of the BIGGEST plot holes of the episode.  And that is saying something.  The moon doesn't have as many  swiss cheese holes as does the storytelling in this episode.  :(

 

[bedelia1984]

 

1. It's true.

When he said it, we see how his voice breaks with pained expression. It could be a moment of realization that he, indeed, loves her.

Well, most would probably say, how could someone not realizing their own feelings? It's very possible, in fact it happens to a lot of people, and it's even more convincing when it happens to someone like Sherlock. He didn't know it, he tried not to think about it, he tried to fight it, he tried to ignore it he decided not to do anything about it, and he actually never knew that he had it.

 

2. He doesn't love her.

And he understand what it means when he said those words to Molly. How emotionally destructive and cruel it could be and it breaks him. He knows this particular one is really crossing the line if he doesn't mean it, eventhough Mycroft and John can help him explain, there will be impacts to both Sherlock and Molly relationship.

 

 

I love your way of describing this duality. Obviously LB is note perfect in this scene, but BC is so good too, because there are so many emotions at work here and I don't know for sure what any of them were. Can we also talk about the way he touched the coffin before he broke it? (I was a bit worried for him at that point that he was starting to go the way of Eurus- crazy- but he pulled himself together, thankfully.)

 

Also, I was concerned about Molly even before she got that call- why was she so downcast? She's not going to leave Bart's or anything is she?

 

I think the reason why I liked Moriarty so much, and was disappointed that he hadn't really returned, was his humour. Yes, he was creepy, murderous and clearly insane but he was funny.  The other main villains were just creepy and/or mad.  Jim was nasty but his character was allowed flashes of humour and, for me, the humour in this show has always been an important part of the story.

 

 

There is something about Andrew Scott's utterly joyful portrayal of Moriarty which I think was missing from the season as a whole.  In a way, it was a waste to bring him back for those flat on screen clips, when he is such a gifted physical performer.

 

Even with Eurus, we had to be sad for her as well as dislike her, which doesn't make a villain who is as much fun as Moriarty. The actress was great but the character had flaws, and those flaws had a sort of poisonous tree effect on the Holmes family unit. They had so much time to plot this, and yet its unclear what sort of actual 'parenting' the Holmes parents did with Eurus, sure they scold Mycroft for faking her death, but what about what happened next to Sherlock? And his Mum calling him the 'adult'- did have me wondering, has she forgotten that her son is also a junkie! Or does she not know?

 

I got this image as Mycroft as the one who does all the parents dirty work and gets none of the credit.

 

I didn't mind him wimping out about killing that guy- to me he is the classic bureaucrat who will sign off an exceution but doesn't want to get any literal blood on his hands.

 

I'm tempted to say they just went a bit too dark in the tone this year, overall. Mary had some nice moments of levity too- but look how well that worked out for her in the end.

[BLS_Pro]

 

as we all know sherlock has some problems with emotions... and i really dont think that he really knew what theese few seconds and 3 words ment to poor molly...

 

I actually think he does.

He didn't at first, as we see his usual inept understanding about it at the beginning of the call.

And THIS is more of the bad writing and contradiction of previous characterization.  One of the wonderful scenes in Scandal is when Sherlock realizes Molly loves him - and THEN realizes how his words hurt her because of it.  He MAKES the connection way back then - ie YEARS and YEARS ago - is SORRY for it, and provides an emotionally heartfelt apology for the pain he KNEW he caused. 

 

For Sherlock to supposedly NOT recognize it now is not only an inexplicable character REGRESSION for NO REASON, it DESTROYS that previous scene completely.

 

 

he destroys the coffin is his actual frustation about what he had done

Yes.  Like the scene in Scandal, he knows what he has done to her.  But here he has NO ability to stop doing it - to RECTIFY the damage, as he did in Scandal.  THAT is the source of his frustration.  That and his repression of "emotional context" (of which Eurus is just the most extreme example).  It is the breaking of the walls of repression which are why he feels this is 'vivisection'

 

(and why I think all the 'explaining' rather than painful discovery and the BREAKING of those walls BY Sherlock as HE does something to recover his memories and thus feel the pain he repressed is the WORST writing we have gotten through ALL the seasons of Sherlock.  This should have been an episode of IMMENSE catharsis through SHERLOCK'S own actions.  It WASN'T.  He was LED around by the NOSE.  He didn't do ANYTHING.  Everything was done for/to him or was just casually 'oh I remember now'.  The IMMENSE dramatic potential was PISSED away - like Mag pissing in their fireplace)!!!

 

I have no problem with Sherlock saying "I love you" to her.  And I am certain it is true - just as it is true he loves John.  There are all sorts of love and all sorts of depths to it.  I love you, for him in this context, doesn't have to be limited to romantic love.

 

Everyone seems to be under the false impression that Molly is "the last person [sherlock] thinks of".  Even John falsely believes this, saying it explicitly.  But time and again, we see it proven false.  In this case, Sherlock immediately proves is false with the ringing of a door bell.

[Boton]

Here's a question for you all.  I'm really undecided on this.

 

Did you get the impression that John moved back into 221B, or do you think he maintained a separate home for Rosie?  In the final montage, Sherlock and John are in John and Mary's house a couple of times, especially to start the "Miss You" DVD.  There is the scene that will launch a thousand Parentlock fics where Sherlock is handing Rosie to John as he walks in the door of 221B, but I read that on the first two viewings as Sherlock and Mrs. Hudson pitching in to help mind Rosie while John is at work.  I asked Mr. Boton, and he noted, "of course, John will raise Rosie in their own house and visit Sherlock."  That's what I felt like last night; that John would be a frequent visitor to 221B but not a resident.  And that kind of jibes with ACD canon.

 

But today I see a lot of people saying that they are living together, so I was wondering if I missed something?

[bedelia1984]

Here's a question for you all.  I'm really undecided on this.

 

Did you get the impression that John moved back into 221B, or do you think he maintained a separate home for Rosie?  In the final montage, Sherlock and John are in John and Mary's house a couple of times, especially to start the "Miss You" DVD.  There is the scene that will launch a thousand Parentlock fics where Sherlock is handing Rosie to John as he walks in the door of 221B, but I read that on the first two viewings as Sherlock and Mrs. Hudson pitching in to help mind Rosie while John is at work.  I asked Mr. Boton, and he noted, "of course, John will raise Rosie in their own house and visit Sherlock."  That's what I felt like last night; that John would be a frequent visitor to 221B but not a resident.  And that kind of jibes with ACD canon.

 

But today I see a lot of people saying that they are living together, so I was wondering if I missed something?

 

I though exactly as you did, and was surprised to see some people thinking he moved back to 221B- chemical lab in the kitchen and all. It doesn't seem like a young child lives there. And also John might like to raise her in the home he shared with Mary.

[BLS_Pro]

 

I did catch the sister in the previous episodes. It is all a game but i still don't understand what exactly her motivations were in orchestrating this game at the end.

"Murderous jealousy" was her issue.  From the beginning, she wanted Sherlock to play with HER.  He didn't.  So she eliminated the competition (Redbeard).  But that didn't get her the result she wanted.  She was still alone.  Sherlock still didn't play with her.  So she became murderously angry at Sherlock for not playing with her under any conditions.  Her rage turned to him for denying her - for not coming to her room.

 

The Saw "Morality Maze" was just her trying to get Sherlock to play games with her now - the only games she is interested in and the type of games Sherlock is interested in ("The Game is on").  That was her motivation.  To get her little brother to play with her - to save her from isolated and alone (metaphorically and literally).

 

The problem is that the writers didn't do a good job of explaining HOW the different forms of her personality interacted/worked.  Her foundational motivation is clear (as is the linkage between her childhood motivation and her current motivation).  But SHE isn't explained.  And she NEEDED to be explained.

[Arcadia]

Okay, so I'm trying to figure something out.
 
Five years ago, Eurus met Moriarty and at that point she "seemed to wake up", according to someone in the show. (The governor?)
 
She wanted to meet him because he was obsessed with Sherlock.
 
Mycroft was using her intelligence to help figure things out, so that's why he indulged her from time to time. (Really, Mycroft? You were that stupid? Ah well, it is what it is. )

 

So what was the outcome of their meeting? Let's see, she got him to make some videos, so I'm guessing she's supposed to be behind the "Miss me?" video -- it's never said for sure, is it? And why did she broadcast the video? For now, I'll assume that it's so Sherlock would be around to play with her when she was ready, and not dead in Eastern Europe.

 

But did she influence Moriarty into killing himself? Are we supposed to believe Jim knew what her long-range plan was? Or was he the one influencing her? Was meeting him the catalyst for her deciding to arrange a game with Sherlock? I thought I understood this at one point, but it's slipped away from me.

 

And now I'm starting to forget why I thought this was such an important point in the first place. :( *sigh* Already time for another rewatch.

 

Some random thoughts:

 

Why did Euros tempt John with the text messages? How did that fit into her overall scheme?

 

Did everyone notice they were running out of a building named "Rathbone" at the end? Sweet.

 

I don't think Eurus arranged all this just so she could get a hug from Sherlock, as some people have been suggesting. I haven't really developed this line of thinking yet, but I think she's supposed to represent what Sherlock was trying to become when we first met him; so divorced from emotion that he was incapable of understanding it. But he ended up going another way, and I think that was the point they were trying to make ... Eurus was lost beyond retrieval because she couldn't feel.  Mycroft became the lesser man in the end because he did the "logical" thing and locked her away (and creepily enough, used her as a resource. )  But Sherlock felt compassion, and however briefly, made a connection with her. But I don't think she was looking for that, because I don't think she knew that it was possible. There's something missing from this train of thought, but that's where I'm heading so far.

 

I get why Sherlock smashed up the coffin after his agonizing conversation with Molly. (Oh, Moftiss, that conversation was just cruel!) But I'm not sure about his reaction after, why he lapsed into a sort of stupor afterwards. I get that he felt bad about doing that to Molly, but not why it almost rendered him dysfunctional. Thoughts?

 

By the way, I just read that scene wasn't even in the script until the last minute. Which means they originally had no intention of any kind of coda for Molly, other than being a nurse to Rosie and Sherlock. Shame on them. Glad they came to their senses.

 

Once you know that the guard is Sherlock in disguise, it's funny, because on rewatch it's obvious, he's standing right there behind the governor in plain sight. And I didn't pick up on his Scottish accent the first time around. For some reason that just tickles me. As did Mycroft turning out to be the one in disguise, I loved that call back to TEH.

 

Okay, I can see that you all are busily adding new posts as I fumble my way through this, so I'm going to stop now and go see what you all have been saying!

 

 

[BLS_Pro]

But did she influence Moriarty into killing himself? Are we supposed to believe Jim knew what her long-range plan was? Or was he the one influencing her?

I don't think she influenced Moriarty into killing himself.  I think Eurus saw the likely outcome.  Moriarty may or may not have agreed with her conclusion.  But to get the information he wanted on Sherlock, we know Jim was willing to go through a lot (he accepted his incarceration/torture with Mycroft to get information about Sherlock from him).  So Jim was willing to humor Eurus (give her the videos she wanted - and, if she turned out to be right, to enjoy the idea of getting revenge on Sherlock by having his sister force him to kill his brother) to get more info about Sherlock.  It didn't cost him anything.

 

The real question is why "Redbeard" would be something Jim would find useful.  How exactly did it help him with what he did?  It doesn't seem to have anything to do with what Jim did in all his dealings with Sherlock.

 

 

Was meeting him the catalyst for her deciding to arrange a game with Sherlock?

I think her discovery of the Napoleon of Crime, whom she could influence because of their shared interest, is the thing she needed to gain control of her situation and Sherrinford.  She needed his considerable powers in the outside world - combined with her own powers inside - to achieve her ends of 'escape'.

 

More to come....

 

[bedelia1984]

 

 

as we all know sherlock has some problems with emotions... and i really dont think that he really knew what theese few seconds and 3 words ment to poor molly...

 

I actually think he does.

He didn't at first, as we see his usual inept understanding about it at the beginning of the call.

And THIS is more of the bad writing and contradiction of previous characterization.  One of the wonderful scenes in Scandal is when Sherlock realizes Molly loves him - and THEN realizes how his words hurt her because of it.  He MAKES the connection way back then - ie YEARS and YEARS ago - is SORRY for it, and provides an emotionally heartfelt apology for the pain he KNEW he caused. 

 

For Sherlock to supposedly NOT recognize it now is not only an inexplicable character REGRESSION for NO REASON, it DESTROYS that previous scene completely.

 

 

There is a problem here, because Sherlock recognises Molly from the 'I love you' (and also a bit on instinct I think), so you would think that would inform his approach to the conversation. But, to me it is as if he can't quite process the information, or hasn't got a grasp on how she loves him- or else this is something he is actively choosing to ignore, something he has blocked out, just like his friend's death, and Eurus is confronting him quite forcefully with it.

 

Okay, so I'm trying to figure something out.

 

Five years ago, Eurus met Moriarty and at that point she "seemed to wake up", according to someone in the show. (The governor?)

 

She wanted to meet him because he was obsessed with Sherlock.

 

Mycroft was using her intelligence to help figure things out, so that's why he indulged her from time to time. (Really, Mycroft? You were that stupid? Ah well, it is what it is. )

 

So what was the outcome of their meeting? Let's see, she got him to make some videos, so I'm guessing she's supposed to be behind the "Miss me?" video -- it's never said for sure, is it? And why did she broadcast the video? For now, I'll assume that it's so Sherlock would be around to play with her when she was ready, and not dead in Eastern Europe.

 

 

Yeah, Mycroft comes out of that whole situation looking like the village idiot. It is what it is Making all those videos and everything seems like so much work for the two of them, doesn't it, for very little pay off? When there is no deeper reason for them working together than messing with Sherlock's head. Also: hate to say it, but wasn't Moriarty's plan for Sherlock to be dead three years ago? Were the videos just an insurance plan so if he wasn't dead he'd at least be irritated?

 

I get why Sherlock smashed up the coffin after his agonizing conversation with Molly. (Oh, Moftiss, that conversation was just cruel!) But I'm not sure about his reaction after, why he lapsed into a sort of stupor afterwards. I get that he felt bad about doing that to Molly, but not why it almost rendered him dysfunctional. Thoughts?

 

Like I was saying above, I think he'd maybe been confronted by something he'd buried- but its hard to tell whether those were his feelings or hers that he didn't want to address. 

 

By the way, I just read that scene wasn't even in the script until the last minute. Which means they originally had no intention of any kind of coda for Molly, other than being a nurse to Rosie and Sherlock. Shame on them.   Glad they came to their senses.

 

 

That makes me really annoyed, because they had already shamefully under-used Louise as it is! And they stiffed us any kind of closure scene with her and Sherlock afterwards too. I was ready to down tools on my campaign for a female writer (or at least a man that likes to write women and does it well) but it looks like i'll have to dust off my pointy purple hat once again and go out and look for it in season 5 (fingers crossed)

 

I can't help but think that they didn't show what happened next between Molly and Sherlock because the writers themselves are not sure where that is going.

[J.P.]

Pseud, re the open ending: how is your interpretation of the scene between Molly and Sherlock then?

[BLS_Pro]

 

 

Why did Euros tempt John with the text messages? How did that fit into her overall scheme?

Presumably for the same reason she played his therapist: to get information on him (and his relation to Sherlock).  Ultimately, it is Eurus trying to learn why Sherlock would play with HIM but not her.

 

 

 

I don't think Eurus arranged all this just so she could get a hug from Sherlock, as some people have been suggesting.

I do believe that was essentially her motivation - the "murderous jealousy".  She was alone and sought love from Sherlock.  But she never got it.  And that's supposed to explain "why" she became what she became - the lack of love from someone she apparently loved.

 

I think she's supposed to represent what Sherlock was trying to become when we first met him; so divorced from emotion that he was incapable of understanding it. But he ended up going another way, and I think that was the point they were trying to make ... Eurus was lost beyond retrieval because she couldn't feel.

I think you're headed in the right direction - but I think there's more to it than you identify.  I think the writers definitely view Eurus as an alternative version of Sherlock.  What is the difference between them though?  Love.  Sherlock had a best friend then - and has a best friend now.  It is the lack of such a love which is the difference.  Watson "saved" Sherlock BY being his best friend.  Eurus wasn't saved BECAUSE she had no such friend - certainly not the one she wanted: Sherlock.

And I think the point is that Eurus is not lost beyond retrieval.  Sherlock is NOW returning that love.  He did and has saved her (rather than abandoning her, as Mycroft was again ready to do given her complete shutting down at the end).

 

But I don't think she was looking for that, because I don't think she knew that it was possible.

The child version of herself WAS looking for it.  She wanted help.  She was desperate for a connection.  She KNEW it was possible because she'd seen - twice now - that Sherlock had it.

[Arcadia]

Yes, it was disappointing and apparently a lot of other viewers felt the same way:

 

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-01-16/sherlock-records-its-lowest-ever-overnight-audience-with-59m-tuning-into-series-four-finale

 

Let's hope that Moffat and Gatiss learn that there is such a thing as too much of an emotional roller coaster.

 

I don't think those numbers can reflect how viewers felt about this episode; if they didn't watch it, how did they know what to think of it? Unless they all tuned in for 10 minutes then changed the channel, and that got counted as "not watching." Which is possible, I suppose.

 

Probably it's more a reflection of how they felt about the first episode!

 

Here's a question for you all.  I'm really undecided on this.

 

Did you get the impression that John moved back into 221B, or do you think he maintained a separate home for Rosie?  In the final montage, Sherlock and John are in John and Mary's house a couple of times, especially to start the "Miss You" DVD.  There is the scene that will launch a thousand Parentlock fics where Sherlock is handing Rosie to John as he walks in the door of 221B, but I read that on the first two viewings as Sherlock and Mrs. Hudson pitching in to help mind Rosie while John is at work.  I asked Mr. Boton, and he noted, "of course, John will raise Rosie in their own house and visit Sherlock."  That's what I felt like last night; that John would be a frequent visitor to 221B but not a resident.  And that kind of jibes with ACD canon.

 

But today I see a lot of people saying that they are living together, so I was wondering if I missed something?

 

No, IMO it's just people seeing what they want to see. But I do think that montage was deliberately presented in such a way that it's not too much of a leap to see it any way you want. For example, if you're a Sherlolly fan, I note they also included a shot of Molly walking through the flat looking perfectly at home and beaming with happiness.

 

 

I did catch the sister in the previous episodes. It is all a game but i still don't understand what exactly her motivations were in orchestrating this game at the end.

"Murderous jealousy" was her issue.  From the beginning, she wanted Sherlock to play with HER.  He didn't.  So she eliminated the competition (Redbeard).  But that didn't get her the result she wanted.  She was still alone.  Sherlock still didn't play with her.  So she became murderously angry at Sherlock for not playing with her under any conditions.  Her rage turned to him for denying her - for not coming to her room.

 

The Saw "Morality Maze" was just her trying to get Sherlock to play games with her now - the only games she is interested in and the type of games Sherlock is interested in ("The Game is on").  That was her motivation.  To get her little brother to play with her - to save her from isolated and alone (metaphorically and literally).

 

The problem is that the writers didn't do a good job of explaining HOW the different forms of her personality interacted/worked.  Her foundational motivation is clear (as is the linkage between her childhood motivation and her current motivation).  But SHE isn't explained.  And she NEEDED to be explained.

 

 

Hmmm. Yeah, okay, that sounds a lot like what I was thinking before but hadn't really grasped yet. Although "jealousy" seems like a strong word for someone who appears not to be able to distinguish one emotion from another, doesn't it? Maybe it's not jealousy so much as a compulsive need to control everyone. It seems to be a family trait. Something more complex than an ordinary emotion, at any rate. I found her genuinely chilling.

 

Does she really need to be explained? I'm not sure; I think we've all got enough vague impressions of personality disorders to accept that she's simply batsh*t crazy and will literally do anything, anything at all. She's Sherlock without a conscience, or even an understanding of what a conscience is. She's bored and she wants someone to play with.

 

Don't know. As I said earlier, still processing this one, all my ideas on it are still half-formed. I think that's why I liked it better the second time I watched it ... there's more going on here than I realized the first time around. Also I again, as in T6T, had trouble understanding the dialog. Whereas in TLD I got (nearly) every word the first time around. What's that about? :(

 

Stylistically, I thought this episode was about halfway between T6T and TLD ... better looking than the former, but not as inventive as the latter. It will serve.

[BLS_Pro]

 

 

Did everyone notice they were running out of a building named "Rathbone" at the end? Sweet.

I missed that detail.  That's cute. 

[BLS_Pro]

On a totally different point entirely, if one small child evidently abducted another and refused to say where he was, wouldn't the police and social services be involved straight away?  Would she still be at home and able to burn down the house?

Yup.  This was another of the COUNTLESS, MASSIVE plot holes carelessly strewn throughout this episode.  All in the service of tricking the AUDIENCE -alone- at the cost of the plot and characterization and believability.

[Pseudonym]

Pseud, re the open ending: how is your interpretation of the scene between Molly and Sherlock then?

Do you mean the 'I love you' scene? I take it as Sherlock doing what had to be done in order to save her, using all of his acting skills to make it sound as realistic as possible. I don't think he meant it in the slightest (other than platonically), and she knew he didn't mean it, but she wanted to hear it said just so she could pretend to believe it for that fraction of a moment. There is no way, in my opinion at least, that it was real.

If you mean the little snippet at the end of Molly coming into the flat, I think she was just coming by to visit, doesn't mean anything.

[Boton]

I'm going to chime in and say I mostly agree with Pseud.

 

In the "I love you scene," I think it was a very effective act the first time he said it, but that he may have realized that he loves Molly as a friend the second time out and conveyed that a bit in his voice. I don't think he means romantic love even a little bit. When she visits at the end, I think it is just a visit, but that we can take away from it that Molly is not irreparably damaged by the whole thing.

[Pseudonym]

Agreed. I think they had to have a little Molly cameo at the end to show that although things would have been awkward she does get over it and they are still friends.

 

This discussion concludes here: http://www.sherlockforum.com/forum/topic/3549-episode-43-the-final-problem/?p=114320

[Bankomas]

Hi everyone!

 

I am intersted if I am the only one who wished at the end Sherlock would help Eurus escape from Sherrinford while watching "The Final Problem"? Especially the scenes when Sherlock started visiting Eurus in her cell to play the violin together. I am a bit disapointed it didn't happen.

I understand that Eurus is dangerous. But I also feel very sorry for her. Being a little girl, not aware how to cope with her intellect, sent away from home at an early age, and kept imprisoned for the entire life. Probably she felt betrayed by her family. Hard to imagine how she felt.

I mean Sherlock helped Irene Adler escape death and set her free. Whilst she is a very dangerous person as well. Furthermore, Eurus is family. I hoped Sherlock would get her out of Sherrinford and help her rehabilitate. I am a bit relieved by the fact that the family began visitting Eurus. But still. 

I expressed my view on another forum and found not one ally. Does anyone feel the same? Or am I nutts? Please share your thoughts.

[Arcadia]

Ugh, I really need to go find a life. Oh well, this is more fun.
 

I think her discovery of the Napoleon of Crime, whom she could influence because of their shared interest, is the thing she needed to gain control of her situation and Sherrinford.  She needed his considerable powers in the outside world - combined with her own powers inside - to achieve her ends of 'escape'.

 
Ah. Yes. Good thinking. Oh Mycroft, really, how could you be that stupid? :P
 

There is a problem here, because Sherlock recognises Molly from the 'I love you' (and also a bit on instinct I think), so you would think that would inform his approach to the conversation. But, to me it is as if he can't quite process the information, or hasn't got a grasp on how she loves him- or else this is something he is actively choosing to ignore, something he has blocked out, just like his friend's death, and Eurus is confronting him quite forcefully with it.

I like this, because that in fact sounds in character ... I can easily see how Sherlock would simply refuse to come to grips with his feelings about Molly. In the previous episode, that seemed to be how he handles his feelings about Irene; just pretend he doesn't have them.

Eurus seems to have had access to an endless amount of information about Sherlock. But I suppose in this internet age, we're supposed to find that more believable than it might have been at one time. But to be able to divine his conflicted feelings about a woman she'd never even met ... I'm beginning to think Mycroft babbled to her more than he will ever admit. Idiot. :P
 

 

By the way, I just read that scene wasn't even in the script until the last minute. Which means they originally had no intention of any kind of coda for Molly, other than being a nurse to Rosie and Sherlock. Shame on them.   Glad they came to their senses.

That makes me really annoyed, because they had already shamefully under-used Louise as it is! And they stiffed us any kind of closure scene with her and Sherlock afterwards too. I was ready to down tools on my campaign for a female writer (or at least a man that likes to write women and does it well) but it looks like i'll have to dust off my pointy purple hat once again and go out and look for it in season 5 (fingers crossed)
 
I can't help but think that they didn't show what happened next between Molly and Sherlock because the writers themselves are not sure where that is going.

 

 
I think they just want to leave as many open doors as they can, without actually having a cliffhanger. Although I'm dying to know if Mummy went "absolutely monstrous" on Mycroft.  :D
 

 

Why did Euros tempt John with the text messages? How did that fit into her overall scheme?

Presumably for the same reason she played his therapist: to get information on him (and his relation to Sherlock).  Ultimately, it is Eurus trying to learn why Sherlock would play with HIM but not her.

I don't think Eurus arranged all this just so she could get a hug from Sherlock, as some people have been suggesting.

I do believe that was essentially her motivation - the "murderous jealousy".  She was alone and sought love from Sherlock.  But she never got it.  And that's supposed to explain "why" she became what she became - the lack of love from someone she apparently loved.
 

I think she's supposed to represent what Sherlock was trying to become when we first met him; so divorced from emotion that he was incapable of understanding it. But he ended up going another way, and I think that was the point they were trying to make ... Eurus was lost beyond retrieval because she couldn't feel.

I think you're headed in the right direction - but I think there's more to it than you identify.  I think the writers definitely view Eurus as an alternative version of Sherlock.  What is the difference between them though?  Love.  Sherlock had a best friend then - and has a best friend now.  It is the lack of such a love which is the difference.  Watson "saved" Sherlock BY being his best friend.  Eurus wasn't saved BECAUSE she had no such friend - certainly not the one she wanted: Sherlock.

And I think the point is that Eurus is not lost beyond retrieval.  Sherlock is NOW returning that love.  He did and has saved her (rather than abandoning her, as Mycroft was again ready to do given her complete shutting down at the end).

But I don't think she was looking for that, because I don't think she knew that it was possible.

The child version of herself WAS looking for it.  She wanted help.  She was desperate for a connection.  She KNEW it was possible because she'd seen - twice now - that Sherlock had it.

 

Okay, thanks, that all makes sense to me. At this rate I'm going to have to upgrade my rating of this episode again!

I have a new theory: this IS the two seasons (4 and 5) that Moftiss claims to have plotted out a few years ago. But when it came down to it, they didn't  have enough ideas to fill six episodes, or they lost interest, or "something" came up that we'll never know. Because both Eps 1 & 3 both feel rushed to me. Mary's killed off before we get to know her. We never see Sherlock's reaction to learning he had a sister (and he actually spent an evening with her!). Mycroft is suddenly diminished, not gradually. Stuff like that ... none of it strictly critical, but would have fleshed out the characters more if we'd gotten to see them. But I just get the feeling they had more story than properly fit into three episodes; but the plots weren't strong enough to fill six. If I'm evenly remotely correct, I think they made a wise decision. Although maybe a fourth episode (or a longer finale) would have been a good idea.
 
Man, I don't envy scriptwriters. That has got to be a hard, hard job to do well. And everyone's a critic! ;)

[bedelia1984]

 

Eurus seems to have had access to an endless amount of information about Sherlock. But I suppose in this internet age, we're supposed to find that more believable than it might have been at one time. But to be able to divine his conflicted feelings about a woman she'd never even met ... I'm beginning to think Mycroft babbled to her more than he will ever admit. Idiot. :P

 

We shouldn't forget that Moriarty had access to Molly too- and could have fed Eurus the relevant information. I just watched that brilliant scene in the lab with them all again, I'm sure he knew they were at least closer than Sherlock is to most women- actually you could read Sherlock's behaviour to Jim from IT (!) as a bit territorial, and maybe Moriarty did so.

 

You know, half of me would have loved for Moriarty to be the one to play that card (placing a threat on Molly's head), especially as he actually went out with Molly in TGG- it would have been so creepy! And really, having seen the convoluted plot that developed around Eurus being hidden, I'm not sure the fake death would have been more ridiculous. Though, granted, for Sherlock, that trick is repetitive.

 

I wondered for a moment whether Moriarty told Eurus not to kill Molly because he liked her a little bit. Yes, welcome to my world, where everyone is a fan of Molly Hooper.

[Arcadia]

Hi Bankomas! First of all, welcome to the forum!

 

 

Hi everyone!

 

I am intersted if I am the only one who wished at the end Sherlock would help Eurus escape from Sherrinford while watching "The Final Problem"? Especially the scenes when Sherlock started visiting Eurus in her cell to play the violin together. I am a bit disapointed it didn't happen.

I understand that Eurus is dangerous. But I also feel very sorry for her. Being a little girl, not aware how to cope with her intellect, sent away from home at an early age, and kept imprisoned for the entire life. Probably she felt betrayed by her family. Hard to imagine how she felt.

I mean Sherlock helped Irene Adler escape death and set her free. Whilst she is a very dangerous person as well. Furthermore, Eurus is family. I hoped Sherlock would get her out of Sherrinford and help her rehabilitate. I am a bit relieved by the fact that the family began visitting Eurus. But still. 

I expressed my view on another forum and found not one ally. Does anyone feel the same? Or am I nutts? Please share your thoughts.

 

 

Yep, you're completely nuts. KIDDING, kidding, just kidding!!! xd

 

I feel sorry for her too, she didn't ask to be born the way she was, and Mycroft certainly didn't help matters by hiding her away. But I think they tried to make the point that she's simply too dangerous to run free; even if she's loved, she's still a murderous, unprincipled, psychopathic genius. Personally, I don't think there is any hope for someone like that; the best you can do is treat them humanely and keep them safe. It's very sad. In fact, that's a surprisingly dark tragedy to inflict on a show like this, which is usually so light-hearted. And visiting her like that; that's a huge sacrifice on Sherlock's part. That takes a big heart. It's not easy dealing with the mentally ill.
 

[Janine M. Adler]

Am I the only one who thinks it is kinda Shutter Island thing, and the real essence of the show is lost here? I liked only the begining before the explosion and the ending where John and Sherlock solving crimes again. These scenes seem real to me, and rest of the episode looks like a mind palace thing, maybe like Sherlock's alter ego. I really want to forget the episode, except the last few minutes and the violin. 3/10 for the last few minutes.

 

I am really sad. I had my hopes up too much. Maybe I am the one who don't like it?

[Arcadia]

We shouldn't forget that Moriarty had access to Molly too- and could have fed Eurus the relevant information. I just watched that brilliant scene in the lab with them all again, I'm sure he knew they were at least closer than Sherlock is to most women- actually you could read Sherlock's behaviour to Jim from IT (!) as a bit territorial, and maybe Moriarty did so.

 

You know, half of me would have loved for Moriarty to be the one to play that card (placing a threat on Molly's head, especially as he actually went out with Molly in TGG- it would have been so creepy! And really, having seen the convoluted plot that developed around Eurus being hidden, I'm not sure the fake death would have been more ridiculous. Though, granted, for Sherlock, that trick is repetitive.

 

I wondered for a moment whether Moriarty told Eurus not to kill Molly because he liked her a little bit. Yes, welcome to my world, where everyone is a fan of Molly Hooper.

 

Aw, leave me a little something from TRF to believe in! :D I've always bought into the theory that Sherlock's trick only worked because Jim didn't perceive Sherlock's affection for/trust in Molly. So if that's right, Jim didn't have anything of importance to relay to Eurus about Molly, because Jim never realized she mattered.

 

Anyway, I always prefer to blame Mycroft. :P

[bedelia1984]

Am I the only one who thinks it is kinda Shutter Island thing, and the real essence of the show is lost here? I liked only the begining before the explosion and the ending where John and Sherlock solving crimes again. These scenes seem real to me, and rest of the episode looks like a mind palace thing, maybe like Sherlock's alter ego. I really want to forget the episode, except the last few minutes and the violin. 3/10 for the last few minutes.

 

I am really sad. I had my hopes up too much. Maybe I am the one who don't like it?

 

I think a lot of people didn't like it or at least were a little let down. I felt that way about the first one.

 

For me, a lot of what saved this one was seeing it in a cinema with a live audience. But I think if I watched it at home I might not have enjoyed it as much.

 

In my opinion this is probably the most flawed season of the show, even though there was much in it that I liked. The episodes just did not feel cohesive and the overall look and pacing of the show was all over the place- sometimes wonderful, and sometimes not so much.

 

I think the huge waits between seasons are starting to take their toll.  Expectations are raised too high for the rare event that is an episode. 

 

Really sorry you feel sad, I hope it may help to revisit your favourites.

[BLS_Pro]

 

There is a problem here, because Sherlock recognises Molly from the 'I love you' (and also a bit on instinct I think), so you would think that would inform his approach to the conversation. But, to me it is as if he can't quite process the information, or hasn't got a grasp on how she loves him- or else this is something he is actively choosing to ignore, something he has blocked out, just like his friend's death, and Eurus is confronting him quite forcefully with it.

Oh I definitely think it is a problem.  Given previous characterization in relation to Molly, it can't be that he doesn't process the info or hasn't got a grasp on her loving him - for the reasons I already identified.  Yet that is indeed the way they first begin the scene.

 

 

 

Yeah, Mycroft comes out of that whole situation looking like the village idiot. It is what it is

I think they destroyed the characterization of Mycroft in this episode.  He was just contradictory all over the place.  Doesn't want innocent blood on his hands in one scene and casually wants to kill innocent girl on the plane in the next.  John making all the clever deductions rather than Mycroft in the Gov's office.  They made someone we KNOW is demonstrably smart into "the village idiot".