Episode 4.3 "The Final Problem"

[bedelia1984]

 

We shouldn't forget that Moriarty had access to Molly too- and could have fed Eurus the relevant information. I just watched that brilliant scene in the lab with them all again, I'm sure he knew they were at least closer than Sherlock is to most women- actually you could read Sherlock's behaviour to Jim from IT (!) as a bit territorial, and maybe Moriarty did so.

 

You know, half of me would have loved for Moriarty to be the one to play that card (placing a threat on Molly's head, especially as he actually went out with Molly in TGG- it would have been so creepy! And really, having seen the convoluted plot that developed around Eurus being hidden, I'm not sure the fake death would have been more ridiculous. Though, granted, for Sherlock, that trick is repetitive.

 

I wondered for a moment whether Moriarty told Eurus not to kill Molly because he liked her a little bit. Yes, welcome to my world, where everyone is a fan of Molly Hooper.

 

Aw, leave me a little something from TRF to believe in! :D I've always bought into the theory that Sherlock's trick only worked because Jim didn't perceive Sherlock's affection for/trust in Molly. So if that's right, Jim didn't have anything of importance to relay to Eurus about Molly, because Jim never realized she mattered.

 

Anyway, I always prefer to blame Mycroft. :P

 

 

I want to be nice and leave it to you... but, doesn't it make more sense that Moriarty knew everything, including how Molly would help him, and thus made all the 'Miss me' tapes for after his demise? Otherwise, why make them?  :D

 

Of course, I am as in the dark as you are, but watching the way Moriarty is eyeing Sherlock, he is taking absolutely everything in. Even playing such a questionable date for Molly, he probably knew Sherlock wouldn't be able to resist picking on him. And then you've got to ask, why did he choose Molly as his way in to Sherlock's life to begin with?

 

Poor Mycroft. I can see him now in his lovely house, watching sentimental black and white movies and mouthing all the words along with them. Quite a catch you've got there, Lady Smallwood!

[Arcadia]

Am I the only one who thinks it is kinda Shutter Island thing, and the real essence of the show is lost here? I liked only the begining before the explosion and the ending where John and Sherlock solving crimes again. These scenes seem real to me, and rest of the episode looks like a mind palace thing, maybe like Sherlock's alter ego. I really want to forget the episode, except the last few minutes and the violin. 3/10 for the last few minutes.

 

I am really sad. I had my hopes up too much. Maybe I am the one who don't like it?

That's exactly how I felt about it the first time I saw it. But I rewatched it this morning, and saw a whole different side of it, and now I'm pretty okay with it. Sad that it wasn't their best effort ... I would have loved to see them go out on a high ... but it has more nuances in it than I realized at first, and right now I'm content with it.

 

So with any luck, maybe something similar will happen for you? Hope so! I know what it feels like when something you love disappoints you. Maybe just give it another chance or two first.

[Janine M. Adler]

 

Am I the only one who thinks it is kinda Shutter Island thing, and the real essence of the show is lost here? I liked only the begining before the explosion and the ending where John and Sherlock solving crimes again. These scenes seem real to me, and rest of the episode looks like a mind palace thing, maybe like Sherlock's alter ego. I really want to forget the episode, except the last few minutes and the violin. 3/10 for the last few minutes.

 

I am really sad. I had my hopes up too much. Maybe I am the one who don't like it?

 

I think a lot of people didn't like it or at least were a little let down. I felt that way about the first one.

 

For me, a lot of what saved this one was seeing it in a cinema with a live audience. But I think if I watched it at home I might not have enjoyed it as much.

 

In my opinion this is probably the most flawed season of the show, even though there was much in it that I liked. The episodes just did not feel cohesive and the overall look and pacing of the show was all over the place- sometimes wonderful, and sometimes not so much.

 

I think the huge waits between seasons are starting to take their toll.  Expectations are raised too high for the rare event that is an episode. 

 

Really sorry you feel sad, I hope it may help to revisit your favourites.

 

It has real potential, if they could made it out. There are some killer moments, but overall the episode feels very cheap. The gorgeousness of the editing is gone, so did the story. Look at the explosion, it looks so cheap. And how on the earth they remained uninjured jumping through a window? I guess the writers and the editors were bored out of their minds, maybe the whole team of Sherlock. They made this episode just to finish the show off. It looks like Motfiss had lost their real interest in this show. But the PR got our hopes up too much. Television history? Bleh!!!

 

Everything would work better if they changed the whole Morality Maze idea into a series of cases or something like that, something like TGG or TRF. Maybe they would chase around London to find Eurus and she set a set of games for them, instead of that unrealistic asylum take over and dull grey wall sets. Ah, I need to write a fix it fanfic now.

 

I loved the show too much, even the worst episodes, but this episode is not worth for another watch.

[Alex the Dabbler]

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks it is kinda Shutter Island thing, and the real essence of the show is lost here? I liked only the begining before the explosion and the ending where John and Sherlock solving crimes again. These scenes seem real to me, and rest of the episode looks like a mind palace thing, maybe like Sherlock's alter ego. I really want to forget the episode, except the last few minutes and the violin. 3/10 for the last few minutes.

 

I am really sad. I had my hopes up too much. Maybe I am the one who don't like it?

 

I think a lot of people didn't like it or at least were a little let down. I felt that way about the first one.

 

For me, a lot of what saved this one was seeing it in a cinema with a live audience. But I think if I watched it at home I might not have enjoyed it as much.

 

In my opinion this is probably the most flawed season of the show, even though there was much in it that I liked. The episodes just did not feel cohesive and the overall look and pacing of the show was all over the place- sometimes wonderful, and sometimes not so much.

 

I think the huge waits between seasons are starting to take their toll.  Expectations are raised too high for the rare event that is an episode. 

 

Really sorry you feel sad, I hope it may help to revisit your favourites.

 

It has real potential, if they could made it out. There are some killer moments, but overall the episode feels very cheap. The gorgeousness of the editing is gone, so did the story. Look at the explosion, it looks so cheap. And how on the earth they remained uninjured jumping through a window? I guess the writers and the editors were bored out of their minds, maybe the whole team of Sherlock. They made this episode just to finish the show off. It looks like Motfiss had lost their real interest in this show. But the PR got our hopes up too much. Television history? Bleh!!!

 

Everything would work better if they changed the whole Morality Maze idea into a series of cases or something like that, something like TGG or TRF. Maybe they would chase around London to find Eurus and she set a set of games for them, instead of that unrealistic asylum take over and dull grey wall sets. Ah, I need to write a fix it fanfic now.

 

I loved the show too much, even the worst episodes, but this episode is not worth for another watch.

 

 

I get why Sherlock smashed up the coffin after his agonizing conversation with Molly. (Oh, Moftiss, that conversation was just cruel!) But I'm not sure about his reaction after, why he lapsed into a sort of stupor afterwards. I get that he felt bad about doing that to Molly, but not why it almost rendered him dysfunctional. Thoughts?

 

By the way, I just read that scene wasn't even in the script until the last minute. Which means they originally had no intention of any kind of coda for Molly, other than being a nurse to Rosie and Sherlock. Shame on them. Glad they came to their senses.

 

Once you know that the guard is Sherlock in disguise, it's funny, because on rewatch it's obvious, he's standing right there behind the governor in plain sight. And I didn't pick up on his Scottish accent the first time around. For some reason that just tickles me. As did Mycroft turning out to be the one in disguise, I loved that call back to TEH.

 

Okay, I can see that you all are busily adding new posts as I fumble my way through this, so I'm going to stop now and go see what you all have been saying!

 

 

 

Here is more on the Molly scene change:

 

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-01-15/that-scene-in-mollys-kitchen-in-the-sherlock-finale-was-almost-very-different

[Alex the Dabbler]

 

Yes, it was disappointing and apparently a lot of other viewers felt the same way:

 

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-01-16/sherlock-records-its-lowest-ever-overnight-audience-with-59m-tuning-into-series-four-finale

 

Let's hope that Moffat and Gatiss learn that there is such a thing as too much of an emotional roller coaster.

 

I don't think those numbers can reflect how viewers felt about this episode; if they didn't watch it, how did they know what to think of it? Unless they all tuned in for 10 minutes then changed the channel, and that got counted as "not watching." Which is possible, I suppose.

 

Probably it's more a reflection of how they felt about the first episode!

 

 

Or it could be a response to seeing The Final Problem teaser.

[bedelia1984]

 

 

Here is more on the Molly scene change:

 

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-01-15/that-scene-in-mollys-kitchen-in-the-sherlock-finale-was-almost-very-different

 

 

Well, I am glad she was always going to have a big scene, but a coffin and a time lock, that sounds horrendous!! What were they trying to do to the poor woman? A couple more candidates for our island resort, for sure.

[BLS_Pro]

 

I don't think those numbers can reflect how viewers felt about this episode; if they didn't watch it, how did they know what to think of it? ...

 

Probably it's more a reflection of how they felt about the first episode!

Exactly on both counts.

 

 

"jealousy" seems like a strong word for someone who appears not to be able to distinguish one emotion from another, doesn't it?

Jealousy is the term used in Sussex vampire (from which the Sherlock/Eurus relation is drawn) and it is used in Bride (which is all about Eurus).  And the little girl was jealous of Sherlock for having a best friend.  She wanted one too - and wanted Sherlock to be that friend.

 

Whether SHE would recognize it as jealousy doesn't change the nature of the desire or the nature of her actions.  In other words, whether or not a person can accurately identify their own motivations doesn't mean they don't have them or that they are something else.

 

 

Does she really need to be explained? I'm not sure; I think we've all got enough vague impressions of personality disorders to accept that she's simply batsh*t crazy and will literally do anything, anything at all. She's Sherlock without a conscience, or even an understanding of what a conscience is. She's bored and she wants someone to play with.

I don't think boredom is her motivation.  And, as someone else pointed out, she does have a conscience - at least the little girl form of her does, just as she has a wide range of emotions as the little girl.  That is the problem.  HOW those two disparate 'personalities' are related.  She wants to play - she wants companionship.  She wants love from someone.  That is how John 'saved' Sherlock.  And that is how Eurus needs to be 'saved'.  She needs Sherlock to 'come to her room'.  She has the longing, the desire - not to mention the anger when those desires are not fulfilled. 

 

This is the thread tying both 'personalities' together. 

 

But HOW the disparate personalities manifest from this desire and how they are supposed to work together to the one, PLANNED, goal by Eurus to have the little girl 'saved', is what needs to be explained.  HOW the Games were supposed to lead from one to the other to the room needs to be explained - or at least how she expected them to reach that end - needs to be explained. 

 

In short, EURUS needs to be explained  - explained FAR more and FAR better than she was.

[BLS_Pro]

 

it was a waste to bring him back for those flat on screen clips, when he is such a gifted physical performer.

Agree completely.  He served NO point here - neither to his OWN story, nor to Final.  They could have left him out entirely and it would have changed nothing before the story nor anything IN the story.

 

 

 

[Pseudonym]

Agreed. I think they had to have a little Molly cameo at the end to show that although things would have been awkward she does get over it and they are still friends.

Just want to add:

 

It didn't even occur to me that anyone would think that the 'I love you' scene was real, but it just goes towards my opinion on how cleverly open the end is. Sherlolly shippers can see Molly stopping by as evidence her and Sherlock might make a go of it. Johnlock shippers can see John and Sherlock in 221B, Sherlock with Rosie on his hip, and decide that John moves back in and him and Sherlock decide to raise Rosie together. Especially given Mary's 'I know what you could be' which can be read as Johnlocky. There was the text from Irene in the last episode, which although it isn't mentioned again it leaves that ship open. It's very carefully not showing anything and not shooting anything down. Anyway, I haven't been in the 4.3 thread yet, I want to see the episode again first, but that's my opinion on the ship possibilities of the ending

[J.P.]

This actually belong more to the "How you relate to Sherlock" thread.

 

It's hardly about TFP. It's about me, and won't make much sense without knowing me for a while now. So you can actually skip it without missing anything in this discussion. I will move it to the other thread, once it stops to be spoilery.

 

 

Ending of TFP left me in the same state as the end of S3: uncontrollably sobbing. For reasons I could not even name. I tried to stay on Twitter or write the first impressions, but I didn't really felt like doing this. Went to bed relatively early, so around 2EM. Could not fall asleep for a while. Dreamt about an evil child thretening people.

 

Woke up with a huge emotional hangover. Felt like I don't want to leave the bed EVER. It's really good that I don't have to go to work. People could ask me why I look so upset, and as an answer I would probably burst into tears.

I was trying to read some reactions, and even wrote mine as a comment on a German blog, then another on the Polish one, but the whole day I was trying to find excuses not to come here. Apparently, when it comes to Sherlock, German and Polish are tools suitable for the more objective discussions, but Enlish is the language to bare my soul.

 

To be disappointed, even very disappointed, is one thing. But I feel as if I've lost a friend. I was prepared for a celebration, but I'm beeping grieving the whole day, and everything that happened in the last 3 years suddenly feels empty and sensless, as if TFP erased all meaning of it all.

 

I couldn't put a finger on what actually upset me so much, until while writing one of the more dry comments, the tears came again. It's the same reason that stirred so much in me before, and why I love the show. I will again quote Toby in her unforgettable post from last year.

 

We also get to see all the drama and hurt and vulnerability that comes with forming ties with other human beings, which for some of us might be the reason why we tried to avoid all that in the first place. "Caring is not an advantage" - what sensitive introvert hasn't sighed that to her- / himself at some point or other? Sherlock doesn't sell us the common storybook idea that love is the solution to every problem. The show's portrayal of love is more problematic, and more realistic and relatable. One might even say the verdict is still open on whether it's worth it for Sherlock. I'd say yes, but I've read plenty of dissenting opinions on that.

 

Well, that's it. The common storybook idea that love is the solution to everything found it's way to the Sherlockverse. My Sherlockverse. I still don't believe this notion, and Sherlock was the only place that allowed me to state it openly, and still feel okay.

 

It's pathetic isn't it? We are supposed to find our role models and fictive soulmates in our teenage years and not at the age when people become grandparents. And it's even worse - I criticize TJLC-ers, but cannot take the fact, that the show doesn't fit into my idea of it either.

 

Oh, I will get over it. Just need to digest it. Maybe I even find my old enthusiasm again. I don't want to let the ending take all the good things that happened to me. Just need a little time. A day or two, or a week. In the meantime I can finish watching Transcendence, as I had to skip the end yesterday, not to be late for Sherlock. And there are some other things I wanted to watch as well.

 

At least they didn't make Mycroft so completely "human", so I can still use "caring is not an advantage" as my slogan.  :P Yupp, sentiment took over me and I should never allow it. Even if it's only for a show.

 

Thank you for the final proof.

[BLS_Pro]

Eurus seems to have had access to an endless amount of information about Sherlock. But I suppose in this internet age, we're supposed to find that more believable than it might have been at one time. But to be able to divine his conflicted feelings about a woman she'd never even met ... I'm beginning to think Mycroft babbled to her more than he will ever admit. Idiot. :P

Eurus had access to an endless amount of information about Sherlock because Moriarty had an enormous amount of information about Sherlock FROM Mycroft.  And she was John's therapist.  And she certainly had the time and resources to investigate all his emotional connections.

 

Mycroft was just the tip of the informational iceburg to which she had access.  Hell, she probably had access to ALL of the government files (including Mycrofts) on Sherlock et al because she had access to the computers (and thus the outside world) at Sherrinford.

[BLS_Pro]

 visiting her like that; that's a huge sacrifice on Sherlock's part. That takes a big heart. It's not easy dealing with the mentally ill.

 

"Huge sacrifice"?  What is Sherlock giving up?  And why is what Sherlock giving up supposedly a greater value to him than the 'lesser' value of loving his sister and trying to help her? (If it were the other way around, where he is gaining a greater value for that which he trades - ie he would be profiting).

 

[Arcadia]

I think the huge waits between seasons are starting to take their toll.  Expectations are raised too high for the rare event that is an episode.

 

I think you've got something there. We had too much time to imagine what the "perfect" season would be like, and of course we didn't get it. They would have been better off making us believe the show was over for good, then springing S4 as a surprise. Hmmmm, maybe that's their strategy now....

 

 

There is a problem here, because Sherlock recognises Molly from the 'I love you' (and also a bit on instinct I think), so you would think that would inform his approach to the conversation. But, to me it is as if he can't quite process the information, or hasn't got a grasp on how she loves him- or else this is something he is actively choosing to ignore, something he has blocked out, just like his friend's death, and Eurus is confronting him quite forcefully with it.

Oh I definitely think it is a problem.  Given previous characterization in relation to Molly, it can't be that he doesn't process the info or hasn't got a grasp on her loving him - for the reasons I already identified.  Yet that is indeed the way they first begin the scene.

 

Yeah, Mycroft comes out of that whole situation looking like the village idiot. It is what it is

I think they destroyed the characterization of Mycroft in this episode.  He was just contradictory all over the place.  Doesn't want innocent blood on his hands in one scene and casually wants to kill innocent girl on the plane in the next.  John making all the clever deductions rather than Mycroft in the Gov's office.  They made someone we KNOW is demonstrably smart into "the village idiot".

 

 

Well, I think the point there was to show that, again, Sherlock is the better man. Mycroft is okay with killing his brother remotely by sending him on a death mission; but when the time comes to get rid of CAM, Sherlock does it himself. Because he's a manly man.

 

As probably you can tell, I disagree mightily on Moftisses take on what it means to be a "man", but I accept that seems to be their p.o.v.; which I take to be, if you have to cause someone's death, it's nobler to pull the trigger yourself than get someone else to do it. Sherlock does what he "has" to do, and consequences be damned. But Mycroft, the ultimate beauracrat, "wimps" out, until it's someone else holding the gun. And that I can accept as being in character.

 

I agree that it was a bit clumsily done. This audience is capable of perceiving nuance, they didn't need to be quite so obvious. Although given what this audience has made of their nuances in the past, perhaps they can be forgiven if they're a little gunshy.

 

 

 

We shouldn't forget that Moriarty had access to Molly too- and could have fed Eurus the relevant information. I just watched that brilliant scene in the lab with them all again, I'm sure he knew they were at least closer than Sherlock is to most women- actually you could read Sherlock's behaviour to Jim from IT (!) as a bit territorial, and maybe Moriarty did so.

 

You know, half of me would have loved for Moriarty to be the one to play that card (placing a threat on Molly's head, especially as he actually went out with Molly in TGG- it would have been so creepy! And really, having seen the convoluted plot that developed around Eurus being hidden, I'm not sure the fake death would have been more ridiculous. Though, granted, for Sherlock, that trick is repetitive.

 

I wondered for a moment whether Moriarty told Eurus not to kill Molly because he liked her a little bit. Yes, welcome to my world, where everyone is a fan of Molly Hooper.

 

Aw, leave me a little something from TRF to believe in! :D I've always bought into the theory that Sherlock's trick only worked because Jim didn't perceive Sherlock's affection for/trust in Molly. So if that's right, Jim didn't have anything of importance to relay to Eurus about Molly, because Jim never realized she mattered.

 

Anyway, I always prefer to blame Mycroft. :P

 

 

I want to be nice and leave it to you... but, doesn't it make more sense that Moriarty knew everything, including how Molly would help him, and thus made all the 'Miss me' tapes for after his demise? Otherwise, why make them?  :D

 

It was my understanding that he made them because Eurus asked him to, and she is supposed to be VERY persuasive. And I gather she was playing a long game, so she had a purpose for those tapes that I have yet to fully divine. :D

 

Of course, I am as in the dark as you are, but watching the way Moriarty is eyeing Sherlock, he is taking absolutely everything in. Even playing such a questionable date for Molly, he probably knew Sherlock wouldn't be able to resist picking on him. And then you've got to ask, why did he choose Molly as his way in to Sherlock's life to begin with?

Okay, I'll have a go at this! Jim picked Molly because he knew Sherlock did research at Bart's, so he got himself a job there (or pretended to) and found someone who occasionally interacted with Sherlock. Enter Molly. And when Jim does meet Sherlock, all he sees is Sherlock insulting Molly ... he doesn't interpret it as being "for her own good" any more than John does. Or than I did, for that matter.

 

How's that?

[BLS_Pro]

 that's it. The common storybook idea that love is the solution to everything found it's way to the Sherlockverse. My Sherlockverse. I still don't believe this notion, and Sherlock was the only place that allowed me to state it openly, and still feel okay.

But isn't the idea that love is what 'saved' Sherlock (and John)?  Isn't John's love of Sherlock, and Sherlock's love of John, the beating heart of the "Sherlockverse" these writers have created and pushed from the start?

[BLS_Pro]

 

It has real potential, if they could made it out. There are some killer moments, but overall the episode feels very cheap. The gorgeousness of the editing is gone, so did the story. Look at the explosion, it looks so cheap. And how on the earth they remained uninjured jumping through a window? I guess the writers and the editors were bored out of their minds, maybe the whole team of Sherlock. They made this episode just to finish the show off. It looks like Motfiss had lost their real interest in this show. But the PR got our hopes up too much. Television history? Bleh!!!

Everything would work better if they changed the whole Morality Maze idea into a series of cases or something like that, something like TGG or TRF. Maybe they would chase around London to find Eurus and she set a set of games for them, instead of that unrealistic asylum take over and dull grey wall sets. Ah, I need to write a fix it fanfic now.

 

I loved the show too much, even the worst episodes, but this episode is not worth for another watch.

 

 

Agreed.  There was SOOOO much potential in this episode.  The problem wasn't the material.  The problem was the story TELLING.  It was just HORRIBLE.  I'll repeat what I posted in another comment, since I edited/added this part after the fact and many may not have seen it.

 

I think all the 'explaining' rather than painful discovery and the BREAKING of those walls BY Sherlock as HE does something to recover his memories and thus feel the pain he repressed is the WORST writing we have gotten through ALL the seasons of Sherlock.  This should have been an episode of IMMENSE catharsis through SHERLOCK'S own actions.  It WASN'T.  He was LED around by the NOSE.  He didn't do ANYTHING.  Everything was done for/to him or was just casually 'oh I remember now'.  The IMMENSE dramatic potential was PISSED away - like Mag pissing in their fireplace)!!!

If they had shown Sherlock WORKING to break down his memory walls (maybe literally destroying some in his mind palace?) - ie doing what Sherlock does: SOLVING things - rather than him being spoon fed EVERYTHING like a child - as Mag did in 3.1 - this could have been a GREAT episode.  And then we would have had a wonderful two-parter between Bride and Final.

 

As it stands, Final made Bride a MUCH better episode than it had been (since one can now see - Sixth-Sense like - that it's really about his subconscious pointing him to his 'missing' sister).  But Final is a REALLY bad episode as far as actual storytelling goes.

[J.P.]

 

But isn't the idea that love is what 'saved' Sherlock (and John)?  Isn't John's love of Sherlock, and Sherlock's love of John, the beating heart of the "Sherlockverse" these writers have created and pushed from the start?

Not necessarily. If not for sentiment, Sherlock wouldn't be in a position of having to save John or be saved. In the story arch S1-S3 it's quite clearly for me. Alone in HLV we see that the sentiment to John made Sherlock mis-deduct Mary, what caused the whole drama at the end. :D There is a whole thread about it somewhere and a long story to be honest, that's why it might not make a sense to you now. ;)

 

I'm quite sure that my POV is quite unusual. And now I wonder if the makers were ever aware of it, as a possible interpretation. This is my Final Problem as it seems - how to deal with it.

[bedelia1984]

 

It was my understanding that he made them because Eurus asked him to, and she is supposed to be VERY persuasive. And I gather she was playing a long game, so she had a purpose for those tapes that I have yet to fully divine. :D

  ...........

 

Of course, I am as in the dark as you are, but watching the way Moriarty is eyeing Sherlock, he is taking absolutely everything in. Even playing such a questionable date for Molly, he probably knew Sherlock wouldn't be able to resist picking on him. And then you've got to ask, why did he choose Molly as his way in to Sherlock's life to begin with?

Okay, I'll have a go at this! Jim picked Molly because he knew Sherlock did research at Bart's, so he got himself a job there (or pretended to) and found someone who occasionally interacted with Sherlock. Enter Molly. And when Jim does meet Sherlock, all he sees is Sherlock insulting Molly ... he doesn't interpret it as being "for her own good" any more than John does. Or than I did, for that matter.

 

How's that?

 

 

That purpose is very mysterious all right! It couldn't possibly just be that Moftiss couldn't resist jamming Andrew Scott in any way they could!

 

Okay, that theory is pretty logical- but you've got to admit Jim must have realised at some point that she was crazy about Sherlock. I'd say it would have been pretty easy to identify her as the one in the canteen who wouldn't shut up about Sherlock Holmes. Annnd... if Moriarty though Sherlock made a point of deliberately ignoring Molly (not not noticing, but choosing not to pay attention), then near her is the perfect place to hide. I can't help but believe that his reasons for picking her were a little more pointed than just her vicinity to Sherlock- he could have met Sherlock in a million ways all on his own- posing as a client for example.

 

How about this- Moriarty and Eurus are both gamblers- they think there is a good chance that if they mess with Molly, it will upset him, so they just do it to see what happens? Kind of like the writers, with the audience.

[Inge l-w]

One goes to work after some simple reactions about the latest disastrous bit of S4 and comes back to find pages upon pages added! Love you all to bits! You make this forum the best place to discuss Sherlock!

Let's see: J.P. is absolutely right on the emotional impact, although everyone reacts differently (jeder tickt anders: to remember Dear Jim's ticktock mantra!) and I felt particularly upset and angry at the creators for foisting this episode on the fandom. Sloppy work and self-indulgent writing never helped any show progress and grow. Mr Moffat said at the BFI screening that they had now completed their work on a younger Sherlock Holmes growing up to be a responsible adult in the guise of the iconic Rathbone and Brett portrayals: b#%%*^#s, as Sherlock tried to write on the streets of London in TLD, or 'Nuts' in the American version. In fact, if anyone had even looked sideways at me today, I would probably have snapped their head off!

Then, dear Boton: it is not entirely clear in those last scenes, but Sherlock went to live with Dr Watson and Rosie while 221B was being rebuilt, but in the end, they all seem to move to their old place, especially since Dr Watson is specifically seen carting boxes with his own stuff around. Probably not able to afford a suburbia house with Mary gone, so he might sell out and move in permanently.

Parentlock is canon, which should please joanneta, as it was her original prompting of our friend sfmpco to start the Baby thread, way back in 2015.

Lowest viewing number ever: GOOD! I hope they learn that they cannot mess with goldfish heartstrings and minds with hype and then provide mediocre resolution of narrative threads!

Rathbone is seminal, just like Brett, this series is not worthy of its name anymore.

I watched the first hour of Endeavour, and Canticle ( name of the episode) was its usual robust, well-crafted episode. One reason why it had fewer viewers is that ITV hub, unlike BBC iPlayer, lets you catch up with past programmes wherever you are, due to its non-licensing restriction.

If I could erase data from my hard-drive like Sherlock, this episode would be wiped out very fast, indeed.

Finally, releasing Euros on an unsuspecting world would be like releasing Dr Lecter. Not an option.

[J.P.]

Okay, thanks. It makes sense. Need to rewatch - some time.

[BLS_Pro]

Not necessarily. If not for sentiment, Sherlock wouldn't be in a position of having to save John or be saved. In the story arch S1-S3 it's quite clearly for me. Alone in HLV we see that the sentiment to John made Sherlock mis-deduct Mary, what caused the whole drama at the end. :D There is a whole thread about it somewhere and a long story to be honest, that's why it might not make a sense to you now. ;)

 

I'm quite sure that my POV is quite unusual. And now I wonder if the makers were ever aware of it, as a possible interpretation. This is my Final Problem as it seems - how to deal with it.

 

I would agree that your POV is quite unusual - as I would agree that your POV was not the makers POV or their intent.  The latter was my only point - not that someone couldn't somehow come to a different conclusion. 

 

 

 

[Inge l-w]

Dear J.P. , leave yourself some time, it was a pretty harrowing bad LSD trip for all of us! And, unlike Mrs Hudson, I have never even tasted a 'herbal soother'!

[J.P.]

 

Lowest viewing number ever: GOOD! I hope they learn that they cannot mess with goldfish heartstrings and minds with hype and then provide mediocre resolution of narrative threads!

Really? I assumed that the viewing numbers are based on anticipation and not on the quality of a show. You don't know if it's good until you watched it, do you?

[Inge l-w]

Well, dear J.P. , those numbers meant that the fandom wasn't particularly pleased with the show after Episodes 1 &2. You can see the numbers going down with each one.

[BLS_Pro]

J.P. is absolutely right on the emotional impact, although everyone reacts differently (jeder tickt anders: to remember Dear Jim's ticktock mantra!) and I felt particularly upset and angry at the creators for foisting this episode on the fandom. Sloppy work and self-indulgent writing never helped any show progress and grow.

Yup.  I loved and admired this show for its SMART writing.  But as it progressed, it turned more and more into BAD writing, with  exceptional exceptions.  I blame Gatiss for this trend (his were always the weakest episodes and Moffat's the strongest, when it comes to good storytelling techniques).  And the writing ended on their biggest flop - where they just kept TELLING rather than SHOWING.  Exposition rather than drama (and artificial tension clock-ticking, rather than plot and character driven drama and conflict).  The main character being led by the antagonist, rather than being driven by his own actions.  Where Watson removed Mary's agency at the end of 4.1 (and gave it back to her in 4.2), the writers removed Sherlock's agency, and gave it to Eurus (with a large helping from Mycroft).  Bad plotting, bad story points (no consequence from being exploded out a window, unable to see missing glass or hear the sounds of the room which had NO wall!!!, etc etc ad nauseum).

 

It isn't WHAT they tried to say which was the problem.  It was the REALLY horrible way they went about saying it.

[BLS_Pro]

So - what IS "The Final Problem" in the episode?