Episode 4.3 "The Final Problem"

[Boton]

I feel sympathy for Eurus.  Her intellect developed way before her empathy did, and, IMO, that created a psychiatric disorder for her. (Possibly a made-up one, but this is Moftiss-land.) Theoretically, she could be rehabilitated by teaching her why the consequences of her actions matter; in some ways, the entire Sherrinford arc was about Eurus trying to learn why people's emotional reactions matter.  She's trying to land that plane, but she can't do it on her own.

 

I kind of think of it as similar to the people who have chronic insensitivity to pain; not only do they damage themselves a lot, but my understanding is that they have to learn intellectually not to hurt others, because they have no experiential framework to tell them how much force is too much.  I think Eurus is the intellectual version of this.

 

I don't want to watch an extended arc on her rehabilitation, though, and I don't much care for the purposes of a show whether we consider Sherrinford to be a jail or a mental institution - just keep her there.

[SanaB]

I can't say how they could go on with Eurus. Can she be therapied? I doubt it. If there are new episodes, I think she will only play a minor role. The actress who played Eurus said that there is more about her to tell but at the moment I can't think of a new arc with her.

[Arcadia]

I like the actress so much in that role that I wouldn't mind seeing her back for that reason. But I agree hers seems a difficult character to do much else with. I guess she could become the new Moriarty ... that is, Sherlock's arch-nemesis ... but I'm not sure it would work. On the other hand, to never mention her again (which to me, is the most likely scenario, I'm afraid) seems just ... lazy.

[bedelia1984]

I think if they come back they might be tempted to do a story with one of the Holmes parents and their past more prominent- maybe by extension they would bring Eurus back also.

[Boton]

I think if they come back they might be tempted to do a story with one of the Holmes parents and their past more prominent- maybe by extension they would bring Eurus back also.

 

 

That could be really interesting.  WV and TC will probably be too old to play their younger selves (but still up to acting, God willing!), and this would give a chance to recast some younger Holmes parents and explore some flashbacks. 

[Arcadia]

Yeah, but how would they deal with Sherlock's missing memories if they delve very far into family history? The possibilities that pop to mind don't please me .... 

[bedelia1984]

I quite like the idea of knowing about them pre-Sherlock. 

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

I think if they come back they might be tempted to do a story with one of the Holmes parents and their past more prominent- maybe by extension they would bring Eurus back also.

 

That could be really interesting. WV and TC will probably be too old to play their younger selves (but still up to acting, God willing!), and this would give a chance to recast some younger Holmes parents and explore some flashbacks.

Benedict could do dual role playing younger Mr. Holmes depending on how young they go.

 

I quite like the idea of knowing about them pre-Sherlock.

That would be interesting.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Is BC's sister an actress at all?  She presumably looks something like her mother.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Is BC's sister an actress at all? She presumably looks something like her mother.

I thought she had done some acting, however IMDb comes up basically blank.

[Surelock]

I think Eurus could come back but not in a large capacity. I could see her as this wise old sage figure that gives Sherlock advice when he's stumped about a case. I don't think Sherlock would ever ask Mycroft for help but I do think he would ask Eurus.

 

Maybe Sherlock doesn't know how to solve a case so he goes to Sherrinford to ask Eurus for advice. Eurus is smart enough to solve the case on her own but she realises that Sherlock doesn't want to be told the answer. It's just that Sherlock wants some pointers on how to reach the answer on his own. So Eurus gives Sherlock some hints on how to solve the case and lets him to work out the rest on his own. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

Is BC's sister an actress at all? She presumably looks something like her mother.

I thought she had done some acting, however IMDb comes up basically blank.

Maybe on stage?

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think Eurus could come back but not in a large capacity. I could see her as this wise old sage figure that gives Sherlock advice when he's stumped about a case. [....]

 

Maybe Sherlock doesn't know how to solve a case so he goes to Sherrinford to ask Eurus for advice. Eurus is smart enough to solve the case on her own but she realises that Sherlock doesn't want to be told the answer. It's just that Sherlock wants some pointers [....]

 

Maybe she'd give him some cryptic clues, a la the ancient Greek oracles.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

 

Is BC's sister an actress at all? She presumably looks something like her mother.

I thought she had done some acting, however IMDb comes up basically blank.

Maybe on stage?

Possibly

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

 

 

Is BC's sister an actress at all? She presumably looks something like her mother.

I thought she had done some acting, however IMDb comes up basically blank.

Maybe on stage?

Possibly

Doing a little more googling, there is a family pic from when Benedict was a tike that includes his sister and she does look like mom (more so than in the family pic on IMDb) so it could almost work (she's going to be 60 at some point this calendar year if I remember the age difference correctly).

[Carol the Dabbler]

It just occurred to me that the Sherlock's loss of Victor Trevor could be seen as analogous to Alan Turning's loss of Christopher Morcom.  Turing was in his late teens at the time (and Christopher was not murdered but rather died a slow death from tuberculosis), so he was able to cope better, but I find these comments interesting:
 

The event caused Turing great sorrow. He coped with his grief by working that much harder on the topics of science and mathematics that he had shared with Morcom.

 

Some have speculated that Morcom's death was the cause of Turing's atheism and materialism.

That could have been Turing's equivalent to Sherlock dropping any interest in friends or even common civility in favor of concentrating on his work.

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

Did anyone of you go through the additions to S4? I still haven't, which is a bit not good. Am I blind or there are no commentaries on the DVDs?

 

 

... it's true that there weren't many [DVD extras], and even those felt pretty formulaic.  But didn't they have another edition for S3, later on?  I wouldn't be surprised to see something with more extras available this fall (just in time for Christmas buying).

Looks like I guessed wrong! :(

[Artemis]

:(  I've been waiting.

 

 

[Arcadia]

 

More evidence they don't love us anymore.....

[Janyss]

OMG couldn't resist watching this one even if I haven't seen the previous three! Frightening!

 

First of all, any idea someone about the movie watched by Mycroft in the beginning? I thought it could be a fake, made on purpose for the episode

The home reminded me of the place Emma Peel is jailed by a psychopath and has to cross many rooms with ordeals each time ("the joker", I think). The events in Sherringford Island also remind me of these stories in which you are alone or with a few persons, and having to face big, big problems (I have forgotten the English title of Agatha Christie's "Dix petits nègres").

 

To my mind the problem with the episode is that you have to accept entering a game, and begin everything with a "what if...?" ("what if 5 minutes is really enough to plan this, what if some techniques of controling one's memories this way really exist"...). Then you can enjoy the situations, the moral dilemmas, the characters' behaviours, the questions about guilt...and of course the actors, the set, the emotion. Watson is so supportive, Sherlock goes from determination to despair, and Mycroft faces the fragility of the power he believed he had. Oh, I really believed he wanted to escape the situation when asking for John's sacrifice! I was very surprised and then, ooof (if one can say so), it was just an attempt to ease Sherlock's work! Well done! Of course I was torn when Sherlock asks Lestrade to be careful about his elder brother, and by the end of the episode (end of the program? Noooooo, please, don't! We want all of them back, don't we?).

[Carol the Dabbler]

Janyss -- cool avatar picture!
 

OMG couldn't resist watching this one even if I haven't seen the previous three! Frightening!

 
Heavens, that must have been quite a jolt!  It was "different" enough even after watching the episodes leading up to it.
 

First of all, any idea someone about the movie watched by Mycroft in the beginning? I thought it could be a fake, made on purpose for the episode
The home reminded me of the place Emma Peel is jailed by a psychopath and has to cross many rooms with ordeals each time ("the joker", I think). The events in Sherringford Island also remind me of these stories in which you are alone or with a few persons, and having to face big, big problems (I have forgotten the English title of Agatha Christie's "Dix petits nègres")

 

The novel has had various British titles, including Ten Little Indians; in the US it's always been called And Then There Were None.  I'm pretty sure I've read that the movie scenes that we see Mycroft watching were made just for this episode -- they sure did a good job of making an "old" movie, didn't they?
 

... by the end of the episode (end of the program? Noooooo, please, don't! We want all of them back, don't we?).

Definitely!  And I seriously doubt that we've seen the last of them.

[Janyss]

There could be many trails to follow for new épisodes...Don't you think the guy who introduced John to Sherlock deserves a story on his own? What about our story if not this encounter?

 

The "fake" movie, if so, takes it all, of course. I think that with it the writers had fun on the fans watching and rewatching the episodes, the scenes, the lines...too, with it. Anyway, they can make their own "Casablanca"!

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'd definitely like to see more of Mike Stamford, and am glad they've kept the character "alive" by mentioning him now and then, and actually writing a part for him a couple more times -- he was in Abominable Bride, of course, and was supposed to be in Sign of Three, but David Nellist had other commitments.

 

It occurs to me that Nellist is the only actor, other than BC and MF, who has done three different versions of the same scene (in the Pilot version of Study in Pink, the final version, and the Victorian version in Abominable Bride).

[Janyss]

Thanks for the avatar, Carol. It is not my creation, but I found it on the internet. I had other choices, but the files were too heavy. I like this one with a very human and quite optimistic Mycroft.

 

I had seen a few scenes of this finale episode last spring, but in a whole only yesterday. I'm now with the idea that its story could be a good metaphore about how we try to control terror when it threatens our so-called modern world and our rationnality. Would you agree in my take that Euros can symbolize recent and past ideologies of terror that we thought we had enjailed and that we have to face again? Thus Sherlock, John and Mycroft would depict, each one in his way, the reactions people have had, let's say in front of the rise of nazism, or have nowadays about radical islamic movements.

As the hero, Sherlock of course embodies the fight with rationalism and genuine values of modernity (including a part of humanity and feelings), John also goes quite this way in a will of resistence, and Mycroft represents the acts of short-sighted governments in front of the dangers (I thought of the 30's British policy of appeasement towards Hitler, when Chamberlain thought he could save peace with more and more concessions to Hitler, and we could think about the blind of Western governments about the rise of extremist ideologies in the Middle East). To go on with the metaphore, I can say that so as to do his job, Mycroft  tries to manipulate Euros the way Western countries have tried to use nazism and later islamism for their interests, believing all would always be under control. Of course it doesn't work, nor for Mycroft neither for Western powers, and the disaster follows. The episode is a perfect depiction of these dangers and the resistence we must develop in front of them.

 

Well anyway, the crew has conveyed many things in this ending, and I guess there is a multitude of possible interpretations of this story.

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I must admit that I had not thought of that interpretation before reading it here.  I have no idea whether the writers thought of it either.  But it does fit nicely, so -- maybe!

 

Well anyway, the crew has conveyed many things in this ending, and I guess there is a multitude of possible interpretations of this story.

 

Nobody connected with the show has yet said it's over.  One of the Moftiss twins did say that TFP was "the end -- of chapter one," meaning apparently that any further episodes would depict a Holmes who is more mature, a la Basil Rathbone or Jeremy Brett.  Everyone connected with the show seems to think that there won't be any further episodes for a while -- but nobody has said it's over.

 

Or maybe you just meant the ending of the episode, or the ending of Series 4.  Sorry -- I do go off half-cocked sometimes!