Mary Morstan

[sherlockandjohn]

"They're all psychopaths."

Ugh. I have a feeling this might be Moffat and Gatiss' take as well, and if so, are we really going to see an action trio next series? I'm preparing myself. It is not what I'd want, but I guess as long as Sherlock and John get plenty of friendship development, I can deal with most things.

I never saw John as a psychopath, and I dislike the idea of anyone but Sherlock having psychopathic tendencies. He's supposed to be unique, but now he's becoming more human, and John and Mary a bit more psycho. I don't much object to Sherlock being humanised, as long as it's not overdone. But John... There's a reason why Sherlock says "John, I am a ridiculous man, redeemed only by the warmth and constancy of your friendship." I'd like to keep that dynamic between them. It's great to see Sherlock do grand gestures for his friend, but John should still be the moral centre. "John Watson, you keep me right."

But this post was supposed to be about Mary I've pretty much reconciled with the surgery explanation, simply because she could have killed Sherlock if she had wanted to, so clearly she didn't. Not saying it's a great explanation - but all things considered there is no other explanation.

Furthermore, I'm actually okay with her dark past - as long as it doesn't become present; that she should again become an assasin and work with Sherlock and John, and they just sweep that under the rug as well. I fear it could happen. But who knows?

[wildwoodflower]

Oh, good heavens, the fanfic must be going crazy!  (Not sure I have the steel nerves required to read any of it.)

 

I believe there are some who disagree with that interpretation, but I think I agree with you on the "intention" angle.  Let me say it my way and see if you agree:  If Mary had been determined to kill Sherlock, she was perfectly capable of making a guaranteed-kill shot.  She was not prepared to cave in when he tried to call her bluff, so in a sense she had to shoot him (she's certainly not big enough to wrestle him for the gun).  But she wasn't going for a kill, so she made a halfhearted shot that happened to hit something fairly vital.

 

At least that's how I currently see it.

 

That's a good interpretaion of the scene. And one I can go with. It was the classic "rock and a hard place" situation.  I'm not justifying her actions in any way. I'm thinking in terms of storytelling. This type of character is a well-used trope in modern story-telling. (Mostly male like Bond, Bourne, Michael Westin - but also Nikita, and Sydney in Alias). Mary is a former CIA "wetworks engineer" if we are to believe CAM's statements (and he could be skewing them for his own reasons obviously). She was disillusioned. Went rogue. Went on the run and then tried to disappear.  Not only does she not want to lose John, she doesn't want to be found by whoever she was working for. And she's pregnant which puts a whole hormonal twist on the thing. Women's brains shrink up to 7% while pregnant. You don't make the quickest decisions. Or sometimes even remember why you entered a room.

 

Anyway I think the dynamic is interesting.  I think it will be exciting and fun. Plus, there's a baby and the possiblity of reckless child endangerment in the fine tradition of Raising Arizona. I can't wait.

[HSP123]

 

Personally, I think that her view "but then she's redeemed" is a tad optimistic....

 

Well, I do have to say that her apparent take on the characters, and on John in particular, is not my take.  For example:  "John shoots people. He shot the psycho cabbie in episode one, and that was fine. He beat up a crack addict, and that was fine. So, Mary fits in really well with those two. They’re all psychopaths."  I do hope she's joking about the psychopath part.  I mean, John shoots a serial killer who's trying to poison Sherlock, and he disarms a guy who's trying to stab him -- and that makes him a psychopath?!

 

I wish she had elaborated on the "redeemed" part.  It seems to me that her shooting Sherlock is either justifiable on the spot (and I think a good case can be made for that) or it's not justifiable at all.  If she's talking about Sherlock's "surgical precision" claptrap, I don't see that as redeeming her.  I think that was just Sherlock's way of giving John his permission to work things out with Mary.

 

I've been questioning my sanity ever since I saw this episode.  Maybe I'm just sensitive, but if I were in John's place, I'd would be mortified, terrified, and angry beyond all rational thought.  The woman I love, who is carrying our child, nonetheless, is not who she had said she was.  Worse yet, I'll never know the truth.

 

I think of it like this, John is not only Sherlock's friend, but he is also a survivor of war.  He is no stranger to excitement and chaos.  I always viewed Mary as the perfect person for John, because she brought a sense of comfort and normalcy into his life.  Their life together seemed like the perfect escape from the trials of Baker Street and Afghanistan.

 

I guess that's the difference between myself and Mr. Watson.  

[Caya]

Hello HSP123 and welcome to the forum!

 

Opinions about Mary (and about Moffat's turning her into a La Femme Moffita, as plaidder put it so succinctly) tend to vary wildly, so your sanity is most definitely intact and you are not alone in your opinion .

[Carol the Dabbler]

Welcome to Sherlock Forum, HSP123! 

 

I assume your signature uses the cypher from "The Dancing Men," but I don't have that memorized.  Dare I ask for a translation?

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

 I always viewed Mary as the perfect person for John, because she brought a sense of comfort and normalcy into his life.  Their life together seemed like the perfect escape from the trials of Baker Street and Afghanistan.

 

I am sure that is what John himself thought. But maybe he just can't escape from those "trials", because, as a soldier and a doctor with years of experience, he had to get acclimatized to a life most "ordinary" people would scarcely consider possible. You can't adapt really well to danger and death on a daily basis without losing at least some of your suitability for comfort and normalcy, like it or not.

[Caya]

  

 

(source)

 

Probably just a coincidence, but a funny one .

[Caya]

I must admit I ed at this:

 

Jim from IT Mary introduced as a love interest to one of the characters, but it turns out in an epic plot twist that he she was actually a criminal mastermind killer for hire who lied about their identity to their girlfriend spouse and who then strapped explosives to John Watson  shot Sherlock in the chest, but no, he’s she’s not a villain AT ALL.

 

[T.o.b.y]

You know, I wouldn't even mind if they made Mary a villain, but I honestly don't think that's their intention. We shall see.

 

Hm, maybe I would mind, though. Villains are boring. Simple. Ambiguous characters are much more interesting. I want less "good old-fashioned villains" and more people like Mary (and Irene). If Sherlock isn't a conventional hero, then why should he have conventional antagonists (and allies)? Not that I think Mary is meant to be so much as an antagonist, either. I understand where that interpretation comes from, and it does make sense, I just don't think it's what the authors intended at all.

 

I do wonder where the decision to have her shoot Sherlock came from. It has no precedence in the original stories. Holmes is (near fatally) attacked in The Illustrious Client, but that is all, and it is not a gun wound, either. Don't get me wrong, I bloody love that scene and what follows inside Sherlock's mind, but where on earth did they get the idea?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I've been racking my brain since it first aired in January and I can't come up with a viable answer...at least not from canon.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Maybe from one of those old movies they're always going on about?

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Or maybe Moftiss are in a pissing contest with Elementary, whose Irene Adler turned out to be the real Moriarty.  So perhaps Moftiss are saying, "Well just wait till you find out who our Mary Morstan really is!"

 

Reeeeeally hope I'm wrong about that one! 

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I know in one of the Rathbone Holmes movies, Holmes is captured by Moriarty and is slowly being bled to death.

[T.o.b.y]

Or maybe Moftiss are in a pissing contest with Elementary, whose Irene Adler turned out to be the real Moriarty.  So perhaps Moftiss are saying, "Well just wait till you find out who our Mary Morstan really is!"

 

Reeeeeally hope I've wrong about that one! 

 

Oh no. Come on. No. Please, no? That would be so... dumb. As in "she's a CIA trained assassin" dumb. Oh, wait a minute - damn.

 

Well, until series 4 proves me wrong, I'll try to believe in Mary Watson and if they disillusion me, so be it, I can definitely live with that this time.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I know in one of the Rathbone Holmes movies, Holmes is captured by Moriarty and is slowly being bled to death.

 

 

To death death, or just attempted death?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

It was supposed to be to the death. Holmes left on a table with his life dripping away while Moriarty tries to make his escape.

[Carol the Dabbler]

But -- let me guess -- Watson saves him at the last minute?  Or Holmes saves himself by using a fountain pen to give himself a transfusion of his own blood?

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

It was either Watson or Lestrade, but I would probably think it was Watson....it's been awhile.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yay -- good old Watson!  Or Lestrade -- good old Lestrade!

 

[T.o.b.y]

For once, aimlessly browsing around tumblr was not a complete waste of my time (ooops, sorry for the arrogance dripping through that statement!). Anyway, I found this little comment and it sums up my own thoughts on Mary and what I think the problem with the Watsons is so well, that I think I'll just link to it:

 

http://ivyblossom.tumblr.com/post/89163657635/mary-watson-isnt-good-enough

 

 

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

It will be interesting to see the real AGRA for sure. I hope it does blow us away....but not John or Sherlock.....if you catch my drift.

[Caya]

Just when I thought that everything about Mary has been stated and discussed to death and back, I stumbled upon this meta on tumblr. And wouldn't you know it, the author raises some new points. With pictures to prove them. And no speculations, just facts.

 

What I found particularly interesting was that Magnussen's file showed the initials АГРА, but for once there's no screenshot (can anyone provide one? - Aithine's is sadly still down, and my Blu-rays are with a friend). Mary, a Russian?

[Zain]

Yes, just looked at the scene again.

When Magnussen demonstrates how he "pictures" her file, you see that page with the two pictures.

On the left, that is either Mary's former appearance, or a hit she did. The picture on the right shows her "current appearance", though it seems to be an older picture, because Magnussen also has got one in color which seems like a picture taken in secret.

Beneath, there's a text in Cyrillic, most likely Russian, sadly too pixeled to read it. Then there's the Cyrillic initials of her name, next to it, her initials in the "Roman" alphabet, which seems to be a copy of her handwriting. Resembles the writing on the thumbdrive, especially the curve of the R. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Good heavens, if that's just laying the groundwork, wonder what this is leading up to?

 

Amazing that I never noticed the Cyrillic alphabet in Magnussen's head-file, but then I guess I have a lot of company there.  Oddly enough, I had wondered whether Mary might be Russian, a former KGB agent who went off on her own when the Soviet Union broke up -- but then I double-checked the date, and Mary would have been just a teenager then.  So I forgot that idea till now.

 

There are indeed some other screen-cap sites, Martina, at least for Series 3, but unfortunately I don't have them bookmarked.   They showed right up on Google, though.

 

[Zain]

Oh, don't worry. I didn't either, and I should, because I am used to reading in Cyrillic. It's not exactly easy to spot it unless one stops and has a closer look at "Mary's" file.

Of course, Russia is the most likely answer, but we cannot exclude other nations. Serbian, for example, also uses Cyrillic. It only strengthens the connection to Eastern Europe that was already mentioned a few times in S3.