Episode 1.3, "The Great Game"

[Carol the Dabbler]

Personally the lack of a follow up scene never bothered me. I just assume that Sherlock went to explain, told her he did what he did because he thought he was saving her life, and Molly would still be crushed but would of course forgive him.

 

I agree. This is one time when Sherlock wasn't using her or just being flip. He actually had a damn good reason for what he did, so an explanation would be the appropriate thing to do.

[J.P.]

I don’t know JP if it would change my impression likely because I don’t know how that could ever be funny and frankly in the context of the quote it didn’t seem like he was joking.

 

I didn't say it was a good joke. I see it as an attempt of deflection - to cut the discussion he's very uncomfortable with. He did the same when I tried to talk to him about the terrible German in the show - after few excuses he's been suddenly making fun of Peter Dinklage's accent in GoT.  :blink:  My personal impression is that he stops to listen when he's cornered, he wants to get out of the situation ASAP and by any means. Which is a bit no good, but doesn't necessarily make him an evil person.

[gerry]

I didn’t say he was evil but I do think what he said does reflect his honest feelings.

[Boton]

 

I never understood why some people seemed to shy away from the idea that their parents were intimate. Duh, of course they were, at least once, where did they think they came from? Wal-Mart?

 

:lol2:   I suspect that attitude originates when the kids are at the age when sex is icky, and they can't believe that their parents would do anything that revolting.  That phase passes pretty damn quickly, of course, but only as applied to oneself and one's peers.  Also, the way a lot of parents act when their kids are around, you'd think they never heard of sex.  That may be changing, but I don't believe I ever saw my father and mother do anything more passionate than kiss each other rather perfunctorily on the cheek.

 

 

Yep.  I didn't know what sex was until I was told about it, and I remember there was a lag time between being told how human beings reproduce and realizing that meant that my parents must do it.  And then there were about 6 months of sleepless nights where I listened until they sounded like they were asleep, trying to catch them doing this bizarre thing.

 

And it wasn't that my parents were against sex or thinking it was something to be ashamed of.  They just kept it private.  I think I've seen my parents kiss on the lips fewer than two dozen times in my life.  That's for them, not for me.  What I *have* seen is them flirt with other people.  They both are terrible, wonderful flirts, and they would sit at events and flirt their butts off, sitting side by side with one another.  I once asked my mom about that, and she scoffed and said, "I know your Dad's coming home with me, and he knows I'm coming home with him, so it's just fun."

 

Now, onto Molly.  I'm on the side that thinks that "she'd just shag someone else" was meant as a joke and doesn't look all that good in print.  I think SM meant "Well, Molly is resilient enough that she can find someone else and put Sherlock in her rearview mirror; she's not going to carry a torch her entire life." But it didn't sound like that, unfortunately.

[Pseudonym]

I still find it extremely surprising she even feels that way these days. In the first two seasons, yes, but these days she seems to see him without the rose-tinted glasses and treats more as a slightly troublesome friend. I thought she'd gotten over her feelings completely. 

[Arcadia]

Whereas I perceived her as falling harder for him every season. Until this last one, when she finally seemed more at ease with him, which made me think she was settling for friendship. Until that dang phone call ... now she's in limbo. Agh!

[Pseudonym]

I didn't get that vibe from her at all in S3. Yep, she's got a BF who looks (supposedly) like Sherlock, but they can't be similar personality wise. Besides, that might just be Molly's type - the likes tall guys who dress smartly.

When Sherlock asks her to go for chips with him, she turns him down. 

What bits make you think she's still hung up on him in S3?

[Boton]

But how would you even get emotionally hung up on that phone call?  I mean, she knows that she has a crush on Sherlock Holmes (if she even still does); he's not exactly known for avoiding weird or random actions.  He calls her up and says (paraphrase): Can you do something for me, without asking me why? Say I love you.  

 

How does she even get from that to an emotional response? Even though she says it is actually true, she knows it is some sort of stunt.  Why wouldn't she just say it or not say it and not be that affected by the whole thing?  

[Artemis]

What bits make you think she's still hung up on him in S3?

 

I got that impression a teensy bit when Sherlock said, "Not all the men you fall for can turn out to be sociopaths," and after he walked away she smiled to herself and said "Maybe it's just my type."  And I thought part of the reason she turned him down for chips was because she was still a bit hung up on him, and going to eat with him might have put her back in the danger zone, so to speak.  I think even Sherlock may have recognized that when he said "You can't do this again, can you?"

 

But how would you even get emotionally hung up on that phone call?  I mean, she knows that she has a crush on Sherlock Holmes (if she even still does); he's not exactly known for avoiding weird or random actions.  He calls her up and says (paraphrase): Can you do something for me, without asking me why? Say I love you.  

 

How does she even get from that to an emotional response? Even though she says it is actually true, she knows it is some sort of stunt.  Why wouldn't she just say it or not say it and not be that affected by the whole thing?  

 

That's exactly what I thought from watching this scene, and it still puzzles me.  :/

 

 

[Pseudonym]

I agree. She was the one who made that phone call more than it needed to be imho. Why didn't she just roll her eyes, say 'I love you' and go on with her day. She didn't have to get all hammy about it and start saying she couldn't possibly because it's true. Just say it and make out it doesn't mean anything, even if it secretly does. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Well, when the phone rang, it sure looked to me like she was having a bad day already.  You know, one of those days when you just couldn't bear one more stress?  And then here comes one more, and it's just the last straw?  So maybe it's not the "I love you" call, it's everything else, whatever that may have been.

[J.P.]

Well, this scene was rewritten, maybe in the last minute. They needed something to crush Sherlock… But honestly, wouldn't the story also work without this scene?

[T.o.b.y]

But how would you even get emotionally hung up on that phone call? I mean, she knows that she has a crush on Sherlock Holmes (if she even still does); he's not exactly known for avoiding weird or random actions. He calls her up and says (paraphrase): Can you do something for me, without asking me why? Say I love you.

 

How does she even get from that to an emotional response? Even though she says it is actually true, she knows it is some sort of stunt. Why wouldn't she just say it or not say it and not be that affected by the whole thing?

That's hard to explain if you haven't been hopelessly in love with someone the way Molly is with Sherlock. All I can say is I have been and the scene rings true to me.

 

It's like he's toying with her feelings, does that make sense? And she can't know that he doesn't want to, that he isn't being cruel out of his usual callous thoughtlessness.

 

I wish I could explain this better. Give me another chance in the morning when I am caffeinated.

 

I also wish I could think of an elegant way to get back to The Great Game from here.

[Boton]

 

But how would you even get emotionally hung up on that phone call? I mean, she knows that she has a crush on Sherlock Holmes (if she even still does); he's not exactly known for avoiding weird or random actions. He calls her up and says (paraphrase): Can you do something for me, without asking me why? Say I love you.

 

How does she even get from that to an emotional response? Even though she says it is actually true, she knows it is some sort of stunt. Why wouldn't she just say it or not say it and not be that affected by the whole thing?

That's hard to explain if you haven't been hopelessly in love with someone the way Molly is with Sherlock. All I can say is I have been and the scene rings true to me.

 

It's like he's toying with her feelings, does that make sense? And she can't know that he doesn't want to, that he isn't being cruel out of his usual callous thoughtlessness.

 

I wish I could explain this better. Give me another chance in the morning when I am caffeinated.

 

I also wish I could think of an elegant way to get back to The Great Game from here.

 

 

Actually, I have been hopelessly in love with someone like that.  So much so that I would accidentally say "I love you" once in a while when I meant "I love that" or whatever. So much that I eventually had to say that if we weren't going to marry, I couldn't be his friend any more, because I wouldn't be able to fall in love with anyone else if he were popping up occasionally in my life.

 

But it the scene still doesn't do it for me.  [shrugs]  I can understand that it might line up better with someone else's experience or perspective.

 

So, TGG then?   :)

[T.o.b.y]

The Great Game.

 

You know, the other day I was thinking, I bet Sherlock got so obsessed with the Carl Powers case because the victim was a boy who drowned. No matter how deep he may have buried the memory of Victor and Eurus (and we know from The Abominable Bride that it was very deep), that must have resonated.

 

Poor Sherlock.

[gerry]

How does she even get from that to an emotional response? Even though she says it is actually true, she knows it is some sort of stunt.  Why wouldn't she just say it or not say it and not be that affected by the whole thing?

It would be emotional to say ILY for the first time to someone you know doesn’t reciprocate when you know that person already knows how you feel. This why she likely thought he was making fun of her. When someone has been treating you that way over a long period of time, you assume the worst as a default.

 

I agree. She was the one who made that phone call more than it needed to be imho. Why didn't she just roll her eyes, say 'I love you' and go on with her day. She didn't have to get all hammy about it and start saying she couldn't possibly because it's true. Just say it and make out it doesn't mean anything, even if it secretly does.

 

I don’t think Molly’s mind works that way. She’s not fake or a liar so I doubt the thought ever crossed her mind. She is transparent by nature.

 

So much that I eventually had to say that if we weren't going to marry, I couldn't be his friend any more, because I wouldn't be able to fall in love with anyone else if he were popping up occasionally in my life.

You don’t see the ILY call maybe pushing Molly to confront this about her own life especially since she didn’t seem like she believed Sherlock? The only time we know Molly has been in a serious relationship is when Sherlock was gone for two years.

[Boton]

 

So much that I eventually had to say that if we weren't going to marry, I couldn't be his friend any more, because I wouldn't be able to fall in love with anyone else if he were popping up occasionally in my life.

You don’t see the ILY call maybe pushing Molly to confront this about her own life especially since she didn’t seem like she believed Sherlock? The only time we know Molly has been in a serious relationship is when Sherlock was gone for two years.

I can see her getting to that point, but not with that phone call. Not unless she had just happened to spend the whole day contemplating breaking ties with Sherlock (which clearly she later didn’t) and then the phone call came at the exact right time. That’s a string of events that seems unlikely to assume the audience would put together.

 

Honestly, I expected Molly to get frustrated and say she wasn’t going to play his little game for a case or an experiment or whatever was going on, and that the only way he’d ever hear those words were if he said them himself to her face and meant it.

 

And then I guess either Eurus’s bluff would be called or she really would have had the kitchen booby trapped or something.

 

 

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[gerry]

I can see her getting to that point, but not with that phone call. Not unless she had just happened to spend the whole day contemplating breaking ties with Sherlock (which clearly she later didn’t) and then the phone call came at the exact right time. That’s a string of events that seems unlikely to assume the audience would put together.

I guess that depends on whether you think the montage is consistent with the call. That is also unlikely to put together.

 

Honestly, I expected Molly to get frustrated and say she wasn’t going to play his little game for a case or an experiment or whatever was going on, and that the only way he’d ever hear those words were if he said them himself to her face and meant it.

When has Molly ever refused to do anything to/for Sherlock though? That wouldn’t seem like her to me to say something like that. Then again, I was quite suprised that she made him say it first because that was more assertive than she normally is as well.

[Artemis]

But the scene still doesn't do it for me.  [shrugs]  I can understand that it might line up better with someone else's experience or perspective.

 

Same.  I've been in unrequited love.  Was stuck on him for years.  Still don't connect with Molly's handling of the phone call.

 

Oh well.  :/

 

 

[Pseudonym]

Back to TGG and Carl Powers - I've always wondered where Jim met Carl. He says Carl laughed at him so he stopped him laughing, which would make me think they were in school together. But the mud on Carl's shoes was from Kent (I think, at least somewhere in England) and Moriarty has a pretty strong Irish accent for someone who moved to England as a kid. Unless he moved there briefly then went back to Ireland again. 

[Boton]

Yeah, same. It sounded very much like they were in school together, but you're right about the accent.  

[Arcadia]

Maybe they were at a swim meet together?

[Carol the Dabbler]

That's always been my theory.  If they were both really good swimmers, they could have been competing against each other fairly often in some sort of British-Isles championship events.

 

'Nother thing that puzzles me, though, is Jim referring to Carl as "little Carl."  Is he speaking from an adult perspective simply because he's an adult now?  Or was Jim older than Carl?  Or did he have his growth spurt earlier?  Or was Carl simply a smaller person than Jim?  I don't see how Jim could have already been an adult when Carl died, because we know that Sherlock was a kid then, and he seems to be about the same age as Jim.

[Pseudonym]

They say Carl is big for his age though, because he's wearing mens size shoes. And since Jim isn't very tall I can't see him being bigger. I think he's probably doing it from an adult perspective. Plus it makes Carl sound lesser than him. I agree they must have been about the same age since Jim looks about the same age as Sherlock. 

 

I'd like to know a bit more about Jim's background - a kid who'd happily murder another kid, and get away with it so easily, is horrifyingly fascinating. 

[Arcadia]

Pseud, you and Sherlock are made for each other. :p