Episode 1.3, "The Great Game"

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I always think this is what Sherlock looked like walking around the dorm in uni. The dressing gown over the daily clothes looks like a too-faithful translation of Victorian Holmes to me, when a guy plausibly would have taken off his top coat (frock coat? whatever) and put on something else around the house, but this is the real Sherlock to me.  Half the time, if I fantasize stories, I imagine Sherlock coming home, taking off the battle armor, and putting on flannel pants and a ratty tshirt. 

 

 

I suppose it would have been too distracting for the shot if Sherlock had been sporting one of many of Benedict's ratty collegiate-era vintage Muppet t-shirts.  (Oscar, naturally, for Sherl).  Leastways, that was often his mufti before he was married.  Sophie probably burned them all.

 

 

I figure that Sherlock has a really odd assortment of logo tees, some of which are serious (like his uni) and some of which are unexpected (like Pink Floyd or something).

 

This is my day to speculate on/criticize the Cumberbatch family, but I fervently hope Sophie did no such thing. One's husband is not a fixer-upper project.  They get to have likes, dislikes, and ratty old tshirts too.  

[Hikari]

 

 

 

 

 

I always think this is what Sherlock looked like walking around the dorm in uni. The dressing gown over the daily clothes looks like a too-faithful translation of Victorian Holmes to me, when a guy plausibly would have taken off his top coat (frock coat? whatever) and put on something else around the house, but this is the real Sherlock to me.  Half the time, if I fantasize stories, I imagine Sherlock coming home, taking off the battle armor, and putting on flannel pants and a ratty tshirt. 

 

 

I suppose it would have been too distracting for the shot if Sherlock had been sporting one of many of Benedict's ratty collegiate-era vintage Muppet t-shirts.  (Oscar, naturally, for Sherl).  Leastways, that was often his mufti before he was married.  Sophie probably burned them all.

 

 

I figure that Sherlock has a really odd assortment of logo tees, some of which are serious (like his uni) and some of which are unexpected (like Pink Floyd or something).

 

This is my day to speculate on/criticize the Cumberbatch family, but I fervently hope Sophie did no such thing. One's husband is not a fixer-upper project.  They get to have likes, dislikes, and ratty old tshirts too.  

 

 

That was only a theory; I'm not accusing Mrs. Cumberbatch without proof.  Maybe Ben finally tossed those ratty things when he and Sophie were courting, figuring that to be worthy of a woman of sophistication like her it was time to toss out the college T-shirts.  Which were getting a bit small through many washings if we can be honest.

 

I remember vividly the first time I discovered that my new smoldering brunet crush is actually a ginge with a decidedly less worldly sartorial presentation than Sherlock presents.  I was incredulous; it felt like something in my brain tore--the disparity was just so . . . . So large, between Acting and the reality.  Especially back circa 2011.  Ben was 35, but when he appeared with the angelic red curls and the Cookie Monster T-shirts, he barely seemed old enough to qualify as an undergraduate.  It was adorable . . but it was considerably less H.O.T. than he looks when he's in Sherlock mode. 

 

If he's still got those novelty tees (despite having, what, millions of pounds by this point) I think they must just hang out in the drawers as sleepwear.  Because he's upped his style game considerably since he got SuperNova Famous.  Don't get me wrong--I'd take Bendi in a Beaker t-shirt.  Or nothing, which would be even better!

 

[Boton]

I actually have completely gotten over my BC crush, which is nice.  I'm too old to have celebrity crushes.  :-) However, I do still have a mad crush on Sherlock Holmes!   ;)

[Hikari]

I actually have completely gotten over my BC crush, which is nice.  I'm too old to have celebrity crushes.  :-) However, I do still have a mad crush on Sherlock Holmes!   ;)

 

I have forced myself to get over mine, largely, particularly as he went and broke my heart by getting married.  I was glad on a (deeply buried) unselfish level that he found someone classy and accomplished to be his life partner.  Some of his short-lived female companions during his single days were a bit questionable.  Nothing screams 'Premature Mid Life Crisis' like dating 23 year old Ukrainian blonds who are 15 years your junior.

 

Richard Armitage is still single .  . . I can dream.

 

[Boton]

I have had a crush on Harrison Ford for 40 years, since the first time I saw him in Star Wars.  A couple of years ago, I realized he was my Dad's age, and, um....that feels really weird.  

 

Then again, I was talking to Dad about this, and he has a crush on Jeri Ryan (Seven of Nine from Star Trek), who is my age. I suppose as long as we keep the inter-generational crushes confined to our sci-fi, we're OK.  

[T.o.b.y]

Who could watch the old Star Wars and not fall for Han? Age gap be damned, when it comes to fictional crushes, anything goes. Some of mine aren't even human.

 

And they have never extended to the actors. Real people don't interest me that way unless I know them personally. Mr B. C. is nothing to me beyond a talented man whose work I often enjoy but Sherlock... My love for Sherlock is still strong and I see no reason to do anything about that.

[Arcadia]

I actually have completely gotten over my BC crush, which is nice.  I'm too old to have celebrity crushes.

 

​Oh, my dear, trust me ... you're never too old. :P

 

Who could watch the old Star Wars and not fall for Han?

Er ... um.... me? Han's too cocky for my taste, I've always been Luke's girl.

[gerry]

And they have never extended to the actors. Real people don't interest me that way unless I know them personally.

This is how I feel about it too. How can you crush on an actor when you can’t possibly know if their interviews really reflect the actual person and not just what they want you to believe? Don’t get me wrong, there are actors that I appreciate the pretty aesthetics but I still don’t have a crush on them.

[Artemis]

Who could watch the old Star Wars and not fall for Han?

Meeee.  Like Arcadia I found him too cocky, and he annoyed me.  Luke did too.  There are very few Star Wars characters I actually like, when I think about it.  I guess I'm more intrigued by the premise.  I like Harrison Ford as an actor though.

 

And they have never extended to the actors. Real people don't interest me that way unless I know them personally. Mr B. C. is nothing to me beyond a talented man whose work I often enjoy but Sherlock... My love for Sherlock is still strong and I see no reason to do anything about that.

Same here.  I've never had a celebrity crush.  I'm not sure I've ever had a crush of any kind really, not even for someone I've known personally.  My feelings in that regard operate a bit differently from the norm (as far as I can tell).  But I do "love" certain fictional characters in my way -- Sherlock being one at the very top of the list.  I joined this forum, which says a lot, lol.  I never participate in a fandom, ever.

 

 

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Who could watch the old Star Wars and not fall for Han?

Er ... um.... me? Han's too cocky for my taste, I've always been Luke's girl.

 

 

Well, I wouldn't kick Luke out of the Falcon for eating crackers in bed either.   ;)  But I think the Han crush is really some combination of crushing on Han and Indiana Jones at the same time, so it sort of becomes a "Harrison Ford's characters" crush.

 

 

And they have never extended to the actors. Real people don't interest me that way unless I know them personally.

This is how I feel about it too. How can you crush on an actor when you can’t possibly know if their interviews really reflect the actual person and not just what they want you to believe? Don’t get me wrong, there are actors that I appreciate the pretty aesthetics but I still don’t have a crush on them.

 

 

The actors inevitably disappoint me, because almost by definition if you are attention-seeking enough to want to be on TV or in movies, we have different values and interests in life. Stage actors seem just slightly different, and I have looked admiringly at one or two who would prefer to work with a smaller audience like that. But I'm with gerry: it doesn't seem to stop me from looking at an actor and appreciating the good looks.  I just don't want to hear most of them talk.  Or, usually, see them dress themselves.  Or hear anything about their political opinions.  Just look pretty and read the script, please.   :P

[Pseudonym]

Yep, I'd agree with all that too. What I find fascinating about BC is that I don't find him all that attractive as himself (in interviews I mean, not photoshoots). I like him, I enjoy watching interviews with him, but a huge part of what makes him so sexy as Khan and Sherlock is the brooding presence... which he'd seem like a d*ck if he did as himself. 

[Arcadia]

I don't know if I've ever had an actual crush. (Well, okay, there was a guy in college ....) I read somewhere about something called an "admiration crush", I think that's what I feel/have felt about various creatives ... I seek out their work, I like to learn their views, I look at Pseud's hot gifs of them.... :smile: But I don't want to kiss them or have their babies or whatever. Ew.

[Pseudonym]

I had lots of crushes in my earlier years. Not so much now though, I think life's monotony has worn me down too much. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I have had a crush on Harrison Ford for 40 years, since the first time I saw him in Star Wars.  A couple of years ago, I realized he was my Dad's age, and, um....that feels really weird.  

 

Then again, I was talking to Dad about this, and he has a crush on Jeri Ryan (Seven of Nine from Star Trek), who is my age. I suppose as long as we keep the inter-generational crushes confined to our sci-fi, we're OK.  

 

It seems to me that people tend to mentally combine several somewhat related phenomena, and then apply their feelings about one of those phenomena to all the rest as well.

 

Incest (in the sense of having babies with a close relative) can have unfortunate results, therefore parent/child matches are not a good idea.  Parents and their children tend to have a certain age difference  But you can't follow that line of reasoning backwards, because it's not the age difference that's the problem, it's the genetic similarity.  Harrison Ford may be your father's age, but he is not your father.  Neither is Jeri Ryan your father's daughter.

 

Adults having sex with minors isn't a good idea, for any number of reasons.  When you're a young adult, it's therefore both illogical and immoral to have sex with someone who's even ten or twenty years younger than you.  Once you're middle-aged or older, however, a person twenty or more years younger than you is an adult, so there's no logical reason to apply the term "dirty old wo/man."

 

Of course, parents and their young children do quite reasonably have those attitudes, and it's very difficult to shed an ingrained attitude that you've had for decades, possibly for your entire life, even when there's no longer any logical reason to maintain it.  So it's understandable even if it's not logical.

[Boton]

 

I have had a crush on Harrison Ford for 40 years, since the first time I saw him in Star Wars.  A couple of years ago, I realized he was my Dad's age, and, um....that feels really weird.  

 

Then again, I was talking to Dad about this, and he has a crush on Jeri Ryan (Seven of Nine from Star Trek), who is my age. I suppose as long as we keep the inter-generational crushes confined to our sci-fi, we're OK.  

 

It seems to me that people tend to mentally combine several somewhat related phenomena, and then apply their feelings about one of those phenomena to all the rest as well.

 

Incest (in the sense of having babies with a close relative) can have unfortunate results, therefore parent/child matches are not a good idea.  Parents and their children tend to have a certain age difference  But you can't follow that line of reasoning backwards, because it's not the age difference that's the problem, it's the genetic similarity.  Harrison Ford may be your father's age, but he is not your father.  Neither is Jeri Ryan your father's daughter.

 

Adults having sex with minors isn't a good idea, for any number of reasons.  When you're a young adult, it's therefore both illogical and immoral to have sex with someone who's even ten or twenty years younger than you.  Once you're middle-aged or older, however, a person twenty or more years younger than you is an adult, so there's no logical reason to apply the term "dirty old wo/man."

 

Of course, parents and their young children do quite reasonably have those attitudes, and it's very difficult to shed an ingrained attitude that you've had for decades, possibly for your entire life, even when there's no longer any logical reason to maintain it.  So it's understandable even if it's not logical.

 

 

Agree with all of this.  I hadn't really taken my reaction all the way to thinking that "crush on man my dad's age = brush with incest" or anything like that, but there was a moment that I felt like having a crush on a man (or really, a collection of his characters) my father's age sort of implied I was checking out Dad's friends.  That felt weird.  (Although, hey, he actually occasionally has a hot friend, so there's that....)

 

I was amused by Dad's crush on Jeri Ryan. Dad has always appreciated pretty women in all contexts, although he is the consummate gentleman in his interactions.  Very old school in his manners, but you always know (or *I* always know) that he's noticed the pretty women half or more of his age, which at this point means that he's looking at women in their 40s with an appreciative eye.

[Pseudonym]

I would have thought most people do, it's human nature to notice someone who's attractive, even if they are older or younger than you.  

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I think most people do. It's just funny to me, because you grow up largely thinking of your parents as asexual, and then one day you realize they've been enjoying the view for years.  

[T.o.b.y]

I think most people do. It's just funny to me, because you grow up largely thinking of your parents as asexual, and then one day you realize they've been enjoying the view for years.

Oh, I never thought my parents were ace... They used to kiss pretty passionately at the kitchen window and my little ears caught the occasional grunt and giggle. It's not like I saw anything, but I remember growing up with the idea that sex was this pretty normal thing adults just did all the time, basically, including the ones I lived with.

 

I never understood why some people seemed to shy away from the idea that their parents were intimate. Duh, of course they were, at least once, where did they think they came from? Wal-Mart?

[gerry]

But I'm with gerry: it doesn't seem to stop me from looking at an actor and appreciating the good looks. I just don't want to hear most of them talk. Or, usually, see them dress themselves. Or hear anything about their political opinions. Just look pretty and read the script, please. :P

Precisely! I actually actively avoid reading/watching actor and writer interviews because it can affect the fictional experience for me, especially if you find out they’re legit bad people. I mean will you ever want to watch Kevin Spacey in anything again (assuming you did previously)? In the Top Gun/A Few Good Men era I found Tom Cruise quite attractive and thought he was a good actor. Once I found out that he’s very likely a whackadoodle, I haven’t seen a movie of his in years.

 

I haven’t particularly respected SM’s writing of women since he writes most of them as if he’s writing a frat boy sex fantasy come to life but when I read his EW interview where he tried to justify the lack of ILY call scene as Molly would have just shagged someone after, now I’ll never be able to view him as anything other than a giant sexist tool completely full of himself who only views women as sex objects. How else to explain that shag someone is the first thing that comes to his mind about that scene aftermath?

[J.P.]

This impression would probably change a little bit, if you heard him actually saying it. He tends to get defensive if pressed and his way of dealing with it is going into attack mode. And saying not the wisest things in that process. This line was meant as a joke. Sadly it backfired. And written - it sounds terrible.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I never understood why some people seemed to shy away from the idea that their parents were intimate. Duh, of course they were, at least once, where did they think they came from? Wal-Mart?

 

:lol2:   I suspect that attitude originates when the kids are at the age when sex is icky, and they can't believe that their parents would do anything that revolting.  That phase passes pretty damn quickly, of course, but only as applied to oneself and one's peers.  Also, the way a lot of parents act when their kids are around, you'd think they never heard of sex.  That may be changing, but I don't believe I ever saw my father and mother do anything more passionate than kiss each other rather perfunctorily on the cheek.

 

I haven’t particularly respected SM’s writing of women since he writes most of them as if he’s writing a frat boy sex fantasy come to life but when I read his EW interview where he tried to justify the lack of ILY call scene as Molly would have just shagged someone after, now I’ll never be able to view him as anything other than a giant sexist tool completely full of himself who only views women as sex objects. How else to explain that shag someone is the first thing that comes to his mind about that scene aftermath?

 

Uhh -- he's a man?  (But mostly what J.P. said.)

[gerry]

I don’t know JP if it would change my impression likely because I don’t know how that could ever be funny and frankly in the context of the quote it didn’t seem like he was joking. He does strike me as the kind of guy that would claim it was a joke when what he said wasn’t well received though. He was in the process of saying why that ILY call scene wasn’t a big deal at all to explain why a follow up scene wasn’t necessary. That shag quote was just a further flippant comment to add color for how just not a big deal the ILY call was to SM. Either way describing Molly in that context makes no sense given her characterization in the show which is why it’s a poor reflection on SM whether he thought he was being funny or not.

[gerry]

Uhh -- he's a man? (But mostly what J.P. said.)

Other men can accomplish writing women as something other than sex objects or describing their characters without mentioning sex when asked about how a scene is written especially when the scene in question had nothing to do with sex. I doubt it’s because he’s a man but more because he’s SM.

[Pseudonym]

I don't have much of an opinion on SM one way or the other, and I hadn't heard that quote before. But I have to agree that saying she would just go and shag someone is pretty ridiculous. It doesn't fit Molly's characterisation, I'm pretty sure she would have been devastated after that phone call, and what exactly is going out and finding someone to shag supposed to accomplish? Sex cures all ills, does it? 

Personally the lack of a follow up scene never bothered me. I just assume that Sherlock went to explain, told her he did what he did because he thought he was saving her life, and Molly would still be crushed but would of course forgive him. Out of the missing scenes that I think actually are important and that I do want to see the Molly one is not that high on my list. Maybe it's because I like Molly but her relationship with Sherlock isn't really that interesting to me. I'm much more interested in his interactions with John. 

[gerry]

There are already plenty of scenes with John though over the four series so that there wasn’t anything missing which would be necessary to help explain the montage. Can you say the same for Molly? Or Eurus for that matter?

 

The follow up scene for me wouldn’t be about forgiveness, it would be about why Molly would want to be friends with someone who doesn’t love her the way she loves him which should be obvious to her from the ILY call since Sherlock clearly didn’t want to say ILY to her. How could either just pretend Molly didn’t say ILY and the kind of love she meant by it? You would think it should have some effect on their relationship going forward but yet you’re supposed to believe she’s happily walking into the flat without a care in the world. Something was definitely missing to bridge the gap.

 

But yes if you don’t care about Molly that much then you wouldn’t care if that scene exists or if her being in the montage made sense given the events before it in the episode. Given that EW interviewer specifically questioned SM about it and how defensive SM was about the topic, I’d imagine it wasn’t an isolated complaint.