Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[T.o.b.y]

 

Speaking of which, what do you guys think will happen in regards to Sherlock's exile in season 4? Do you think he will get an immediate pardon when the plane lands and he agrees to help deal with Moriarty, or do you think they'll keep the threat of exile hanging over his head all season if he doesn't solve the problem (or maybe even the threat of "You still have a plane waiting for you, this is just a stay of execution")?

 

Before series 3, my head would have been buzzing with theories and ideas on how this interesting bit of a problem would fit into the next episodes and how they would solve it. Now, however, I am quite sure we'll never hear about it again and it will be like it never existed.

[mnfe]

I just rewatched TEH (Yay for US premiere!) and it sure was different seeing Mary after having watched HLV. 

 

I thought she just really took a liking to Sherlock the first watching, but now I see she relates to him and his subterfuge with her past.  The other thing that really stood out when he is reading her is in addition to the word "liar", there was also "disillusioned" and "guardian".  It really makes me wonder what she did for the CIA, what she did freelance, and how those words play into it.  My guess is she got disillusioned with the CIA but Guardian?  Maybe she met and helped John initially because she was hired by Mycroft to protect him in case something went wrong with taking down Moriarty's network?

 

As for shooting Sherlock, anything less than a fatal looking shot (like in the knee or something) would give a still alive Magnussen more info to use in his power plays.  He would have another hold over Mary and more insight into both her relationship with John and her/John's relationship to Sherlock.  She made it look like she didn't care.  And maybe she really didn't, but if it looked like she DID care, that is something dangerous to reveal to a man like CAM.  Just another thought on the whole thing.

[BLS_Pro]

 

/>

I would like to ask a question about CAM's "magic glasses."

 

Sherlock thought he was reading detailed personal information via these glasses. (Hands up all those who suspected he had magic glasses. Yeah, Sherlock, just you. Surely most of us thought he was using a memory system, just as Sherlock himself does.) However, Sherlock knows CAM doesn't store any information on computers. So what does he think he is reading it from?

 

For CAM to have a device in his glasses which allowed him to read information, wouldn't that information have to be stored online?

 

Maybe someone with a better grasp of technology can explain.

I thought they wee 'Google Glass' from the moment he originally put them on while talking at his summoning. It's a new technology and I thought it would be an interesting thing for them to play with. They aren't 'magic' glasses, they are a real product.

 

While Sherlock does mention a '4G' connection, which would mean net access, he also mentions a USB device and things like that. Something where the information might be stored directly to the glasses themselves.

I do know they are not magic. Didn't think Sherlock had turned in Harry Potter!

 

My point is, one of the first things Sherlock tells John is that CAM stores nothing on computers. At this point, he thinks all the blackmail material is stored in the vaults under Appledore. So how does he think CAM can access this physical information by his "google glasses"? Wouldn't it have to be held on a computer in some form or other? For instance, if your info was stored in a box file, you couldn't look at it from a distance through an electronic device, could you? Surely it would have to be in digital form.

 

We are obviously meant to think they are special glasses, hence the deliberate polishing, but why would Sherlock think that, if he believes all the info is in physical form? He uses a memory system himself all the time, so it seems logical that he would guess that CAM was doing the same. It would not necessarily mean the material did not physically exist in the vaults, it would just mean CAM could recall it accurately at will. At least it would work, which is more than the glasses would unless CAM had suddenly decided to computerise his information.

 

Sherlock says CAM is smart

 

"[it's] the Alexandria Library of secrets and scandals.  And none of it is on a computer.  He's smart.  Computers can be hacked.  It's all on hard copy, in vaults, underneath that house."

 

These are obviously all deductions based on information Sherlock has somehow acquired.  And I say these are deductions because we know for a fact that there are no hard copies of most of the stuff and there are no vaults underneath the house.  So presumably the conclusion that none of it is on a computer is based on similar deductions - deductions Sherlock also comes to conclude were wrong because he has seen CAM "reading" files and, with this additional fact, surmises CAM has not been as "smart" as Sherlock first deduced.

Of course when Sherlock tests his deduction - claiming CAM has been "careless" - Sherlock learns that he has, as CAM puts it, "underestimated" CAM.  In other words, Sherlock learns part of his original deduction was right.  He learns CAM did not put any of it on a computer, but kept it in his mind instead.

 

 

 

[Slithytove]

/>

 

 

 

/>

I would like to ask a question about CAM's "magic glasses."

 

Sherlock thought he was reading detailed personal information via these glasses. (Hands up all those who suspected he had magic glasses. Yeah, Sherlock, just you. Surely most of us thought he was using a memory system, just as Sherlock himself does.) However, Sherlock knows CAM doesn't store any information on computers. So what does he think he is reading it from?

 

For CAM to have a device in his glasses which allowed him to read information, wouldn't that information have to be stored online?

 

Maybe someone with a better grasp of technology can explain.

I thought they wee 'Google Glass' from the moment he originally put them on while talking at his summoning. It's a new technology and I thought it would be an interesting thing for them to play with. They aren't 'magic' glasses, they are a real product.

 

While Sherlock does mention a '4G' connection, which would mean net access, he also mentions a USB device and things like that. Something where the information might be stored directly to the glasses themselves.

I do know they are not magic. Didn't think Sherlock had turned in Harry Potter!

 

My point is, one of the first things Sherlock tells John is that CAM stores nothing on computers. At this point, he thinks all the blackmail material is stored in the vaults under Appledore. So how does he think CAM can access this physical information by his "google glasses"? Wouldn't it have to be held on a computer in some form or other? For instance, if your info was stored in a box file, you couldn't look at it from a distance through an electronic device, could you? Surely it would have to be in digital form.

 

We are obviously meant to think they are special glasses, hence the deliberate polishing, but why would Sherlock think that, if he believes all the info is in physical form? He uses a memory system himself all the time, so it seems logical that he would guess that CAM was doing the same. It would not necessarily mean the material did not physically exist in the vaults, it would just mean CAM could recall it accurately at will. At least it would work, which is more than the glasses would unless CAM had suddenly decided to computerise his information.

Sherlock says CAM is smart

 

"[it's] the Alexandria Library of secrets and scandals. And none of it is on a computer. He's smart. Computers can be hacked. It's all on hard copy, in vaults, underneath that house."

 

These are obviously all deductions based on information Sherlock has somehow acquired. And I say these are deductions because we know for a fact that there are no hard copies of most of the stuff and there are no vaults underneath the house. So presumably the conclusion that none of it is on a computer is based on similar deductions - deductions Sherlock also comes to conclude were wrong because he has seen CAM "reading" files and, with this additional fact, surmises CAM has not been as "smart" as Sherlock first deduced.

Of course when Sherlock tests his deduction - claiming CAM has been "careless" - Sherlock learns that he has, as CAM puts it, "underestimated" CAM. In other words, Sherlock learns part of his original deduction was right. He learns CAM did not put any of it on a computer, but kept it in his mind instead.

 

 

Or maybe he tried something more hands-on than deducing. Like hacking. That could lead him to the conclusion that the info is not stored online, at least.

 

Personally, I think Sherlock would have been the last person to be taken in by the idea that CAM was reading. After all, he also acts in an odd way when accessing his mind palace. CAM looks like he is reading, Sherlock looks like he is scrolling through information, particularly during THOB but also in TRF. You would think that someone so bright might have seen the similarity.

[BLS_Pro]

Or maybe he tried something more hands-on than deducing. Like hacking. That could lead him to the conclusion that the info is not stored online, at least.

Indeed. Since the episode never identifies what facts led Sherlock to his conclusion, I simply pointed out what the script revealed he had deduced, not by what method he had made his deduction.

 

Personally, I think Sherlock would have been the last person to be taken in by the idea that CAM was reading. After all, he also acts in an odd way when accessing his mind palace. CAM looks like he is reading, Sherlock looks like he is scrolling through information, particularly during THOB but also in TRF. You would think that someone so bright might have seen the similarity.

I agree, though the fact that Sherlock believes (for some unstated reason) that a physical vault exists, he has this unnamed reason for thinking CAM needed a physical vault in order to retain the all the information That, combined with CAMs decidedly non-intellectual - ie very physical - way of expressing his "ownership" of others, is likely supposed to excuse Sherlock from making the Mind Vault deduction too early.

 

I think this is just another example of poor writing for Sherlock this series, akin to neither Sherlock or Mycroft even thinking about a terrorist connection to Guy Fawkes until after CAM hands them that clue on a silver platter in HEARSE.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... I simply pointed out what the script revealed he had deduced, not by what method he had made his deduction.

 

I am puzzled by your references to "the script," RadCap.  Are the scripts for the Series 3 episodes available somewhere?  Or are you referring to the dialog?  Or am I missing something?

 

[T.o.b.y]

*Sigh* Oh I wish the scripts were sold in book form. I would really love to see the directions for some scenes, the "look like this and act like that" bits.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Ariane does do some of that in her postings. She's always an interesting read.

[BLS_Pro]

/>

 

... I simply pointed out what the script revealed he had deduced, not by what method he had made his deduction.

I am puzzled by your references to "the script," RadCap. Are the scripts for the Series 3 episodes available somewhere? Or are you referring to the dialog? Or am I missing something?

Unfortunately I have not seen any actual scripts in public. Like toby I only wish they existed.

 

I use the term script to cover action, settings, props, and dialogue etc which we see on screen - as opposed to suppositions made about any and all such things.

[T.o.b.y]

I use the term script to cover action, settings, props, and dialogue etc which we see on screen - as opposed to suppositions made about any and all such things.

 

Oh, but it is sometimes so hard to draw the line between observation and interpretation. What seems obvious to one person can be completely foggy to the next. I am always surprised when I read other people's thoughts on the exact same 90 minutes which I have just watched (often, I admit, for the umpteenth time) and they turn out to be completely different from my own. Yeah, of course we can all agree on what words are spoken by whom when (if not before, then after the availability of DVDs and subtitles), but when it comes to what they mean, the fun begins...

 

There is an awful lot to discover in "Sherlock" and I've found the show actually improves on thinking (and discussing) about it a bit too hard once in a while.

[Caya]

A behind the scenes pic of the Holmes family:

 

 

(source)

 

It's amazing how much they look alike. Well how much Mark Gatiss fits in, to be precise .

[T.o.b.y]

Awww! I love that! I love Sherlock's "camera face", that stern "I don't want my picture taken and will look as dignified and defiant as I can in protest" expression.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Ariane does do some of that in her postings. She's always an interesting read.

 

True, she does include a lot of the "stage directions."  But we do need to bear in mind that she's working from exactly the same materials that we are, the finished episodes themselves.  She has no special access to any Hartswood or BBC materials.  As far as I know, her transcripts are the best resource available, and she's very, very good (though not quite 100% infallible) with the dialog.  But while I enjoy reading her "stage directions," they do sometimes venture into personal opinion and wishful thinking.

 

Maybe we should petition somebody (Hartswood? the BBC?) to publish the shooting scripts.  I know the BBC has posted the "Blind Banker" script on their website, so apparently there's no reason why they couldn't make the others available as well.  Moftiss mentioned in the "Hounds" DVD commentary that they might publish them sometime.  I'd be perfectly willing to pay for a volume per series, well bound so the pages don't fall out with heavy use.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... it is sometimes so hard to draw the line between observation and interpretation.

Especially with body language, facial expressions, and tones of voice, I think. (Just look at all the various interpretations of John's attitude during his supposed last conversation with Sherlock.)  But fortunately, most other things are pretty concrete, or we'd never get anywhere in these discussions!

 

Love that Holmes family portrait!

 

[BLS_Pro]

Especially with body language, facial expressions, and tones of voice, I think. (Just look at all the various interpretations of John's attitude during his supposed last conversation with Sherlock.)

Yes. Consider Mary's dialogue in HEARSE when John is about to shave his mustache. If one looks at just the words as written, they could have been very confrontational and indicative of a spat or fight. Instead the actress delivered them in a loving and teasing manner. So the actor can definitely transform a scene. And that's when it gets fun.

[BLS_Pro]

INFORMATION IS POWER

BTW - I'm certain this has probably been noted elsewhere by someone, but this is the first opportunity I've had to post a picture of something I noticed when first viewing the episode.  Nothing like a "subtle" theme, eh? 

Subliminal indeed.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

As anyone checked Sherlockology for possible available scripts? They do have a store.

[Slithytove]

/>

I just rewatched TEH (Yay for US premiere!) and it sure was different seeing Mary after having watched HLV.

 

I thought she just really took a liking to Sherlock the first watching, but now I see she relates to him and his subterfuge with her past. The other thing that really stood out when he is reading her is in addition to the word "liar", there was also "disillusioned" and "guardian". It really makes me wonder what she did for the CIA, what she did freelance, and how those words play into it. My guess is she got disillusioned with the CIA but Guardian? Maybe she met and helped John initially because she was hired by Mycroft to protect him in case something went wrong with taking down Moriarty's network?

 

As for shooting Sherlock, anything less than a fatal looking shot (like in the knee or something) would give a still alive Magnussen more info to use in his power plays. He would have another hold over Mary and more insight into both her relationship with John and her/John's relationship to Sherlock. She made it look like she didn't care. And maybe she really didn't, but if it looked like she DID care, that is something dangerous to reveal to a man like CAM. Just another thought on the whole thing.

I assumed that she was a disillusioned Lib Dem voter and a reader of The Guardian, as that is what it seems to say, but I would not put it past them to use double meanings.

 

As for Mary shooting Sherlock, I would have thought that she had given him a far greater hold over her by making him a witness to attempted murder. Not only does he know she kills, now he has seen her do it.

[Slithytove]

By "him", I meant CAM, of course, not Sherlock.

[leanne_maybe]

Lol, I also assumed that 'disillusioned' had to be linked to 'lib dem voter' - how could it not?!

[Carol the Dabbler]

INFORMATION IS POWER

 

BTW - I'm certain this has probably been noted elsewhere by someone, but this is the first opportunity I've had to post a picture of something I noticed when first viewing the episode.  Nothing like a "subtle" theme, eh? 

 

hammering the point.jpg

Subliminal indeed.

 

 

 

Ooh, neat how they created that message by having the top poster start to peel off a bit, revealing one word on an older layer underneath.  I should know this (I mean, how often do we see John with a car?), but what scene is that from?

[BLS_Pro]

/>

 

 

INFORMATION IS POWER

 

BTW - I'm certain this has probably been noted elsewhere by someone, but this is the first opportunity I've had to post a picture of something I noticed when first viewing the episode. Nothing like a "subtle" theme, eh?

 

hammering the point.jpg

Subliminal indeed.

 

 

Ooh, neat how they created that message by having the top poster start to peel off a bit, revealing one word on an older layer underneath. I should know this (I mean, how often do we see John with a car?), but what scene is that from?

It's when John is pulling out the tire iron as he is about to storm into the drug den.

[Carol the Dabbler]

As anyone checked Sherlockology for possible available scripts? They do have a store.

 

Last time I checked, they were selling "Sherlockology" items (T-shirts, etc.), Undershaw fundraisers, and some Sherlock items from the BBC.  If and when scripts are made available, the BBC will presumably have them first, and I take their recent venture into Sherlock T-shirts as a welcome sign that they're starting to respond to fan interest.

 

The BBC has already published a few Sherlock-related books (Sherlock: The Casebook and some Conan Doyle reprints with Cumberbatch and Freeman on the covers), so if they know that there's sufficient fan interest, they might release the scripts as well.  The original word-processing files are presumably still available, so they'd hardly need to do anything more than run off some extra copies (though for mass-market appeal, they could add an intro and an eye-catching cover, roughly what was involved in the aforementioned reprints).

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Thank you, Carol.

[Philiophobic Genius]

I don't understand, how do you possibly bring back Moriarty. I still get Sherlock's fake death. But, if it is in-fact Moriarty who is coming back and not some impostor; how the hell do you bring back a man who shot himself in the mouth? How do you cheat death then? There was blood, so it can't be a blank shot, and he couldn't survived, because he blew his Brains out not a random organ. I do want the real Moriarty to come back, but I fail to see how. It would be interesting to see how they pull it off.  ^_^