Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[leanne_maybe]

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When Sherlock meets Mary at Leinster Gardens, did I hear right? Did he say he won the dummy houses from the Clarence House Cannibal?

 

Surely...surely not Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall? Or even better, the late Queen Mother?

 

Oh, I wish.....

I thought in canon, it was Watson who was the gambler? Or have I remembered that wrong? I wonder if they will do anything with that in this show? Of course, the idea of him being 'addicted to excitement/danger' can fit in with a gambling personality.

[BLS_Pro]

RadCap,the script could suggest that Sherlock knew Magnusson could access his vaults mentally, not that there are no physical vaults at Appledore. So there are a lot of ways for the writers to go with it,and I am happy to agree to disagree while they do,as the mods requested.

Thank you for acknowledging what I've been claiming has been in the script all along - ie Sherlock's recognition that CAM was not reading physical or digital, but in fact mental files.  In other words, that Sherlock recognized, as you put it, CAM "could access his vaults mentally".  Of course that fact alone was not how the script revealed Sherlock's deduction about any physical vaults and his consequent plans, including the killing of CAM.  As I explicitly stated, if you wanted the rest of what you demanded - quotes from the script which show all that I've been claiming - I would be happy to provide them.

 

However, you've indicated you prefer to agree to disagree instead.  So I'll simply leave as read the proof that all the rest of my claims were as validly supported in the script as this one - and walk away as you request.

[Zain]

Mofftiss and Co does seem very happy with this Fandom and doesn't mind letting our collective imaginations run rampant. I don't think I have ever been a part of such an active one nor one that the shows producers actually took notice of and played with...except maybe Star Trek.

 

To be honest, I think they are very happy to have a fandom.

Sherlock came out of nowhere back in 2010. Well, not nowhere, but it was one of many adaptions. And it kind of has become the adaption.

I mean... yes, I am sure Moffat and Gatiss hoped that their adaption would be well-received. But I doubt they expected more than a polite "yes, you did well" and maybe a re-run the year after.

 

So I suppose that's why they take the fandom more serious than other writers do.

[leanne_maybe]

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RadCap,the script could suggest that Sherlock knew Magnusson could access his vaults mentally, not that there are no physical vaults at Appledore. So there are a lot of ways for the writers to go with it,and I am happy to agree to disagree while they do,as the mods requested.

Thank you for acknowledging what I've been claiming has been in the script all along - ie Sherlock's recognition that CAM was not reading physical or digital, but in fact mental files. In other words, that Sherlock recognized, as you put it, CAM "could access his vaults mentally". Of course that fact alone was not how the script revealed Sherlock's deduction about any physical vaults and his consequent plans, including the killing of CAM. As I explicitly stated, if you wanted the rest of what you demanded - quotes from the script which show all that I've been claiming - I would be happy to provide them.

 

However, you've indicated you prefer to agree to disagree instead. So I'll simply leave as read the proof that all the rest of my claims were as validly supported in the script as this one - and walk away as you request.

I said 'could' ;-) but don't worry, i'll stop using your 'pressure point' now and just remind you it is a TV show, not real, so let's not take it too seriously...

[BLS_Pro]

 

I said 'could' ;-) but don't worry, i'll stop using your 'pressure point' now and just remind you it is a TV show, not real, so let's not take it too seriously...

 

So not walking away after all, but instead making an argument (among other things). 

 

Okay. 

 

By saying "could" you are claiming that the script may be indicating CAM is reading something other than a physical or digital or mental file.  What other option are you claiming exists for the script to be having CAM read?  Remember, while it is just a TV show, it isn't a science fiction TV show (like Moffat's other big hit), so lets keep things in the realm of the facts of reality, shall we?  In other words, no wibbly wobbly timey whimey stuff allowed.  Sorry...

 

[leanne_maybe]

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I said 'could' ;-) but don't worry, i'll stop using your 'pressure point' now and just remind you it is a TV show, not real, so let's not take it too seriously...

 

So not walking away after all, but instead making an argument (among other things).

 

Okay.

 

By saying "could" you are claiming that the script may be indicating CAM is reading something other than a physical or digital or mental file. What other option are you claiming exists for the script to be having CAM read? Remember, while it is just a TV show, it isn't a science fiction TV show (like Moffat's other big hit), so lets keep things in the realm of reality...

 

:-) I am in the realm of reality. IE, not arguing over a TV show. Just chill :-)

[T.o.b.y]

 

I thought in canon, it was Watson who was the gambler? Or have I remembered that wrong? I wonder if they will do anything with that in this show? Of course, the idea of him being 'addicted to excitement/danger' can fit in with a gambling personality.

 

There are hints that he had a gambling problem, yes, but those are rather vague. In "The Dancing Men", it is mentioned that his check-book was kept locked in Holmes' drawer and Holmes had the key, from which some readers have inferred that Watson was prone to spend his money unwisely and / or might have gambled. I don't remember reading any story where he admits to either, though (why would he). I think he was portrayed as a gambler in one or several of the older film adaptations.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Didn't Sherlock do a light betting during "Silver Blaze"? Heading into canon now.

[abductive.reasoning]

A brilliant episode, which somehow managed to impress me despite my expectations being really high. Moffat, you did good.

 

I was a bit disappointed that Magnussen only appeared for one episode (or does he?) but that's irrelevant. A good villain, although nothing villain-wise tops Moriarty.

 

Sherlock and Mycroft smoking?! 

[Caya]

Hello abductive.reasoning and welcome to the forum!

 

Now that you mention it, didn't Mycroft claim in Scandal that he didn't smoke? But maybe he's on and off smoking just like dieting .

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Maybe he was trying to depress his appetite before Christmas dinner?

[Karie]

Well, he did say it wasn't "agreeing" with him, and Sherlock mentioned that he needed low tar and still smoked "like a beginner".  If he only smokes very rarely, it would make sense that his tolerance is much lower. 

[mangopony]

I've not been on the forum to post for a few days (feels like a lifetime!!!) but I've been keeping up to date on this topic through email. My my, aren't we a passionate bunch! I think it's wonderful that a show can still inspire such controversy and debate - far better than listening to people talk about Big Brother or X-Factor!!

 

Having rewatched the episode I love it even more now and it's put to rest a few issues/concerns I had with SoT.

 

First of all - Sherlock flirting with Janine didn't sit right with me at the wedding so I was glad to see it was all a ruse (even if it was a bit cruel - although she got her own back and didn't seem to gutted so it's all good!). I saw on here a discussion about whether they'd slept together or not (the thought of which again didn't sit right - Sherlock: a sexual character??) but during their discussion she says "Just once would have been nice" to which he replies "I was waiting until we were married" so again, my anxieties were appeased.

 

Secondly, I was worried after SoT that having openly declared their feelings to each other that John and Sherlock's relationship might have lost something (I loved the unspoken subtlety of it in earlier episodes) but having Sherlock "disappear" for a month worked well. He looked so lonely and dejected as he left the wedding (still breaks my heart to think about it ) so it makes sense that he would have left the happy couple to it afterwards. He seemed to realise when he told Mary she was pregnant that they wouldn't "need" him anymore so off he went. That naturally peeved John and they were back to the prickly bickering which they do so well! Feels like it's all back to normal.

 

Finally, Moriarty's return. I understand some people's trepidation with this but I'm mega excited to see how they explain it.

 

And as for the references to the show possibly "jumping the shark" - I don't think it will. Everything in the past has been so meticulously considered that I don't think they can ruin it. Mofftiss is, first and foremost, a Sherlock fan and they won't want to ruin it for themselves so I don't think they'll ever discredit it by using desperate storylines.

 

The last thing I want to say is that I read a review on the Metro website (can't upload the link for some reason) and it summed up the series in a way that made total sense to me and also I think explains why some people perhaps feel uneasy with it. It says: "John has moved on with his life, and to a degree Sherlock is thus on the back-foot for the entirety of the third series, embracing the addition of Mary into the social circle without hesitation, but as a result having to constantly adapt to a shifting set of circumstances. It could even be interpreted that in this series the orbit has subtly shifted from John orbiting Sherlock, to Sherlock orbiting John."

 

Makes a lot of sense to me.

[cumberholmes]

 

 Since the beginning of the season I've noticed a distracted Sherlock, don't you?

 

What do you mean by that? Unfocused? Unsure of himself? Somewhat unstable? That would all make sense. When he came back, he was certainly "out of it" and had trouble adjusting to the changes in his little world plus getting over all he had been through. Then at the wedding, he was out of his depths, except for the brief moment when he got to solve a murder. And then came Magnussen and the shock about Mary. Poor Sherlock. It doesn't look like there will be any kind of peace for him soon, but then, he wouldn't want that, would he. He needs strife and peril.

 

 

Yep unfocused !, oh yes poor Sherlock, he may take some time to adapt to changes

[cumberholmes]

You're right. I regained my self-control and saw the chapter one more time but with peace of mind and I could see more clearly that Sherlock was using her. I must be honest, that overjoyed me (sorry for Janine), although she still disgusts me. About Moriarty,  I'm anxious to see how they explain it. Oh yes!! when he left the wedding I felt bad for him  . I wonder how it will evolve the relationship between Sherlock and John. What will be the role of Mary among them.

I was not surprised to know that Molly is no longer going to marry, it was so obvious. It was pretty weird to see her boyfriend dressed as Sherlock... if anyone had any doubts about Molly's feelings toward him, that choice dispelled any doubts. I liked the slaps she gave to Sherlock, she was so angry! 

[Slithytove]

I would like to ask a question about CAM's "magic glasses."

 

Sherlock thought he was reading detailed personal information via these glasses. (Hands up all those who suspected he had magic glasses. Yeah, Sherlock, just you. Surely most of us thought he was using a memory system, just as Sherlock himself does.) However, Sherlock knows CAM doesn't store any information on computers. So what does he think he is reading it from?

 

For CAM to have a device in his glasses which allowed him to read information, wouldn't that information have to be stored online?

 

Maybe someone with a better grasp of technology can explain.

[Janie]

It wasn't just Sherlock. I thought it was the glasses, too. 

 

But for your question, I don't know. Maybe he thought he had some kind of chip in it. 

[T.o.b.y]

I would like to ask a question about CAM's "magic glasses."

 

Sherlock thought he was reading detailed personal information via these glasses. (Hands up all those who suspected he had magic glasses. Yeah, Sherlock, just you. Surely most of us thought he was using a memory system, just as Sherlock himself does.) However, Sherlock knows CAM doesn't store any information on computers. So what does he think he is reading it from?

 

For CAM to have a device in his glasses which allowed him to read information, wouldn't that information have to be stored online?

 

I never thought about any of that! As always, I guess I was much too busy watching Sherlock's eyes and various other features...

 

As in the original stories there's not a ton of realism at work in "Sherlock" and the logic of things is often a bit flawed. I don't mind if it's not too blatant - I care more for the "poetic" side of things. But it is very funny when you think about it.

 

[mangopony]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just got an email from Amazon telling me that by Series 3 Blu-Rays of Sherlock have been dispatched!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Loekie]

Every one has their headcanon....and if you ship Sherlolly....I have no problem with that. Though he did mention the fact that she was no longer engaged to Tom while she was slapping him around and dressing him down for being stupid and why was he risking his greatest gift, which is in canon...but it was Watson doing the yelling...and while Watson didn't hit Holmes he may have wanted to. Yay for Molly!

 

  But anyway...he said he was thankful that she wasn't wearing the ring while in the process of hitting him. One might think he would have noticed that if they were sleeping together and wouldn't have needed to deduce it in front of John and Billy....but then....that's just me and my take on it. Ship away.

 

Yes, the engagement with Tom is over! - thanks for telling me, I had not noticed it -  The only reason can be that Molly had had what she wanted from Sherlock.

Please mr. Moffat, give us a romantic love scene with Molly and Sherlock?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Sherlock may have thought that Magnussen was reading files from his glasses because there are glasses that have wireless capabilities. And if anyone can afford streamlined ones, it would be Magnussen. No magic required.

[aely]

To bring up something I don't think has been discussed yet...

 

Did anyone else notice John channeling Sherlock in that first scene with Isaac's mom? He didn't think to let her in the door until Mary told him, he couldn't be arsed to remember who, exactly, Isaac was (he thought it was her husband), he cut right to the point of "no, WHERE is he, what's the address?" when she was trying to explain the situation. I thought this was very interesting that John, when Sherlock is not around and he's been missing that lifestyle, becomes more like Sherlock himself. 

 

Part of that is probably the doctor thing. When you're a doctor, you only get so long to speak to each patient and you don't have time to let them talk all around the houses when you need to find out what the specific problem is with them so John will be used to having to get to the point of something, cutting a potentially long ramble down to the essential and relevant factors.

 

He's probably more polite about it usually, though.

[Ally.C]

I would like to ask a question about CAM's "magic glasses."

 

Sherlock thought he was reading detailed personal information via these glasses. (Hands up all those who suspected he had magic glasses. Yeah, Sherlock, just you. Surely most of us thought he was using a memory system, just as Sherlock himself does.) However, Sherlock knows CAM doesn't store any information on computers. So what does he think he is reading it from?

 

For CAM to have a device in his glasses which allowed him to read information, wouldn't that information have to be stored online?

 

Maybe someone with a better grasp of technology can explain.

 

I thought they wee 'Google Glass' from the moment he originally put them on while talking at his summoning. It's a new technology and I thought it would be an interesting thing for them to play with. They aren't 'magic' glasses, they are a real product. 

 

While Sherlock does mention a '4G' connection, which would mean net access, he also mentions a USB device and things like that. Something where the information might be stored directly to the glasses themselves. 

[Loekie]

Everytime Magnussen did a 'reading', he put on his glasses. Maybe he was lying about his exceptional memory. Why would he tell the truth? Also Moriarty had an unbelievable story about a computercode, remember?

 

I don't understand why Mary had a exceptional memory too. Anyone?

[Ally.C]

I've been making a bit of a list, because I've been very interested in the parallels between His Last Vow and A Study in Pink. As has been mentioned before, there is a bit of worry with where the series will go from here. Will it keep getting bigger and more showy? Soap opera? Or will they be able to reign it back in. I noticed some of these parallels and it's made me think if this is supposed to be a sign of full-circle. Now, what that means is up to interpretation.

 

• In both episodes Sherlock uses the infamous 'sociopath' line
• In both episodes there is a drugs bust where Anderson volunteers (let's all love the development of Anderson here, yes?)
• In ASiP Sally mentions one day there will be a crime scene and Sherlock will have put the body there, in HLV this becomes true (it was also true of TRF)
• In both episodes Sherlock has calm discussions with his enemy across a table
• In ASiP Mycroft says "You can imagine the Christmas dinners", in HLV we see Christmas dinner
• In ASiP we hear about 'upsetting mummy', in HLV we hear Mummy Holmes upset
• IN ASiP Mycroft says he worries constantly about Sherlock, in HLV we have "Oh Sherlock, what have you done?" and "Your loss would break my heart)
• In ASiP John shoots the cabbie to save Sherlock's life, in HLV Sherlock shoots CAM to save John's life
• The staircase in Sherlock's Mind Palace is nearly identical to the staircase from the building where the pink woman was pound
• The hallway and door entered to find Redbeard in Sherlock's Mind Palace is the hallway and door from the building the cabbie takes him to that John looks into
• Sherlock deduces the cabbie is a proper genius - like him, CAM has a Mind Palace - like him
• At the end of ASiP we get the first mentions of Moriarty, at the end of HLV we get 'Did you miss me?'
• In ASiP John and Sherlock meet outside Baker St for the first time nd shake hands, in HLV they part with a handshake
• In both episodes there are references to Sherlock being/having been an addict
• In ASiP Sherlock is using nicotine patches, in HLV he is smoking
• In ASiP Sherlock lures John out by mentioning it'll be dangerous, in HLV he mentions danger in the hopes of getting John to help him
• In ASiP Sherlock says girlfriend aren't his area, in HLV John is gobsmacked at Janine
• In regards to Mary, in ASiP the cabbie asks if it's a bluff, a double bluff, or a triple bluff - a question the fandom is now facing in regards to Mrs Watson

That's what I have for now... any input?